Glue Up Question

[Sean Troy]

I'm just getting started on reviewing plans for a dresser I'm going to build for my daughter and see the plans call for 6- 3 1/2 " strips glued up for the dresser top. Is that the best way to go or would 3 7" boards be better? I'm just learning so I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind this. The wood is Qtr. sawn Wht Oak if that makes a difference. I do understand the opposite grain orientation of each piece to avoid cupping. Thanks for any help, Sean

[Jamie Buxton]

If the wood is truly quartersawn, it doesn't present the cupping issue that flat-sawn lumber does.

And the plan's width restrictions probably just come from whatever planks the builder had on hand. Wider will work just as well.

[Prashun Patel]

Does the top call for quartersawn? If yes, then I believe it'll be plenty stable @ 7" wide, and the grain matching should be easy.

Sometimes 7" is harder to come by and plans are built using widths 4-6".

If the top is flatsawn, narrower strips might be a structural as well as an aesthetic choice.

[Sean Troy]

The plans actually call for Cherry but I have some really nice Qtr. sawn I would like to use for the top and drawer fronts, the rest flat or rift sawn wht. oak. The qtr. sawn I have is 11" wide and the left over from each piece will have a use of it's own. Shouldn't be much waste.

[Mike Cutler]

Sean

You shouldn't have any issues with two boards 11" wide. True Qsawn oak is pretty stable, and by the time it's affixed to the support structure underneath, I wouldn't expect it to cup on you.

While Qsawn material does have better, meaning less, shrink across the width than flatsawn material. It will still expand and contract with changes in humidity, so be sure to leave a little room for the top to expand and contract.

Using thinner "strips" of flatsawn wood allows the builder to use material that can generally be purchased at a reduced cost. Alternating the boards mitigates the cupping issue, and the expansion/contraction of multiple boards will be less than a solid top of the same material and grain.

[Sean Troy]

Sean



It will still expand and contract with changes in humidity, so be sure to leave a little room for the top to expand and contract.



Please bare with me, I'm fairly new at this. I'm not sure I understand what you mean in regards to leaving a little room for the top to expand and contract. Where am I leaving this room? Thanks so much, Sean

[Frank Drew]

If the top is flatsawn, narrower strips might be a structural as well as an aesthetic choice.

It would certainly be a choice, and to each his or her own, but IMO many narrow flat sawn boards would not be the most aesthetically pleasing choice. Rift or quartered work in narrow widths because their straight grain makes them blend in together better.

Sean,

I'd go with the two 11" boards for the top, and ideally single boards for the drawer fronts. And I think Mike's point was to fasten the top to the dresser case in a fashion that allows it to expand and contract seasonally, although he's quite right that that's not such an issue with quartered material.

But I disagree with his suggestion that if both are flat sawn a glued-up top will expand and contract less than a single board. And if I was going to glue up multiple boards, I'd rather deal with a tendency for a panel to cup in one direction than alternate face sides and have the panel go all serpentine on me (slight exaggeration).

[Sean Troy]

I see now about attaching the top. I think there was a recent post on the subject. I'll search for it. Thanks, Sean

[Darius Ferlas]

But I disagree with his suggestion that if both are flat sawn a glued-up top will expand and contract less than a single board. And if I was going to glue up multiple boards, I'd rather deal with a tendency for a panel to cup in one direction than alternate face sides and have the panel go all serpentine on me (slight exaggeration).
That's has been my experience too. The width of individual members is irrelevant when it comes the shrinking/expansion. I recently had two 40 inch wide glue-ups. One consisted of 3 QS walnut boards, the other of 10, also QS. Both shrank by about 1/4" (walnut). For a 21 inch oak top I'd expect just under 1/8" of movement. A 23" wide walnut coffee table I made last winter moved by exactly 1/8". The top is glued solid to the skirt with weldbond. The table is nice and flat

[Mike Cutler]

[QUOTE=Frank Drew;1525783
But I disagree with his suggestion that if both are flat sawn a glued-up top will expand and contract less than a single board. And if I was going to glue up multiple boards, I'd rather deal with a tendency for a panel to cup in one direction than alternate face sides and have the panel go all serpentine on me (slight exaggeration).[/QUOTE]

Frank

It shouldn't make any difference, but I've left glued up panels, specifically bubinga, lacewood, and jatoba in the garage through the winter and summer.
I've measured the expansion/contraction of the glueups and it's less than the same amount of a single width. The only thing I can surmise is that an individual width board expands and contracts at a uniofrom rate, while the expansion contraction of a glued up panel is an algebraic sum of the individual expansion contraction rates of each board.
Now this has no real world application as my shop can vary from -10 degrees F. to > 100 degrees F. in the course of a year. It's a gross example and I would never expect a house to go through these temp swings.

Sean

People come up with different solutions for expansion contraction of wider panels, sometimes based on the project.
I made a shelf system for our library, and three of the shelves are 30"+ wide and 10' long. The top shelf is fixed on the front edge, and irons are in the mioddle and end that allow the panel to wxpand and contract from the back, but leave the front presensce unaffected. The middle and bottom shelves are fixed in the middle and can expand contract from both the front and back.
Sometimes though, no matter what you try to do, the wood wins:(, as is the case with a Stickley wall cabinet in lacewood I made. I have to redo the top. It was one of the panels I referred to in the response to Frank.

[Sean Troy]

I'll see if I can find some furniture makers in this area to see what they would use for attaching the top. We do have some pretty wild humidity swings here in NW Kentucky. Right now it's bone dry but could change at any time. I'm sure different parts of the country use different methods. I sure do appreciate all the help I get on this forum. Thanks, Sean

[Phillip Ngan]

Hi Sean

Like you I'm starting out, and one book that I've found useful is "Chests of Drawers By Bill Hylton, William H. Hylton"

You can read the first 25 pages of the book on books.google.com, which cover cabinet making basics. Page 18 illustrates several ways of attaching a top to allow for wood movement.

[Peter Quinn]

Bill Hylton's Illustrated Cabinet Making is a great resource to see how many stiles of furniture are put together. I got it as part of a drawing class, the drawings are great and were recommended by the professor on that basis alone. It will show you at least a half dozen ways to attach your top and allow for seasonal movement.

On the board width issue, tops glued from narrow strips are the hallmark of factory furniture or things built on a budget. I see no advantage to using narrow strips except to economize. For custom pieces of your own creation it certainly makes sense to use wide boards if possible, and makes glue up a LOT easier too.

[Sean Troy]

I think with Qtr. sawn oak, it would look better also. Thanks for the book lead, Sean

[Steve Griffin]

Quarter Sawn Oak Top?

The last time I did that, it was for a 28" deep dresser top. I had to use two 14" wide planks since that was the widest of the 50 year old wood I could find....:D

-Steve