frustrated with ebay

[Robert Culver]

Ok it has been 3 atempts now to get a good 1/4 in mortise chisel. Man its not like im asking for alot just a good tool these things are out of control the last one i bid on 20.00 more and you could get a brand spanken new one from lie-nielson its not even like it was in great collectors shape either. What gives. Anybody got a good one they want to let go of?

[lowell holmes]

Why don't you buy one from Lie Nielsen?

I did.

You might want to look at the ones from Tools for Working Wood though.

[Steve Thomas]

Bid in the dying seconds. Bid what you'll be willing to pay, and add 51 cents. Ie 20.51 has won it for me many times over someone who bid 20 flat.

[Robert Culver]

buy one from lie-nielson or tfww I may end up doing that but im finding that you can sometimes get something just as good of a tool for less money. Right now its just a matter for making my tool dollars go a little further.

[David Weaver]

Unless you're sash mortising (yeah, nobody is), order one single 1/4th or 5/16th inch ray iles chisel from TFWW.

You'll never wear it out, and you'll enjoy using it more than you can imagine. I think I have 4 or 5 of the RI chisels, but the only two that I use with any regularity are 1/4th and 5/16th, and at that, I could still get along with just one or the other - it's not like a 1/4 inch tenon joint is going to give out. Most things we're debating about, the guys upstairs are using nasty long screws and loose tenons half the size of a ruler.

I tried for a while to find good pigstickers without wasting tons of time and without paying almost as much as the RI chisels. I was shooting for a 1/4th and 5/16th and it seemed like all I could find was 1/2 inch chisels and 3/8ths.

[Marv Werner]

Robert,

As a suggestion..... to prevent getting into a bidding contest, I will often use an online program that does the bidding for me. The one I use is called esnipe. It cost only pennies to use. All you do is enter the item number of the auction and type in your maximum bid. You can change your bid or cancel anytime you want, within about six seconds before the auction ends. Google esnipe and you'll go right to the website. It also eliminates the need to sit and watch the auction to it's end. You just place your bid and go back when ever you want and see if you won. Or up your bid if you feel a need to. Esnipe will even email you when the auction is ended and let you know if you have won or not. They only take money out of your account if you win. $10 will last you a long time, that is if you aren't winning auctions everyday. You bid does not appear on eBay until you win an auction. If you don't win, it doesn't show up on eBay at all.

Some might feel that sniping is not fair. Life isn't fair. ;)

Marv.

[john brenton]

I like the thrill of the bid. Sounds lame when you say it like that, but I like those final moments as the clock runs out and you wait to the last second to bid and...Oh crap, I've been logged out and have to sign in again! Ok, signed in, "Sorry, bidding has ended for this item" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Seriously, though, the bid is the fun part.



Robert,

As a suggestion..... to prevent getting into a bidding contest, I will often use an online program that does the bidding for me. The one I use is called esnipe. It cost only pennies to use. All you do is enter the item number of the auction and type in your maximum bid. You can change your bid or cancel anytime you want, within about six seconds before the auction ends. Google esnipe and you'll go right to the website. It also eliminates the need to sit and watch the auction to it's end. You just place your bid and go back when ever you want and see if you won. Or up your bid if you feel a need to. Esnipe will even email you when the auction is ended and let you know if you have won or not. They only take money out of your account if you win. $10 will last you a long time, that is if you aren't winning auctions everyday. You bid does not appear on eBay until you win an auction. If you don't win, it doesn't show up on eBay at all.

Some might feel that sniping is not fair. Life isn't fair. ;)

Marv.

[Marv Werner]

John,

I know what you mean. I've done that a lot of times, but when I really really want to win an auction, something I need more than want, esnipe gets my business. I'll still sit and watch the auction come to an end. When my name pops up as the winner, time for a happy dance. :D

Marv

[David Weaver]

Some might feel that sniping is not fair. Life isn't fair. ;)

Marv.

You bid to win at the lowest amount you can win at. Sounds pretty fair to me.

I get sniped a lot. I usually don't care...or actually, I never do, I guess. If I want something bad enough, I'll put in a max bid that someone else will have to really want the item to win it. If I don't win it and it goes cheap for 50 cents more than my max, that's life.

[Jim Koepke]

Some might feel that sniping is not fair. Life isn't fair.

It is how the game is played and if you want to win, you have to make use of all the rules.

I have not bought much lately from ebay, but if you do not snipe bid, you are not going to win much.

jtk

[Jonathan McCullough]

Kinda funny to think about it, but whom, in this discussion, are we most likely to snipe?

[Frank Drew]

I'd be in deep trouble if I won every auction that caught my eye; there are tons and tons and tons of cool stuff offered (not just tools), but it's not like I really need any of it.

[Marv Werner]

There's been more than a few times when I thought about just placing a huge ridiculous bid just to make sure I'd win. Then the thought occurred to me, thanks to my wife, someone else might be doing the same thing and I'd end up being stuck with a ridiculous end price.

A few years ago I was selling a nice Disston No.12...12PPI full size saw on eBay...two guys really really wanted it. Those two guys kept bidding and bidding until one of them finally gave up and let the other guy have it for $760. The auction caught the attention of someone on Woodnet and an endless thread began. A couple guys thought that I shouldn't have accepted that much money for a saw that clearly wasn't worth that much. I thought about it for about 20 seconds and then thought about all the saws I had previously sold for far less than they were worth. It all kind of balances out.

Probably just be my luck, someone here in SMC was the guy who bought it. If so, thank you very much. :)

[Brian Kincaid]

Marv,
Those must have been some really great pictures to get $760 for a saw.

Auction mentaility makes people stupid. I'm speaking from experience.

-Brian

[David Weaver]

You have to assume that someone who is going after a 12 tpi full size #12 for that much money has a bit of an idea what they're doing. I don't remember if I commented on that thread on woodnet.

When people overpay me for something on ebay, I usually throw something extra in the box, but if it's not because I suspect they're green, i don't give them money back.

The only time I've given someone money back outright is when I bought chisels from craftsmanstudio out of curiosity and then sold them shortly after when I realized I really didn't like their setup. Some guy had a winning bid more than the cost of new ones. I gave the guy a refund and sent him a link to craftsmanstudio as to why. He was very pleased. I was very happy to get my money back out of them.

I have sold a lot of things for a loss because I'm not much of a bargain shopper, but I've sold some things that went for more than I paid for them when I didn't expect them to, but they were specialty items, like vintage panel raisers, etc, and I can't really argue with what were probably collectors. Sometimes things are worth more than you expect. As a relative of mine says, when you're buying something unique at an auction, you're determining the market price for that instant.

[David Weaver]

Marv,
Those must have been some really great pictures to get $760 for a saw.

-Brian

Speaking of, marv, you still got pictures of it?

[Andrae Covington]

Ok it has been 3 atempts now to get a good 1/4 in mortise chisel. Man its not like im asking for alot just a good tool these things are out of control the last one i bid on 20.00 more and you could get a brand spanken new one from lie-nielson its not even like it was in great collectors shape either. What gives. Anybody got a good one they want to let go of?

One of the things that puzzles me about old tools on ebay is the relative apparent market value of things. Of all the different types of old tools on there, chisels seem consistently and persistently overvalued, IMO. Why can I buy a Stanley #4 for about the same price as one chisel? The handplane was far more complicated to build, with two or more odd-shaped cast-iron castings that had to be precision ground, two shaped wood handles, several fine-thread screws, and a hardened and tempered blade. The chisel... there's just a blade and a handle (maybe). Whoop-tee-doo.:confused: It makes even the high-end new chisels almost seem like a good deal. At least you know you'll be getting a consistent grade of steel and the width will be spot-on.

I'll put in another vote for the Ray Iles pigsticker mortise chisels. I have a 1/4 and 3/8.

As many of the replies said, you often have no choice but to snipe at the end if you want to come away with something. I have never used any of the sniping services, I just do it "manually". Obviously a broadband internet connection helps, but there is still a risk of a hiccup and not getting your bid in time. I don't always do this though, sometimes I still put in a bid the day before or whatever. People can easily get caught up in the must-have-MUST-HAVE and will put in a maximum bid way beyond what the item is worth. It doesn't matter if your bid goes in one second before the end, if their maximum bid is higher than yours, they're getting it. The main reason for all the sniping is to keep the price of the item as low as possible, hoping there's just the first bidder and his maximum bid was low, and no one else will bid until you come in so late no one can get in behind you. Potentially better for the bidder(s), but not as good for the seller, who wants people to throw in bids all along the way, bumping the price up and up. With so many people using sniping services though, this often happens anyway, it just all happens in the last minute.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Can't remember the last time I bought something on Ebay. I've bought many vintage tools and many other vintage items. If I were to average the value of everything I bought versus the money paid, I'm probably a bit ahead. However, in the hard dollar analysis, I've got to say I got burned by bad descriptions more than a few times. I may have even got caught up in auction fever once or twice, but never paid $760 for a #12!

For tools, I'd rather hunt through a flea market, or go to a MWTC sale or a Brown/FTJ sale or auction. Much safer and you know exactly what you're getting (and many times at equivalent pricing).

[Gary Herrmann]

I watched an auction on the bay recently. Didn't bid, was just curious.

It was for a 3/8" LN corner chisel. The pic was the stock pic of 3 corners from the LN site, but it clearly said in the title and the body of the auction it was a stock photo and the auction was for ONE 3/8" corner that goes for $75 new.

A guy bid it all the way up to over $128. I was so incredulous, I stopped watching.

Reminded me of that blog entry the Schwarz wrote about LNs outperforming his 401k. Talk about return on investment.

eBay has the psychology of winning thing nailed.

[george wilson]

I just bought a hand forged little vise called a box vise. It can be screwed to the edge of a bench up to about 1 1/2" thick. I think this one is fairly early,because most of them don't have a fancy little ball on the end of the housing covering the tail end of the vise screw.

I also bought a beautiful little 18th.C. hand vise some time ago. Very accurate filing,octagonal tapered long little handle with a knob on the end that is football shaped from the side view. Never was rusty,either.

There are a number of mortise chisels on the collectible tools list right now. I didn't pay attention to their sizes as I'm not looking for one. they were the old English pig sticker type.

Also saw an 18th.C. J.Cam gouge with a modern file handle on it. I have some 18th.C. gouges. Didn't bid on it. You can go broke getting "bargains"!!! Actually,I have a 3/16" J.Cam mortising chisel. Never used much.


I saw a LN #9 miter plane in bronze,apparently rare. It was buy now for close to $900.00 IIRC. Mine is cast iron. Common as dirt,I guess.:)

[Marv Werner]

Nothing special about the pictures, but all my pictures are pretty good.

People buy things for countless reasons. It's not for me to judge or question their motivations. After all, we are talking "auctions".

Took some digging around in my folders and files but I did find a picture of the saw.

Marv

[Gary Herrmann]

Marv, if I ever sell anything on the bay, I'm gonna ask you to sell it for me. And cut you in on a percentage, of course.

[george wilson]

I have 2 of those in pretty fine condition. Maybe I could increase my retirement income with them????:)

[Robert Culver]

Im not into the sniping thing(yet i guess) i just give the tool a visual and plop a bid on it as to what I think would be a far price. I know thats not going to win many auctions but I need to keep it real to. That pig sticker from tfww is high on my list right now. I may just add it to my cart when I get the bow saw hardware. :)

[Marv Werner]

Gary,

Selling on eBay is basically a crap shoot. Ten percent of the time ya do ok, the other 90 percent is just a lot of work for very little return. I just got very lucky on that sale. A good many of sales are at a lose. So many people don't give thought to how much time is spent by the seller with finding packing materials, packing things up, get the stuff to the post office or whatever and having to deal with all the different ways to ship things. Then if it's an overseas shipment, it's another can of worms. Then there are the crooks out there who will claim they didn't receive their item when in fact they did. A seller can protect themselves with domestic sales but not overseas sales. All they have to do is file a claim with PayPal who is owned by eBay and the money is returned to the buyer in an estimated 80 percent of the time. The buyers are top priority as far as eBay is concerned. The buyers can give bad feedback on the sellers but the sellers can't do the same to the buyers. And to top it all off, the seller has to pay eBay and PayPal a large percentage of the end selling price. A big chunk of that $760 went directly to eBay and PayPal.:mad: I don't mind a fair and reasonable fee for their services, but they take way more than is warranted.

I do have to say that the saw was sort of rare. It is unusual to find a No.12 with 12PPI. Especially in such good condition and restored and sharpened and ready to use. Funny thing about that Woodnet thread....it started when the bidding was only at $500. While the yammering was going on, the price kept going up. Hell, I was happy when the bidding had reached $300. :D I have sold many No.12,s prior to and after that sale that looked even better. Some for only around a disappointing $100, but it's the only 12PPI I've ever run across. I see quite a few No.12...12PPI panel saws though. A saw is considered to be a panel saw if it's 24" or shorter.

[David Weaver]

If an uncommon saw is going to bring money, I can see why that one did. One of the nicest disston handles I've seen, you cleaned it up very nicely and did a good job tidying up the brass bits, and the plate is clear with nice patina.

About the only thing better (money wise) would've been if the plate was bright and new with no evidence of patina and a perfect etch. I haven't seen that.

I have a hunch that the polish level on the 12s has allowed them to avoid pitting to the level of a lot of other saws. It could be that they were just used less or taken better care of, but both of mine have very patinated plates, but no pitting, and a lot of them look like that. My 7s and D8s are rust magnets in my garage shop. My 12s aren't. I paid a little less than a tenth of that for each of my 12s and they're obviously not nearly as tidy as that. I wouldn't sell them for anything - they're so nice to use, they keep you going, even when the project you're working on isn't that inspiring. They're hard on files, though!

[Jonathan McCullough]

I have a hunch that the polish level on the 12s has allowed them to avoid pitting to the level of a lot of other saws. It could be that they were just used less or taken better care of, but both of mine have very patinated plates, but no pitting, and a lot of them look like that. My 7s and D8s are rust magnets in my garage shop. My 12s aren't. I paid a little less than a tenth of that for each of my 12s and they're obviously not nearly as tidy as that. I wouldn't sell them for anything - they're so nice to use, they keep you going, even when the project you're working on isn't that inspiring. They're hard on files, though!

More anecdotal evidence about the 12s being different--I think Marv and I had some correspondence speculating about differences in the 12's. I have some other, non-12, non-Disston saws that are also like that.

[Rick Markham]

I saw a LN #9 miter plane in bronze,apparently rare. It was buy now for close to $900.00 IIRC. Mine is cast iron. Common as dirt,I guess.:)

Yeah, I have seen a couple of those from time to time myself George. I believe there is one on there now. As well as the White bronze no 1. woodcraft anniversary edition for $550 buy now. Its all about what you want and why I guess.

I think to some people bidding is like gambling, the money doesn't seem "real" before you know it, that saw your really wanted cost ya $760, and now you have to hide it and the bank book from the wife.

Me I always wait until the last second to bid. Bidding on an item ahead of time tends to make something seem "desirable" to someone. I put in what I am willing to pay, and if I win great! If I don't then oh well... another one will be along shortly. Never tried a sniping program, it's definitely fair, I don't need to win any more auctions than I already do, usually if I want something I will get it for less than I am willing to pay, if its more than I am willing to pay I cease to be interested. But I am not a collector, I might be a tool enthusiast, but I don't need a limited edition "who's-a-jah-mah-what's-it", just cuz it's a "deal"