First planes: a few questions

[Andrew Nemeth]

Hello all,

I usually hang out over in the corded tool section but recently I have been seduced by the idea of paper thin curls and a shop quiet enough that I can think. I don't envision scrapping my sationary power tools but instead to enhance what capabilities I already have. I almost exclusively work with harwoods and primarily build cabinets and furniture although on occasion I'll make a few wooden boxes as gifts. I think I will likely continue to dimension my stock with power tools but I would like to fine tune jointery and smooth surfaces by hand before finishing. I would also like to be able to work wide tabletops larger than I can currently dimension with my equipment (15" planer).
My thoughts are:
Adjustable mouth low angle block plane
No. 4-1/2 smoothing plane (should I get a high angle frog?)
No. 7 or 8 jointer (any benefits to one or the other?)
Large scraper plane
Medium Shoulder plane

Should I add a low angle jack for versatility?

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated,
Thanks,
Andrew

[James Phillips]

I use both hand and power tools and the combination will improve your work.

I have a 4, 5 and 6 bench planes, have a shoulder plane on order and need a new low angle block. My 5 is ground with more camber than the other 2 bench planes. It is a good mix, but you could swap the 4 for a 3 and the 6 for a 7 (buy the odds) if you wanted. I would group you bench planes like this and have one out of each group: (3,4) (5) (6,7,8).

[Andrew Gibson]

I would say for a smoother a #4 would be a good starting point. I have a #3 and #4 they both have there place. I use the #3 as a large blockplane or on smaller pieces a lot. but the #4 will do pretty much anything you want it to do. A #4-1/2 I have never used but may get hard to puch in hardwoods especially as an only smoother. I think you will be fine to start with a standard angle frog.

Everyone needs a good block plane. I just got a 60-1/2 and put a lee valley iron in it. I am really excited to put it through its paces.

For a jointer I would suggest a #7 as it is just a little easier to push around, and the 2-5/8" iron of the #8 is just a bit to wide for my 2-1/2" water stones.

After that to go all the way form rough to finished all you need is a jack. Say a #5. I have a pair of #5's one is set up as a scrub plane and the other is set up as a try plane. The try has just a bit of camber to the iron. all you really need is a pair of irons sharpened with various cambers. The iron in the #4 will fit the #5 and can turn your #5 into a big smoother or a great shooting plane. the jack is such a versatile plane that i would strongly suggest getting one regardless of weather or not you plan to surface by hand or not, I use my 5 sas moch or more then any other plane.

All that being said I would suggest is a #4, #5, #7, and a 60-1/2... or the equivalent.

If you are looking to pick up antique planes, be ready to put in at least a couple hours each to get them ready to go. Replacing the Irons with Lee Valley or Hock Irons really is worth it.

I would say start with some card scrapers, I have a #80 scraper plane and rarely use it.
I still need to get a shoulder plane, I say go for it.

[Matt Evans]

No to the high angle frog until you think you might need it for specific tasks/woods.

I would say a good block plane is a great idea, adjustable mouth may or may not be needed. I come across Stanley 9 1/4s all the time that have tight mouths, and these work great. (They are normally pretty inexpensive, too.)

A No. 8 would be really nice to have for table tops, but a No. 7 will get you there with very little problem. I find the weight of a 7 to be ideal, personally, although I would love to occasionally have the extra size the No.8 gives.

A shoulder plane is a nice tool to have, and really comes in handy, but I would consider a router plane before getting a shoulder plane. Another thing to think about is possibly getting a carriage makers plane instead of a shoulder plane, at that you can find a lot of uses for it other than shoulders and such.

Scraper plane and a 4 1/2 are great tools to have in your arsenal, and I say go for 'em.

Not sure if that helps much, but its my two cents.

[James Taglienti]

everyone is going to have a different (and long winded) opinion on this subject. Get some basics and see what you need from there.

[Matt Evans]

everyone is going to have a different (and long winded) opinion on this subject. Get some basics and see what you need from there.


Thats a pretty good summation there. The only issue is that everyone has a different opinion of the basics.

If you stick with the original list, adding in a no. 5 for some of the more general tasks , you should be well on your way to figuring out what you actually need.

It is all down to individual methods of work though. What works for me won't always work for everyone. Figure out how you like everything set up and then just build your tool box accordingly.

[Don Dorn]

Yep everyone has different opinions, mine is a #4 first as it's fairly versatile in the absence of anything else. Eventually, a #5, #7 and good block will take you at least 90% of where you would ever need to go.

I wouldn't worry about going beyond that, but for the work I do - a Record 778 Rabbet and a LN 10 1/4 get far more use than I would have thought. My block choice was a LN Rabbeting block plane and so far, I haven't felt the need for a shoulder plane. If I had to do it over, I'd have gotten the 10 1/4 first and skipped the #5 and had a dual role plane.

[Andrae Covington]

My advice is to buy the block plane first. Learn how to sharpen it and how to use it. They are comparatively inexpensive, and small so you're not trying to push around a lot of wood while figuring out the nuances of adjusting the depth of the iron, etc. I have the Veritas low-angle block plane but most anything would work. I think a block plane would be handy even if you never go on to use other planes.

Since you plan to still use machines for most of the heavy work, I would buy a smoothing plane next. Some people prefer a relatively large and wide one, like the 4-1/2, others prefer smaller ones like the 3, with the 4 being the most common middle-ground size.

The shoulder plane could be added around the same time or even with the block. They are great for tweaking tenons, dados, rabbets, etc. whether cut by hand or machine.

After that, if you think you want to try preparing rough stock by hand, in situations where your jointer and planer aren't wide enough, then you will want to buy a fore / jack plane and a jointer plane. On small pieces, the rough and finer flattening could all be done with a jack, especially with two different blades... but if the pieces were that small, they would fit through your machines. The bevel-up (low-angle) jack planes from Lie Nielsen and Veritas are very nice, and if you just wanted an all-in-one plane that could be a rough fore plane, a small jointer, and a big smoother, they would be a great choice. If you are going to dedicate planes to each task (which I would generally recommend), then any ol' jack will do for the rough plane. By the time you camber the iron, it doesn't matter if the mouth is wide open or if the sole is not completely flat. The jointer plane on the other hand needs to be as close to dead flat as possible, and an adjustable or otherwise fairly tight mouth will be an advantage. As far as the size of jointer planes, most of us who have flattened our workbench tops by hand did so with a 7 or equivalent, so it certainly works for table-sized projects.

[James Taglienti]

A block plane and a #4 smoother. If you are a power tool guy and want to dabble, the last thing you'll be doing is jack planing huge timbers by hand, no matter what any of us tell you.

When I transitioned from power tools I used a

Block plane to smooth saw marks from the edges and ends of boards and remove jointer scalloping, also for knocking sharp edges from boards i just machined

#4 size smoother to butcher er... to smooth boards (it took me a long time to sharpen it right, I thought the belt sander made it adequately sharp)

a shoulder plane and set of sharp chisels to fine tune joints

[Robert Culver]

This is how I did it....

Block plane lie nielson low angle.(most Used)
5 1/2 Lie nielson Jack Plane covers most of my needs for small cabnets and boxes.
# 4 Bailey smooth plane
Now I am hunting for a good #7

I will say I added A #40 scrub plane in before the # 4 but you being a power Guy may not want to jump on that band wagon that fast.

[Matt Evans]

Now I am hunting for a good #7


Not to toot me own horn, but. . .

There are three people selling No. 7s in the classifieds section. (ok, one of em is a Primus wooden Jointer, which looks like a heck of a plane. I have used some of their smaller planes and they do work very well. The adjusters take a little getting used to if you are switching from the metal planes, but the Norris adjusters are pretty darn sweet.)

[Bill Houghton]

There are dozens of books that will introduce you to hand tool use and will offer arguments for one basic set of tools over another. See what your local library has and read all of the books/watch the DVDs.

Almost more important than which planes you buy in what order is that you budget money for sharpening equipment at the same time you buy your first plane. One well-sharpened plane is worth more than a million dull ones.

[Robert Culver]

Not to toot me own horn, but. . .

There are three people selling No. 7s in the classifieds section. (ok, one of em is a Primus wooden Jointer, which looks like a heck of a plane. I have used some of their smaller planes and they do work very well. The adjusters take a little getting used to if you are switching from the metal planes, but the Norris adjusters are pretty darn sweet.)

Huh I have missed out on a couple of the stanleys. I see the wooded plane I will have to poke around again.

[Stephen Cherry]

Planes are reflective of the typical ironies in life. You don't know what you want or need at any given time until later.

That said, I like my lie nielsen rabbet block plane, and my primus plane (it's comparable to no. 4 in size). I think that the primus has a higher than normal angle, which is nice.


My recommendation, buy quality and try them out to see how they suite your needs. Go to the Lie Nielson hand tool event (even if you need to travel), and see what you like. Count on being there for hours. They are extremely helpful, and will prepare the tools for you if you want to give them a try.

Also, LEARN TO SHARPEN (not yelling)

It's not hard, and not complex, and you don't need gizmos. I use the 10 dollar jig from woodcraft, and it works great. The beginning of sharp is when you can shave hair off your arm. Actually, I wouldn't even begin to think about planes until you can sharpen a chisel to be arm hair shaving sharp.

[Jim Koepke]

What Stephan said about sharpening. That is the key issue to enjoying and being successful with any hand plane.

In the end, you will be the one to decide what you are going to buy and how much of a budget you have for the different tools.

For fine tuning joinery a router plane, shoulder plane or rabbeting plane of some type can all do the job in different ways. The router plane is good for taking a little off the cheeks but not the shoulders of a tenon. A shoulder plane is mostly for trimming shoulders and can trim the cheeks with a little work, a rabbet plane is actually for other uses, but is kind of the jack of all trades for the work it can do. Then there are a lot of other planes for other joinery specifics. A good set of chisels is also a good investment.

For table tops or large surfaces, I would be more inclined to pick a #4-1/2, #6 and a #8 just because these are all larger planes. Though in harder woods, these could be a lot more work than the #4, #5 and #7 combination.

For the block plane work, if you are doing a lot of end grain work and shaping the ends of pieces, then a low angle like the LN #60-1/2 would be a good choice. If all you want to do is break a sharp edge, then a cheap yard sale find like the #102 that I found used for $2.25 will work fine.

If you can, pick up a #4 or a #5 Bailey type plane from a flea market or yard sale. Tune it up and see what it does. Before you go looking though you should look at a few of the completed listings on ebay or look through the old classifieds here to see what prices are like.

There are a few people here, including myself, who often sell planes. That could be another source if you want to buy one that the seller is going to tell you what you are getting without surprises.

jtk

[Andrew Nemeth]

Thanks for all the feedback!!! Looks like my original list was not too far off the mark. I'm still debating between a 4 and 4-1/2 as my first smoother. Guess I better find a few to play with.

I'll keep you all posted. I know you all like to watch a guy start sliding down a slippery slope.

-Andrew