1st time's luck

[Keith Christopher]

Second times skill. As the saying goes. Well I have the spacebag vacuum press hard at work again. This time I'm doing a quilted Makore veneer with a maple veneer on the opposing face. this will be trimmed down to be the center of a humidor for a client. It will be outlined by ebony, the rest of the humidor will be guilded with silver (using a japan color most likely a crimson) then I will apply a patina. I will post pics of the veneer of course the finished project.

So lets see if this spacebag vacuum press will work for a second time with a more expensive veneer.


Keith

[Don Selke]

Let us know how it works out Keith, I may be getting one of those space bags very soon.

[Keith Christopher]

Well here ya go. One edge shot and one top shot.

[Bill Arnold]

... Well I have the spacebag vacuum press hard at work again. This time I'm doing a quilted Makore veneer with a maple veneer on the opposing face. ... So lets see if this spacebag vacuum press will work for a second time with a more expensive veneer. KeithKeith,

Did you use commercial veneer or resaw your own? Either way, it's gonna look great when you're finished.

I saw your earlier post about success with the Spacebag. I might have to try that myself. Although, my shower curtain worked fine on one of my current projects. :)

Regards,

[Keith Christopher]

Keith,

Did you use commercial veneer or resaw your own?

Bill,

This is a commercial veneer. I wish I knew a way to determine how much Hg the spacebag gives. It is enough to press a veneer flat :) The Makore didn't curl too much when I applied the glue, but man the maple almost formed a tube in like 20 seconds. I'll be sure and post pictures when it's finished.


Keith

[Steve Jenkins]

A couple hints keith, don't put the glue on the veneer, just on the core. I don't recall if you mentioned what you are using for a caul but if you use 3/4 mdf for the top caul it will help to press out any waviness in the veneer.I use freezer wrap between the veneer and the cauls, with the waxed face to the veneer so any bleed through wont' stick.

[Keith Christopher]

A couple hints keith, don't put the glue on the veneer, just on the core. I don't recall if you mentioned what you are using for a caul but if you use 3/4 mdf for the top caul it will help to press out any waviness in the veneer.I use freezer wrap between the veneer and the cauls, with the waxed face to the veneer so any bleed through wont' stick.
Steve,

The post glue-up was completely flat, the curling was from when I applied the glue to the veneer. I am using MDF for the caul wrapped in plastic wrap. The wavieness in the veneer above if the grain of the Makore. This piece came out just as good as the first perfectly flat and no empty pockets. I don't see the space bags holding up long term (I think they're 2mil vinyl. I rounded over the corners of the cauls and the platen so to help reduce the chance of punctures.

One thing about this Makore, it's a VERY brittle wood. VERY.

[Bill Arnold]

... I wish I knew a way to determine how much Hg the spacebag gives. It is enough to press a veneer flat ... Keith
Keith,

In practice, I've done a very successul veneering job on a large radius piece with as little as 8"Hg. We couldn't find the leak in that bag (commercial shop) but it was obvious the veneer was compressed well and it looked perfect when it came out a couple of hours later. I've read posts in which folks have said you need in excess of 20"Hg for success. I adjusted the vacuum switch on my setup to maintain a range of 16" to 21" and it works fine.

You could add a vacuum guage to see what you're pulling; I got my guage and a few other parts from the Joe WW site. Below is a photo of my system which includes a vacuum pump I bought from a friend for $60, the vacuum guage, vacuum switch to turn off the pump, and a check valve. The PVC pipe is a buffer tank in the line to the bag.

[Keith Cope]

Keith,
When you have pretty brittle veneer like the makore you used, you can use a veneer softener to help relax it first, which will make it easier to work with. You can find commercially available products, but it's very easy to make your own. There are several recipes out there, I used a pretty simple one of just glycerine and water and had good luck with it. I'm also with Steve--apply the glue to the substrate, not the veneer. Good luck!

Keith

[Steve Wargo]

like a humidor then you can hammer veneer the piece and not have to worry about the veneer curling at all. It also works well if you have a pice of veneer that would normally need to be flattened for fear of cracking in a press.

[Keith Christopher]

Steve,


Never hammered a veneer. not sure how it's done.

Keith

[Glenn Clabo]

http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/images/vhammer.gif This is an older style hammer...many people now make them with a slab of Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) as a face. You press the veneer to squeeze it into the hide glue. I was taught to do it that way...but it takes skill so I found a roller was easier. Don't know if it is better...but there are things I did 20-30 years ago still around the family.

[Steve Wargo]

use hot hide glue. Apply it to the substrate and apply the veneer. Then you apply the hot hide glue to the top of the veneer. This prevents the veneer from wrapping, and then you use the hammer like a squeegie and apply pressure to all the areas of the veneer that make contact with the substrate. When the crackling sound starts then the glue is starting to set, usually only about 30 seconds depending on your glue mixture. You'er basically looking for a mixture about the consistency of a heavy cream, but when I am hammer veneering I'll water it down a touch more to ensure I have time to get everything down. The bulk of the hot hide glue applied to the top is removed with the whiping motion of the veneer hammer. The nice part about doing it this way is the hide glue that is applied to the top of the veneer seals it and there is no need to use a pore filler. Also, hide glue takes stain and dye. Hope this helps.