Got bit stuck in router, could not remove without destroying bit

[Duane Bledsoe]

I put a bit in the used router I bought the other day and ran a few passes along a 2x4 with it to sample it. It worked smooth as butter and I was happy so I put it away and left the bit in it when I did. This was only a couple of days ago.

Today I tried to remove the bit and it was hopelessly stuck in the collet. I loosened the nut up to where it would spin freely on the threads and the bit remained welded solidly in place anyway. I sprayed it with WD-40 which did nothing. I gripped it with channel locks and managed to make the bit turn inside the collet but it was very tight and had to be forced to turn. Still wouldn't come out. So finally I used a flat prybar and pried it loose but by this time it was damaged beyond usability, one cutting edge was broken and it had channel lock teethmarks in the sides of it. I'm going to remove the bearing and save it but the rest of it is trash.

What can I do to prevent this from happening in the future?? When I put the bit in originally I put it all the way in as far as it would go with very little of the shaft showing. Was that a mistake??

[Chris Padilla]

Put a rubber o-ring in the bottom of router so you don't bottom out the bits.

[Don Alexander]

short answer is yes

if you look at your router bit/s where the shaft transitions into the the cutter part of the bit there is a bit of a taper which will do what you described if you seat the bit as far into the collet as it can go.

the correct way to do this is to keep the bit just far enough out of the collet to let the collet tighten on the straight part of the shaft of the bit
also if you have trouble getting the bit out of the collet again remove the nut and collet from the router entirely if possible the bit should then be able to be tapped out of collet from the other side thereby keeping the bit from being ruined

HTH :)

[Neil Brooks]

I think Chris P has it exactly right.

Also, out of habit, I tend to spray the bit shank with WD-40, and wipe it off before inserting it.

I also use the O-ring method ... just to be sure they don't bottom out.

[Will Overton]

There's something I think you missed. When you loosen a collet nut it gets to a point where it spins free. You need to keep turning it until the nut feels tight again, then continue to loosen it with the wrench. It has something to do with what they call self ejecting collets. They are designed to keep bits from sticking.

I also use an 'o' ring to keep my bits from bottoming out, but I put them on the bit. Bottoming out is more about keeping the shoulder (where the shaft meets the cutter) out of the collet. They are not usually a clean transition and can prevent the collet from holding the bit properly.

[Dave Lehnert]

What brand router is it?

My Freud router has a safety feature built into the collect. When you loosen the collect the nut will turn freely like it is free but if you keep turning the nut it will tighten up again. keep turning and it will release the bit.


Not sure if other brands do this.

[Neil Brooks]

My Milwaukee does the same thing. I think Will's implying it's a fairly common thing, too.

WOULD be nice if that were the OPs issue :)

[Will Overton]

Dave,

Most brands use the 'self ejecting' collets. I had 2 Craftsman routers from the '60's that worked the same way.

[Duane Bledsoe]

I feel so stupid now, but also relieved to know what I did wrong and can now avoid repeating it. Thanks for all the replies. My router is a 1975 model Craftsman. It has a label on it that says Craftsman Commercial.

Since the nut was finger loose I thought it was as loose as it was going to get and I never tried anything else other than to grab the bit with pliers and pull hard or twist it. Now reading this it makes so much more sense that I could have turned it until it was tight again and made the bit come free. I learned something from this though and I guarantee you I will never make this mistake again. I don't have anyone to teach me about woodworking and the tool functions so I guess I made a beginner's mistake. I'm not ignorant to power tool usage in general but I know nothing about routers specifically so this is what happens when I try to do it on my own with no guidance. Thanks so much for the insight.

[Will Overton]

... and had to be forced ...

I hope you learned one more thing ... ask first before using force. ;)

[Duane Bledsoe]

Yes I realize now I should have asked first. I will in the future.

I went back and looked at that bit after reading all this and it turns out I did have it chucked in there on the tapered part of the shaft right at the head of the bit. It left a mark on it where it was gripping it. Live and learn I guess. I won't make that mistake again.

[Van Huskey]

Duane, you aren't the only one that has done this, not only have I stuck a bit having it bottom out (and I knew better at the time) I also forced a bit out before I read the directions on my first router that had the safety feature!

[John Coloccia]

I feel so stupid now...

There's a reason we all know what you did wrong. Once upon a time, there may have been a mangled bit kicking around my shop too, but I've long since disposed of the evidence...

:D

[Neil Brooks]

I feel so stupid now

Uh, Duane ?

No offense, but ... on the Stupid-O-Meter of woodworking mistakes ... that one hardly registers ;)

[Philip Duffy]

Get a can of Exsox lube and you will never have another problem of this kind. I threw away all my WD-xx when I found how it did not work, except to remove water from elec. circuits. Phil

[Dan Hintz]

I went back and looked at that bit after reading all this and it turns out I did have it chucked in there on the tapered part of the shaft right at the head of the bit. It left a mark on it where it was gripping it.
Make sure you have not permanently contorted the collet, or you'll have more runout than before...

[Peter Quinn]

Yes I realize now I should have asked first. I will in the future.

I went back and looked at that bit after reading all this and it turns out I did have it chucked in there on the tapered part of the shaft right at the head of the bit. It left a mark on it where it was gripping it. Live and learn I guess. I won't make that mistake again.

Does the router still work? If so you are doing better than I did with my first router experience. My Dad still wonders what happened to that router and its been almost 25 years! Please don't tell him about the pipe wrench I used to extract the bit from the router I wasn't supposed to be using.:eek: Live and learn! And have fun at both.

[Neil Brooks]

I threw away all my WD-xx when I found how it did not work, except to remove water from elec. circuits. Phil

Functionally, it's very much like Odorless Mineral Spirits and oil.

http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf

For many applications, there are better lubricants. For instance, WD is pretty lightweight, thin, and NOT terribly long lasting.

But ... it's a card carrying, bona fine, "According to Hoyle" lube, and does a pretty good job for this sort of purpose -- a light degrease, a good clean, a rust preventative, and ... a nickel's worth of insurance that it goes in and comes out easily.

Poor WD. So misunderstood ;)

[Lee Schierer]

From time to time bits in my old Craftsman router get stuck, but not from being inserted too far. The collet is a a little on the rough side and every once in a while it will stick. What works for me is to tap on the side of the exposed bit shaft with a screw driver while rotating the collet every few taps. It sometimes takes a few minutes of tapping, but the collet has always worked loose without damaging the bit or the router.

I don't have that problem with my Feud as it has a collet puller built into the nut.

[Jerome Hanby]

Dave,

Most brands use the 'self ejecting' collets. I had 2 Craftsman routers from the '60's that worked the same way.

Does Hitachi have this kind of collet? I've got the KM12VC and i almost always end up tapping the collet sharply with the wrench after loosening to get it to release the bit. I tried continuing to loosen the nut until it tightened up again, but wasn't sure how much force to use after that. If i knew for certain that it was self releasing...

[John Coloccia]

Well, eventually the collet will just come off the router. I don't think I've ever seen a router where loosening the collet too much ever did anything besides removing the collet, i.e. I don't think I've ever seen one with some sort of captured collet and a "stop".

To give you an idea, you typically have to use a wrench to get by the tight spot when you're loosening it. It's takes quite a bit of force.

[Howard Acheson]

What brand router is it?

My Freud router has a safety feature built into the collect. When you loosen the collect the nut will turn freely like it is free but if you keep turning the nut it will tighten up again. keep turning and it will release the bit.


Not sure if other brands do this.

Dave, you are correct. The OP's problem could be related to that type of router bit chuck. Another problem with that type of router bit chuck is that it needs to be assembled correctly if the nut has been completely removed. It must be threaded back on and somewhat tightened to snap the retaining ring back onto the router chuck.

And, yes, some other routers use this type of safety device. I have a couple of Freuds so I know that theirs are this type. There are others but I don't recall which ones.

[Jerome Hanby]

Well, eventually the collet will just come off the router. I don't think I've ever seen a router where loosening the collet too much ever did anything besides removing the collet, i.e. I don't think I've ever seen one with some sort of captured collet and a "stop".

To give you an idea, you typically have to use a wrench to get by the tight spot when you're loosening it. It's takes quite a bit of force.

Cool, thanks for the info. I'm long on force and short on replacement collets and was a little nervous about trying...:D

[Will Overton]

Quoting Tom Hintz

"An unintentional problem caused by self-releasing collets is faking out new router owners, most of whom had not read the instruction manual. NewWoodworker.com receives several emails per week asking how to get a stuck bit out of a self-releasing collet and usually, the answer is simply finishing the release process."

Link to article;
http://www.newwoodworker.com/stuckbits.html



I still think it's best to put the 'o' ring on the bit. Except for straight bits where the cutting diameter is smaller than the shaft, the cutter portion of the bit always hits the top of the collet before the shaft hits the bottom. An 'o' ring in the bottom could still allow this to happen. This is a more serious situation because it can keep the collet from properly securing the bit.

As Tom said, with no 'o' rings you just need to lift the bit a little before tightening.

[Jim Rimmer]

OP said this was a 1975 vintage router. Did they have the self releasing collets then? I'm not sure but I don't think they did. I have an old Craftsman 1/4" ('80s vintage) that was always a bear to get the bit out and someone gave me some old router that had a bit in it. I finally got it out but will never use the router since all my new ones have the self-release feature.

[Alan Lightstone]

What size O-ring do you use?

[Neil Brooks]

1/2" o-rings on 1/2" shank bits.

1/4" for 1/4"

Bring one of each with you ... just to be absolutely sure.

Like nuts and bolts, the wrong ones wind up in the wrong bins ... far too often.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Uh, Duane ?

No offense, but ... on the Stupid-O-Meter of woodworking mistakes ... that one hardly registers ;)

Yep, I agree. I've done WAY stupider things... At least you didn't injure yourself. How sharp is this scraper? OW! I wonder if the forstner bit is cool now? OW!

[Will Overton]

1/2" o-rings on 1/2" shank bits.

1/4" for 1/4"



That would do it. I have boxes of assorted 'o' rings and just grab one that will stay there without falling off between uses. I leave them on the bits, so I can always tell if it's a bit I've used or a new one.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/Bill_de/bits.jpg

[Duane Bledsoe]

Well today I got another bit stuck in that router again. This is the first time I have attempted to put a bit in it since the first incident, so it's the second time, for clarification.

I put it in exactly as I was advised to do, made sure I had about 1/8 inch of the shaft showing so the collet was not on the tapered part of the shank. It cut just fine, same as before, and when I wanted to try another bit it would not come out.

So first I read the instructions of removing a stuck bit in the manual that I have with it. They simply said to loosen the nut until the bit slips freely and if it is stuck then to loosen it more until it came out. Well I backed it completely off the shaft to where there were no threads left and it was totally loose. Bit was still stuck. Then I noticed another more slender nut at the bottom of the threaded part. Don't know why it's there but I backed it all the way up until it made contact with the other nut and thereby forced the router bit to begin moving upwards out of the collet. I did this until I ran out of threads for it as well, it came completely free and the bit was still stuck. It had actually moved upwards about 3/8 inch but there it is frozen solid and will not budge and there is no more room for the nuts to come up, no threads left.

I did not want to tear up the bit, and at this point I no longer cared about a $25 used router, so I got a prybar and began to carefully pry on the bit so I didn't damage it while removing it. This did not work, WD-40 did not work again either, and finally smacking on the flatbar with a dead blow hammer to "pop" the bit out as before did not work either.

I gave up on it, decided to leave the bit in the old router and just use it anytime I want that profile cut on the wood. Tomorrow, I go to Sears to purchase a brand new router and have sworn off permanently ever buying another used tool again.

Thanks for all the help that I got here. No one's fault, and now I don't think it's even mine unless I somehow damaged the collet from the first time. I just don't know, but I'm sure there's something wrong with it. Maybe it has old wood dust or particles inside it that need cleaned out but while I had the bit out I tried to remove the collet for cleaning and inspection to no avail. I could not remove it, but I wanted to try the router so I did insert another bit. I paid $4 for the bit at Harbor Freight tools so no great loss, and I still have the bit and the router to use so it's not really even a loss. Just it doesn't work like I thought it would or like it's supposed to, and that being that I should be able to change bits in the router.

Oh well, at least I'm getting a new router out of it. The wife felt sorry for me wanting to use it to make stuff for her but could not make it work so it was her idea for me to go get a new one.:D

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Since you have 1/8" of room, get a mallet and give the bit a whack INTO the router. Should pop it free. It always worked for me. Those vintage routers must not have the self releasing feature. My old router does not either.

[Neil Brooks]

I'm with Kyle.

I'd also say that WD-40 would be a much better preventive measure than it would for where you are, now.

Maybe PB Blaster, let it sit a while, and THEN a mallet ... onto a board ... that's on top of the bit.

If it were MY router, though, I would NOT use it again, until I got that bit OUT and the problem diagnosed and solved.

Just because you can't get it out, the usual way, doesn't mean it won't come out when you least want it to :(

[Duane Bledsoe]

OK, I went back and tried the striking technique using a board after I loosened up the collet nut again. Took a couple of blows with a rubber mallet but it finally drove about 1/8 inch deeper back into the collet again. It still was tight as ever though so I took a prybar.....again.....and pried up on it, but this time I guess the mallet loosened it up so it finally started giving some and eventually popped out. No damage to the bit this time either, just some scratches on the painted back side and some boogered up places where the prybar bit into it, but it's on the back part of the bit that does not cut into the wood so I can still use it with no problems if I want to. The cutters are not broken or chipped and are still very sharp.

After I got it out I put it back in the collet loosely to see what was the problem. I noticed I can slide it into the collet freely up until about 3/4 inch away from the bit head and then it becomes snug, even with the collet nut spinning freely. I can't see anything in the collet, and nothing that looks like physical damage, and I can't get the collet out either.

I think I'm just going to forget this router totally. I got my bit back and I'm counting myself lucky that it came out without damage and I wasn't hurt in the process. And after reading that last post I think it's for the best as well. My uncle had a bit fly out on him several years ago and split his knuckles wide open across all 4 fingers. I don't want anything like that to happen. Tomorrow I'm getting that new router and hopefully won't have any more issues with things like this.

[Duane Bledsoe]

Well, I did it. Went to Sears and got a new router and table both.

The router is item 17543. It's a Craftsman and has a variable speed (12K - 25K RPM), 11 amp/2 HP motor (I remember reading on here it was suggested not to get a router that was less than 2 HP so I went for what I think is a good one). It comes with both a fixed base and a plunge base. It has both 1/4 and 1/2 inch collets for different sized bits and also has an edge guide too. Some other things it has that I think make it nice are worklights built in so you can see what the bit is cutting as it works and a couple of different attachments for connecting it to a shop vac hose to keep dust at a minimum. There's also a storage bag but I doubt it will see much time in that. Probably will get used to store other things instead.

Then the table was a simple item but looks fairly nice, item 28130 for anyone wanting to check it out. It has an MDF top, and is 24" x 14" in size. Has several insert rings for different sized router bits and an on/off switch built in. It came with a featherboard to keep workpieces from kicking back as well. I guess it's a good set up for me, being my first one (actually not true, years ago I paid $100 for a cheap router/table combo on sale at Sears and then just gave it to my uncle after I got it without ever learning to use it, this time will be different though).

So I guess I'm set to go for now. I paid $80 for the router on sale, was $120, and then I paid $80 for the table as well on sale, was $100. Also Craftsman club days were going on so I got another $8 off the router price. All in all, not bad I do believe. I found a fairly large set of bits at Lowe's for about $95 that I plan to pick up as well. Skil is the brand on them. I know they're not the cream of the crop but will do what I want for the most part and I can expand as time goes on, get better bits later. This set has most of the shapes and sizes that I want to work with for now.