Pedestal Table Joinery

[Roy Lindberry]

I'm looking to build a 3 legged pedestal table and was wondering about the best way to join the post to the table top.

What methods have you guys used and found both successful and attractive? If you have pictures that would be awesome.

Thanks in advance.

[Matt Evans]

I haven't built one, but have repaired several. No pictures, but every doweled or tenoned one that I have repaired has come apart. I replace them with a sliding dovetail, which is the way I would build one myself.

The downward force put on the legs really needs the mechanical strength of the dovetail, in my opinion.

You can either do them the way i do the repairs, which is to cut a really thick "butterfly" or double sided dovetail key, and then cut the female dovetails into the legs and the center, or cut the male dovetail on the leg, and the female part on the center.

[Andrew Gibson]

If you are building a tea table, the kind with ball and claw feet and a pie crust top, I think they used a hinge called a bird cage to attach the top the the post. I can't find a good pic of one on google but I know there is a wooden key that locks the top in its horizontal position. when the key is removed the top can tilt down to a vertical position when not in use.

Gee I have seen how they work on a few TV shows but now I can't remember which ones... and I can't really remember how exactly they work.

[Roy Lindberry]

I haven't built one, but have repaired several. No pictures, but every doweled or tenoned one that I have repaired has come apart. I replace them with a sliding dovetail, which is the way I would build one myself.

The downward force put on the legs really needs the mechanical strength of the dovetail, in my opinion.

You can either do them the way i do the repairs, which is to cut a really thick "butterfly" or double sided dovetail key, and then cut the female dovetails into the legs and the center, or cut the male dovetail on the leg, and the female part on the center.

Thanks.

I do plan to attach the legs with sliding dovetails. It is the table top connection that I'm not sure about. I simple tenon does not seem like enough strength, and I don't thing a through tenon would look very good.

Perhaps securing a smaller diameter circle to the bottom, and boring a hole for a tenon in that? I'm just not sure what would be both strong and attractive.

[Roy Lindberry]

If you are building a tea table, the kind with ball and claw feet and a pie crust top, I think they used a hinge called a bird cage to attach the top the the post. I can't find a good pic of one on google but I know there is a wooden key that locks the top in its horizontal position. when the key is removed the top can tilt down to a vertical position when not in use.

Gee I have seen how they work on a few TV shows but now I can't remember which ones... and I can't really remember how exactly they work.

Thanks for the input, though I wasn't planning on doing the tea table. However, it could still solve my dilemma.

[Frank Drew]

Perhaps securing a smaller diameter circle to the bottom, and boring a hole for a tenon in that? I'm just not sure what would be both strong and attractive.

That's the way I'd go -- stub through tenon into a disc somewhat smaller than the top, which is then screwed into the top. If the grains are aligned and the woods the same (or similar in terms of expansion/contraction potential) you won't need to slot-screw the outer screws since both boards should move together. If you want to make the underneath disc a bit more attractive (although who's going to see it?), you could bevel or round over the edge.

[David Keller NC]

Thanks.

I do plan to attach the legs with sliding dovetails. It is the table top connection that I'm not sure about. I simple tenon does not seem like enough strength, and I don't thing a through tenon would look very good.

Perhaps securing a smaller diameter circle to the bottom, and boring a hole for a tenon in that? I'm just not sure what would be both strong and attractive.

I've never seen an authentic tilt-top tea table or candlestand that wasn't tenoned into a post block, that was then either hinged or attached with a wooden pintle to the actual round or square top. The birdcage option is a fancier way to do this (though similar in construction) that allows the table top to rotate around the axis of the post, as will as tilt 90 degrees for storage.

Generally speaking, I'd discourage you from actually tenoning the post into the table top itself - unless your top is very, very thick, there's not enough mechanical strength to resist the leverage of placing an item on the perimeter of the top - the tenon would likely work loose over a short period of time.

By adding a post block, you substantially thicken the joint, which will give the joint sufficient strength to avoid workign the post loose.

[Bill Houghton]

That's the way I'd go -- stub through tenon into a disc somewhat smaller than the top, which is then screwed into the top. If the grains are aligned and the woods the same (or similar in terms of expansion/contraction potential) you won't need to slot-screw the outer screws since both boards should move together. If you want to make the underneath disc a bit more attractive (although who's going to see it?), you could bevel or round over the edge.

Question on this: as I've thought about it for my own table designs (so far fantasy - my time goes to working on the house), it's occurred to me that slotting and wedging the tenon after it's installed in the disc would add strength. Does this make sense, is it overkill, or will it fail in some way I haven't thought about?

[Roy Lindberry]

I've never seen an authentic tilt-top tea table or candlestand that wasn't tenoned into a post block, that was then either hinged or attached with a wooden pintle to the actual round or square top. The birdcage option is a fancier way to do this (though similar in construction) that allows the table top to rotate around the axis of the post, as will as tilt 90 degrees for storage.

Generally speaking, I'd discourage you from actually tenoning the post into the table top itself - unless your top is very, very thick, there's not enough mechanical strength to resist the leverage of placing an item on the perimeter of the top - the tenon would likely work loose over a short period of time.

By adding a post block, you substantially thicken the joint, which will give the joint sufficient strength to avoid workign the post loose.

This is why I love it here - so much good information. It sounds like I was on the right track, though I'll see if there are any more ideas.

After nearly 10 years of production furniture and power tools, this will be my first fully neander build. That will include the turned post, but I still need to finish building my treadle lathe so it will be a while before I get this done. It is planned as a Christmas present, so I'll make sure to post pictures when I'm finished.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Roy,

Would you like to see photos of a bird cage arrangment for attaching the top?

I have one that I am currently battling the finish on......

I'll see if I have some photos...if not I'll go take some quickly before the wife leaves with the cameras in the morning.

Check this thread and this post... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1524702&postcount=30 ..If you look at the top of the bird cage, there are two pins coming out on opposite sides of the bird cage. I will remove one of the braces on the bottom of the table top...the pins will go in holes in the braces ....and then screw the brace back down.

[Roy Lindberry]

Roy,

Would you like to see photos of a bird cage arrangment for attaching the top?

I have one that I am currently battling the finish on......

I'll see if I have some photos...if not I'll go take some quickly before the wife leaves with the cameras in the morning.

Check this thread and this post... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1524702&postcount=30 ..If you look at the top of the bird cage, there are two pins coming out on opposite sides of the bird cage. I will remove one of the braces on the bottom of the table top...the pins will go in holes in the braces ....and then screw the brace back down.

Well, I always like looking at pictures of woodworking, so feel free to post them, but don't trouble yourself as I don't plan to do a movable top. However, I like the design of your pedestal and legs very much and might steal some ideas when the time comes (with your permission).

[Frank Drew]

Question on this: as I've thought about it for my own table designs (so far fantasy - my time goes to working on the house), it's occurred to me that slotting and wedging the tenon after it's installed in the disc would add strength. Does this make sense, is it overkill, or will it fail in some way I haven't thought about?

Bill,

That might or might not be overkill in any particular application but it would certainly make the joint tighter.

If the post is turned then I'd just turn a dowel at the top of the post to make a tight fit for a hole for which I had a drill bit; for a not-turned post I'd cut a tenon. In either case a through wedged dowel/tenon should make a great joint with less chance of coming loose than a plain joint.