Help Identify This Plane

[Mitchell Miracle]

I found this when I was cleaning out my shop. Don't know anything about it and was wondering if it was worth cleaning up and trying to use. Anybody know what it is. Looks to me and my untrained eye like an old Stanley 60 block plane. Any help?

[Andrew Gibson]

Looks Like a version of the Stanley 9-3/4.

I don't know what type or if other makers made copies of the plane...
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm

edit. the lateral adjuster makes me think it is not a stanley, but I could easiley be wrong.

[Jonathan McCullough]

That's a Sargent block plane. I've never seen the rear handle on one of those though. Google Bob Kaune and Sargent plane. Could be a #307 or #308 with a Stanley rear knob add on.

[Jim Koepke]

Clean it up, sharpen the blade and if it works, it was worth it.

If you do not like it, I am sure there are people who would try to make it work. I think those with the ball on the end get the collectors drooling on their keyboards.

What is that they say about a collector and their money?

jtk

[Mitchell Miracle]

Thanks for the info. I am new to woodworking. Although I want to learn to use planes I think I need to start with a finely tuned Veritas or LN so that I have a feel for the way planes are supposed to behave. I do not think restoring a plane is something I want to do right now. Any idea how much I can sell one of these for???

[john brenton]

Ahhh the collectors. They suck when they want a tool that you want, but they're great when they want a tool that you have.





What is that they say about a collector and their money?

jtk

[Chris Vandiver]

Go to the big auction site and put this item # in the search box; 250426385558 This will give you an idea as to what it's value MAY be to a collector. If you clean it, do some research as to cleaning vintage planes. You want to be very careful NOT TO DECREASE it's value.

[Marv Werner]

Mitchell

Try this website...lots of planes to peruse. You might not find your plane, but you will surely see many many others.... http://www.supertool.com/index.htm

Marv

[Mitchell Miracle]

Wow. Thanks for the link. OK. I am open to offers. HA.

[Matt Evans]

edit. the lateral adjuster makes me think it is not a stanley, but I could easiley be wrong.


I think you are right. Looked at that auction, and there is no lateral at all.


Any chance of some more pictures of the plane, both assembled and dissassembled?

Also, clean up the sides of the plane. My stanley 9 1/4 is marked on the side, and nowhere else.

[Mitchell Miracle]

OK. I took the chip breaker off and found these number on the bottom. 307 and 306. That leads me to believe that it is definately a Sargent.

[Mitchell Miracle]

I found the Sargent name on the blade. Cooooool.

[Matt Evans]

130434953196

ebay item of your plane, without the rear knob.

[Martin Cash]

Well the 306 was 6 inches long and the 307 - 7 inches long as were the 316/317.
The rear handle only appeared on the 316 and 317, but these may have used the 306 /307 lever cap.
If it is indeed a 316/317 then David Heckel's guide suggests that it has a collector's value of $250 -$500.
I have found his pricing to be a bit optimistic on some models and below market on others.
If you want to sell it , then don't clean it much at all. Collectors love that old patina.
Cheers
MC

[James Taglienti]

i have found 306 307 lever caps on a lot of different sargent planes as well as some craftsman planes that were made by sargent. there is a 307 lever cap on my #507 though i don;t know if it belongs there. probably.

That's a nice plane and it looks like it's pretty late in the game- i think the earlier sargent tailed block planes had a shell-type lever cap.

there's the possibility that the tail is older and was retrofitted to a newer plane. I don;t know sargent that well.

nice plane.

[Martin Cash]

i have found 306 307 lever caps on a lot of different sargent planes as well as some craftsman planes that were made by sargent. there is a 307 lever cap on my #507 though i don;t know if it belongs there. probably.

That's a nice plane and it looks like it's pretty late in the game- i think the earlier sargent tailed block planes had a shell-type lever cap.

there's the possibility that the tail is older and was retrofitted to a newer plane. I don;t know sargent that well.

nice plane.

The 316/317 was produced at the same time as the 306/307. 1887-1941.
The 316/317's with the rear handle came in three types. The very earliest had a lever under the lever cap and the type 2 had a shell/wheel under type of lever cap.
The type 1's are the rarest and list from $500 -$1000 according to Heckel.
It was also common practice to use interchangable parts like lever caps on different Sargent planes if they fitted rather than set up a whole new line simply to match the model number. Simple economies of scale and good business.
Cheers
MC

[Mitchell Miracle]

OK. I took a closer look at the blade and it looks like it has 317 stamped on it. It measure 7 1/8 long by 1 7/8 wide. I think it may be a 317 with rosewood handle.

[Steve Costa]

Second on the 316 /317. See David E. Heckel's book on Sargent Planes Identification and Value Guide Second Edition

[Mitchell Miracle]

Thanks guys. Looks like we have successfully identified it as a Sargent 317 type II. I found a picture of one that sold on an antique tool website and it matched it perfectly. Pretty cool that I found this underneath a work bench in a shop that I bought 16 years ago. I guess I should clean more. Ha. Thanks for all the help. I haven't decided weather to try and restore it for use, sell it, or just keep it on a shelf as a conversation piece. Thanks again.

[Martin Cash]

Thanks guys. Looks like we have successfully identified it as a Sargent 317 type II. I found a picture of one that sold on an antique tool website and it matched it perfectly. Pretty cool that I found this underneath a work bench in a shop that I bought 16 years ago. I guess I should clean more. Ha. Thanks for all the help. I haven't decided weather to try and restore it for use, sell it, or just keep it on a shelf as a conversation piece. Thanks again.
No it's not a type 2. There were three types and this is the last of them. Even though David Heckel doesn't call it a type 3, that is what it is.
Still a rare enough plane in its own right, and well worth keeping and using.
Cheers
MC

[Mitchell Miracle]

Thanks Martin. I think you are correct. I have decided to keep it and eventually use it. Good to know its history. Makes it that much cooler when you use it.

[David Keller NC]

Mitchell - A caveat; this is your plane and I would defend to the death your right to do whatever you will with it. However, be aware that the plane has a good deal of collector's value (the "tailed" block planes made by Sargent and Stanely are rare and sought after). If you are inexperienced in tool cleaning or restoration, cleaning it in any way will reduce that collector's value.

Depending on what you do to it, that reduction may be very minor (dusting it off) to catastrophic (de-rusting it, lapping the sole, wire-brushing the sides, and/or refinishing the japaning (the black "paint" on the inside)).

There are many folks that suffered severe dissapointment at a major tool auction when what they thought of as an enhancement devalued their tool's value by as much as 90%.