Delta 46-460 issue?

[Patrick Doody]

Ok guys picking your collective brains here, i'm a novice and only have experience on 3 lathes a jet 1220, my Delta 46-460 and my friends Stubby. i don't remember seeing this issue on either the stubby or the Jet.

When turning on my Delta I've noticed that there seems to be a speed reasonance(that's what I'm calling it. I'll have a blank turned to a cylinder or a bowl in the chuck that's been roughed. when i turn up the speed i get major vibration until i turn the speed up faster and it smooths out. my lathe is pretty new and it has done this since it was taken out of the box and fired up for the first time. FWIW i think it may even do this with no blank mounted and no chuck or center in the lathe. Is this normal? what's causing this? should i be contacting Support?

[John Keeton]

Patrick, I have turned on only two lathes, and with certain blanks, both of them acted similarly. However, I felt it was just the harmonics of the blank - similar to an automobile wheel being out of balance only at certain speeds.

[David E Keller]

Sounds normal with a blank mounted, but it shouldn't happen with an empty spindle... The lathe shouldn't vibrate with there's nothing mounted.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Patrick,

While it shouldn't happen when it has no blank on it, it can happen with a blank. The RPMs at which it will happen will vary due to the differences in lathes and the particular blank involved.

It is a resultant mechanical resonant frequency that is creating the vibration. Once you get above or below that frequency, the vibration should be reduced.

Again....this is a naturally occurring phenomenon that will vary from blank to blank.....

A question.....you said it happens with a roughed out bowl....does it go away after you have it to the finished stage. If it is related to that particular blank, I would expect it to certainly be greatly reduced if not totally gone after you have the blank finished turned into a bowl.

We have the same problems with x-ray tubes on CT scanners and will occasionally have to rebalance a gantry using counter weights at very specific positions after changing a tube. Some really subtle weight difference and position of the weight difference can cause this effect.

This is the same effect people relieve on the grinders by adding the Oneway balancing kit. It is balancing for weight vs position of weight to remove vibration from the wheel.

[Patrick Doody]

ahhh thanks again guys!

I checked it with no center in the lathe and I found that there is only a slight vibration on the top end of the speed range when the pulley is on the middle position, i'm glad that this is a normal issue and i'm not crazy. as for the finished bowl vibrating, it kinda depends on the bowl, some wobble some don't but i would guess this could be due to different densities in the wood. the apple i'm currently turning seems to be particularly unbalanced no matter how thin i turn it. I just find the sweet spot where there's minimal vibration and turn away. Thanks again guys!

I do love this lathe however I do think there are 2 weak spots that could be easily improved upon, the tool rests seem to be kinda on the chintzy side, I'll be upgrading those pretty soon i think(I wish the shaft that went into the banjo was slightly bigger as well). and the live center could be a little tighter(there seems to be a little play in the bearings of mine) and it would be nice to have a hollow live center with an option to knock out the tip. that's another planned upgrade. i guess that's why they call it the vortex eh?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Patrick - I have a Jet 1642 with a ballast box holding 7 bags of concrete and it has harmonic oscillations in the 700 rpm range. I believe it has to do with the way I have the lathe balanced - close but not absolute. Also, my lathe sits on carpet - so even though the carpet is compressed - it has more flex than the concrete under it.

Basically saying that little things add up. Make sure your lathe is level, bolted down as evenly as possible and see if that doesn't help/change the problem.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

ahhh thanks again guys!

I checked it with no center in the lathe and I found that there is only a slight vibration on the top end of the speed range when the pulley is on the middle position, i'm glad that this is a normal issue and i'm not crazy. as for the finished bowl vibrating, it kinda depends on the bowl, some wobble some don't but i would guess this could be due to different densities in the wood. the apple i'm currently turning seems to be particularly unbalanced no matter how thin i turn it. I just find the sweet spot where there's minimal vibration and turn away. Thanks again guys!

I do love this lathe however I do think there are 2 weak spots that could be easily improved upon, the tool rests seem to be kinda on the chintzy side, I'll be upgrading those pretty soon i think(I wish the shaft that went into the banjo was slightly bigger as well). and the live center could be a little tighter(there seems to be a little play in the bearings of mine) and it would be nice to have a hollow live center with an option to knock out the tip. that's another planned upgrade. i guess that's why they call it the vortex eh?

The live center that came with my 46-460 has the tip that can be removed, are you saying yours doesn't ??

[Patrick Doody]

Leo, as far as I can tell the shaft is solid and I can see no way to knock out the tip. I'll take some pics this afternoon, I wish I could knock the tip out of mine. I'm still a bit of a noob so maybe I'm missing something

[Rob Holcomb]

I do love this lathe however I do think there are 2 weak spots that could be easily improved upon, the tool rests seem to be kinda on the chintzy side, I'll be upgrading those pretty soon i think(I wish the shaft that went into the banjo was slightly bigger as well). and the live center could be a little tighter(there seems to be a little play in the bearings of mine) and it would be nice to have a hollow live center with an option to knock out the tip. that's another planned upgrade. i guess that's why they call it the vortex eh?

I'll 2nd that opinion!

[Patrick Doody]

Leo, I'm soo silly, the center is hollow. What the heck was i thinking?
after I figured out that i was wrong about the live center this whole time, i gave it some good wackes with the knockout bar to no avail. what's the trick on knocking out the tip?

i broke out the manual(still sealed in it's original shrink wrap packaging(for collecting purposes ;)), the manual made no mention of removing the tip from the live center. do i just hit it harder?

What would I do without you guys! now i don't have to go buy a new live center. more money that i don't have to play with :D

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo, I'm soo silly, the center is hollow. What the heck was i thinking?
after I figured out that i was wrong about the live center this whole time, i gave it some good wackes with the knockout bar to no avail. what's the trick on knocking out the tip?

i broke out the manual(still sealed in it's original shrink wrap packaging(for collecting purposes ;)), the manual made no mention of removing the tip from the live center. do i just hit it harder?

What would I do without you guys! now i don't have to go buy a new live center. more money that i don't have to play with :D

Here's what mine looks like, the center tip comes out very easy on mine, yours could be stuck of course, take a block of wood and drill a hole in it so the tip could go in there, set the center on the wood block so the tip can fall into the drilled hole, then use a bar and steel hammer and give the tip a sharp hit, the tip should come out that way, if not put some penetrating oil in it and let it sit for a day than try again.
If it still doesn't come out, maybe a change for a new one from the place you bought the lathe, should be warranty, loose bearing and a tip that won't come out, shouldn't be that way IMO.

163488

[Cathy Schaewe]

Hm, learned something new. I didn't realize that tip came out.

Mine wobbled, and I called Delta and they sent me a new one, no questions asked. I'm sure if you called and asked them, they'd send you another.

[Roger Chandler]

Leo, I'm soo silly, the center is hollow. What the heck was i thinking?
after I figured out that i was wrong about the live center this whole time, i gave it some good wackes with the knockout bar to no avail. what's the trick on knocking out the tip?

i broke out the manual(still sealed in it's original shrink wrap packaging(for collecting purposes ;)), the manual made no mention of removing the tip from the live center. do i just hit it harder?

What would I do without you guys! now i don't have to go buy a new live center. more money that i don't have to play with :D


Patrick,

I do not have a Delta 46-460, however I have seen some of these centers that have a set screw [one of mine does] that holds the tip in the center, and it is not always obvious. Check to see if a set screw is locking the tip into the center.

[Patrick Doody]

Hm, learned something new. I didn't realize that tip came out.

Mine wobbled, and I called Delta and they sent me a new one, no questions asked. I'm sure if you called and asked them, they'd send you another.

I'll contact Delta and get a replacement, while I'm waiting I'm going to work on getting the tip out of my current one. Thanks for the errrr ummm, tip Leo!

[Patrick Doody]

no set screw that i can see. I beat the living crud out of it and it's still stuck! i'm gonna give a good dose of penetrating oil tonight and give it another go tomorrow. I'll probably see if delta will send a replacement because of the play in the bearings, but i really want to knock this tip out because it's just laughing at me now.

[Michael James]

Leo, as far as I can tell the shaft is solid and I can see no way to knock out the tip. I'll take some pics this afternoon, I wish I could knock the tip out of mine. I'm still a bit of a noob so maybe I'm missing something


Patrick, some live centers (don't have your lathe, yet) come with a variety of tips as Leo mentioned. They don't knock out, they just pull out, leaving a small recess to hold the different tips. Good luck, seems like a lot of frustration for a new lathe... sigh.

[Ken Casser]

Patrick, I found your post when SEARCHing regarding issues with the 46-460 lathe. Can you update us on your vibration issue? Is it still happening? What symptoms? Any other problems with the lathe? The reason I ask is, I got one for Christmas. Spent a few weeks building a bench for it and did a little turning on it, but not much. Then, I noticed a vibration when the machine was turned on but no wood attached. Studying it further, I noticed the vibration to be most prevalent when the belt was in the low speed range, and the variable knob was turned up to about 440 rpms. I still got vibration with the belt in the midrange, but not as much. But in the low range, it would vibrate my bench (made of 4 x 6 timbers). I took the machine to the Service Center in January and just got it back today. They replaced the motor, pulley, belt and two bearings, brought the machine out for my inspection, plugged it in and viola - still vibrating. I was told that there is an adjustment nut inside the lower belt housing that adjusts the belt tension, and that when I feel vibration, I should loosen this nut until the vibration goes away. They claim that the belt was over tightened which caused the vibration and damaged the motor, bearings, etc. They told me that this was particularly critical when the belt was on the low speed range because then it is farthest out on the shaft. Is it possible that any of this applies to your issue?

[Wally Wenzel]

I just went out to my shop and tried to remove the tip from the center of 46-46 that i have for only 2 wks. If it will come out it will take more than my 3# mall which i just tried, i really do not want to hit any harder than i just did, idid just as Leo suggseted and no luck. Wally

[James Combs]

Patrick - I have a Jet 1642 with a ballast box holding 7 bags of concrete and it has harmonic oscillations in the 700 rpm range. I believe it has to do with the way I have the lathe balanced - close but not absolute. Also, my lathe sits on carpet - so even though the carpet is compressed - it has more flex than the concrete under it.

Basically saying that little things add up. Make sure your lathe is level, bolted down as evenly as possible and see if that doesn't help/change the problem.

Like Steve I have the Jet 1642 and like Steve's mine has a harmonic at about 700-800 rpm. Below or above that it is generally smooth depending on the the blank's balance.

[Ken Casser]

When I got home, I mounted the lathe on my bench and took a closer look at it. The way the tech adjusted the belt, it's barely rubbing on the pulleys. It's so loose, you could change speeds without moving the lever. Very strange. Also, the pulleys are mounted as far to the left (towards the end of the motor shaft) as possible which exerts the most pressure on the bearings possible. Are everyone's pulleys all the way to the left? Or should they be mounted so that the motor pulley is closer to the motor? I'm a little turned off at this point. I think I've bought into a POS, but the reviews were all so positive.

[Bill Mains]

So what happened? Did u get vibrations fixed? I'm statrting to get vibration in mine also. Bill

[Ken Casser]

I eventually just moved the belt to the center speed range on the pulleys, tightened it appropriately, and then (and I'll have to check on this to see what I did exactly) tightened up the bolt that the lower pulley arm swings on which took some play out of the system. I just use this middle range for now, and it seems to have solved the problem for the most part. To change speed ranges, I'd have to loosen that bolt again, but for what I've been doing, I really don't need those other ranges. Admitedly, I haven't been doing much turning lately, so I really haven't been pushing the issue, but it seems better. Let me know what you find. Ken

[Ken Casser]

My mistake. I actually tightened the Allen head bolt that, when only snug, allows the motor to swing thereby releasing the tension on the belt. Let me know if that doesn't make sense and I'll try to post a photo.