Dye on oak

[Jim Tobias]

Anyone have any tricks to get dye(transtint in water) to get down in the open grain in oak? I am dyeing an old oak desk fro my grandson to math some othe rfurniture and the dye isn't getting down in the open pores of the oak. I am flooding the surface but to no avail.

Jim

[Mark Rakestraw]

I've had success flooding the dye and wiping with a saturated terry cloth rag to force the dye into the grain. Not fun, but it worked.
Mark

[Darl Bundren]

You could also fill the grain with stain like a mission-style kind of finish. Apply stain, wipe off excess.

[Peter Quinn]

Try wiping across the grain. It may take both a water based and an oil based product to get where you want to go. Water based dyes tend to get the flat closed grainmpart of oak better, oil stains seem to get the open grain and pores better, and you can use both to good effect. You can also dye the wood, seal with a barrier coat of shellac, then grain fill with a filler dyed to match.

[alex grams]

I did a desk with transtint dye on oak:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=405&pictureid=3949

Just make sure when you use transtint you don't treat it like a normal stain. You will need to apply a lot of transtint to get the color to set in and blend well. If you try and be modest with the transtint you will see streaking and unevenness in the color on the desk. Put a VERY generous amount of the dye on and just rub it in, working your way around the piece and overlapping each area of application with wiping marks as you move forward through the piece.

[Prashun Patel]

What's yr solvent? Water or alcohol? You might have better luck getting the dye into the pores with ethanol.

[Bob Rossi]

You say it's an 'old' oak desk, was there a finish on it? There could still be finish sealing the open grain preventing your dye from penetrating. Try gel stain.

[Pete Bradley]

This is red oak I assume? It's really hard to get the dye into the pores. What works well is to do dye, let it dry, then apply a pigmented stain or glaze for the pores. You absolutely, positively have to test the entire schedule including final finish on scrap or unseen areas to tune the results to what you want.

If this piece has a combination of quartersawn and flatsawn pieces, be aware that the overall "color" that's perceived may be different as the qtr takes the pigmented stain differently from the flat. Jeff Jewitt's site has a lot of good information on this process.

Pete

[Jim Tobias]

Good advice from all. I have applied the water based transtint already. Can I apply a regular minwax stain on top of this without issues? And afterwards seal it all in with shellac before topcoating.

[Pete Bradley]

Can I apply a regular minwax stain on top of this without issues? And afterwards seal it all in with shellac before topcoating.
Yes, but test first since the choice of stain affects the final color.

Pete

[Peter Quinn]

Good advice from all. I have applied the water based transtint already. Can I apply a regular minwax stain on top of this without issues? And afterwards seal it all in with shellac before topcoating.

Yes. Let the transtint dry completely. Stain with oil based product, preferably test on an inconspicuous area first. Let it dry completely, could take 3-4 days, no smell should be present, and no tack at all, Then barrier coat with shellac sealer like zinnser dewaxed sealer. Then top coat or grain fill. If you grain fill, let that dry, then seal, then top coat.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Can I apply a regular minwax stain on top of this without issues? And afterwards seal it all in with shellac before

Yes, and yes. That is the process to use. Because of the deep pores and the surface tension of water, water will not "flow" to the bottom of a narrow pore.

[Nathan Allen]

Tinted 1lb dewaxed shellac, carefully measure the same amount of TT to get a color match. Use it as a sanding sealer and you should be left with a nice even finish. for the middle coat use TT with water since otherwise you'll be moving the shellac left in the pores.

[Prashun Patel]

Because of the deep pores and the surface tension of water, water will not "flow" to the bottom of a narrow pore.

This is why I suggest first trying to dye with ethanol instead of water as the solvent; it's surface tension is much lower. This is also the reason tinted shellac may work, but I'd just use ethanol and dye. You can also reduce the ST of both solvents by applying them warm.

Dyes tend to color oak a more evenly. If you switch to an oil stain like Minwax, be advised that the pigment will (conversely) preferentially collect in the pores, leaving the pores considerably darker than the rest of the wood. This will cause the pores to be more prominent and highlighted. It's not unattractive; just be aware of it.

[Mark Rakestraw]

Just a heads up. I once had problems when I used Transtint in alcohol on red oak. The alcohol/dye would flood into the open pore, then as the alcohol evaporated out of the pore it brought the excess dye up with it. I wound up with little bullseye type circles around all the pores. That is when I switched to using the water but rubbing it in with terrycloth. The water apparently evaporated slowly enough that it didn't bring the extra dye back up to the surface. I have used alcohol/Transtint on white oak (closed pore) without problems.

[Pete Bradley]

+1 for Mark's comment. I've tried alcohol, alcohol and water, water, mileage varies greatly.

Did I mention test the whole finish schedule first? ;)

Pete

[Jim Tobias]

Thanks for all the responses. I will definitely test before going to the actual project.
I will probably use a minwax stain and then let dry thoroughly and then barrier coat of Zinnser spray shella before topcoat.
I have already put the dye on and so my challenge now is to get some color in the pores. I I will probably use a lighter stain so as not to create very dark pores/grain lines.

Again,
Thanks for the help.

Jim

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jim - late to the party.

The water in waterborne dye brings in the surface tension issue - remember the meniscus from 10th grade science? You can't get the water down into the open pores of oak. Nobody can. Physics, all that stuff. At the same time, applying waterborne dye is so much easier to use and get good results - a small hardware spray bottle, and a rag, just spray and wipe and it works great. Have not tried Prashtun's "heat it up" thing, nor Nathan's tinted seal coat thing.

So - during my first project with transtint, water and QSWO I was sitting right where you are. I remembered my dear Dad telling me many times, when I was an all-knowing-youth: "When all else fails, read the instructions." [Of course, I never gave him the satisfaction of knowing I was actually listening to him, eh?]

If you go to the Homstead site [makes the trantstint/transfast products], you can click on the tab at the top labeled Articles. Open up the Stickley Mission Finish Guide. It gives you a lot of examples.

Even if you end up deciding to sand it some after the stain, NBD. You can reapply the dye with no problems.