Exploring design possibilities - dry run

[Roger Chandler]

I am in the process of trying to decide the exact form I want to use on a lidded vessel using two pieces of wood that match the colors of our local University. [purple & gold] I have a purple heart blank and a yellow heart blank that will have a finial when finished, using some spalted holly that John Keeton sent to me.

I wanted to do a dry run to explore the design on another piece or two before I committed to the wood for the project, and I have folks who want me to turn them something, and I can give these away, when finished.

I only had time yesterday to do the bottom of one piece that would be a possible shape [I'm not totally satisfied, and may make the corners into the legs] and it needs a couple more coats of finish, and to be buffed.]

This is my first attempt at a square edge bowl, and I will probably do a couple more trial runs and also do a lid with the finial, and will post when they get finished [I have to find the time to get to the lathe -been very busy with my job]

[John Keeton]

Roger, pretty good dry run!

You did not actually ask for input, but if wanted, here are some possible thoughts. The bowl could be quite a bit smaller (or the square larger) so there is more overhang, and the bowl sides could be more rounded and less perpendicular.

Depending on the size you end up with, the wings could be a bit thinner, as well.

Good idea on doing a prototype or two to get the design downpat before doing the 'real thing!'

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, pretty good dry run!

You did not actually ask for input, but if wanted, here are some possible thoughts. The bowl could be quite a bit smaller (or the square larger) so there is more overhang, and the bowl sides could be more rounded and less perpendicular.

Depending on the size you end up with, the wings could be a bit thinner, as well.

Good idea on doing a prototype or two to get the design downpat before doing the 'real thing!'

John,

First of all, input from you is always welcomed! ;) I like to run ideas up the flag pole, so to speak, and see what others may say, because I am not all that experienced with different types of forms, [except table legs] and there are so many different forms that I have not even explored as of yet [I think that is why over the last year my time at the lathe is 10X more than my table saw :eek:.

I agree with your assessment as to the overhang. I was trying to get all I could out of the walnut blank, and sometimes less is more. I also thought a thinner wing would be better after I took it off the lathe :D so this is still in the 'exploration" stage of things.

I think I am going to do one out of cherry, and hopefully get a lid designed as well. I am using your idea of making a sketch before putting tools to wood, and I have a couple of different ones, including one that brings the corners down to make legs for it to sit on.

Thanks for the help, John! Also, thank you so much for the holly that will be used for the finial, it is much appreciated! If you see anything else, chime in........:)

[Tim Rinehart]

Roger, this may provide an example close to what John was describing. This is a bowl alone (no top) I made last year from a block of osage orange.

Hardest part is always that little bit of 'wing' at each corner. You need to finish it (turning wise) before removing too much extra stock from inboard areas. There is a big tendency, as you get that wing thin, to move on you while trying to cut it.

Hope that helps. Sounds like a nice project. It makes me think I should consider a lid for mine.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Roger - good advise so far! Just going to throw a couple of photos at you for an additional example.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=1976
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=1975

[Roger Chandler]

THANK YOU!

Steve & Tim,

Thanks for the pics. I really like the osage orange, and the crotch wood made a great bowl Steve.

I appreciate the encouragement and the examples from you both.

Steve, what do you think about the form with the corners making up legs for the bowl to sit on, and then a lid with finial?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Roger - I am sure the design would work but I would strive to make everything as delicate as possible. With that particular design, you will have many different curves - all needing to flow together for the piece to look balanced.

Have fun with it! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger - I am sure the design would work but I would strive to make everything as delicate as possible. With that particular design, you will have many different curves - all needing to flow together for the piece to look balanced.

Have fun with it! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!


I think you have a good point about all the different curves needing to flow together to look balanced, and the need to keep it delicate. I will try my best to keep that in mind as I refine this in both my sketch up and in the turning itself.

I think I am going to do at least one more dry run with a piece of cherry before I commit to the purple heart and yellow heart, just to get it "fixed" as to the design.

I appreciate your input, Steve...:) Thanks!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, this may provide an example close to what John was describing. This is a bowl alone (no top) I made last year from a block of osage orange.

Hardest part is always that little bit of 'wing' at each corner. You need to finish it (turning wise) before removing too much extra stock from inboard areas. There is a big tendency, as you get that wing thin, to move on you while trying to cut it.

Hope that helps. Sounds like a nice project. It makes me think I should consider a lid for mine.


Tim,

What are the dimensions and the thickness of this osage blank? I ask because I am trying to determine how thick in order to get the curve underneath the wings. Thanks!

[Tim Rinehart]

Tim,

What are the dimensions and the thickness of this osage blank? I ask because I am trying to determine how thick in order to get the curve underneath the wings. Thanks!

Roger,
The sides are 6" x 6", it started as 2" thick, but is now 1.75" overall height after removal of the tenon. (essentially started with nice 6x6x2 blank from Woodcraft bargain bin...when it was still $2/lb).

The thickness of the 'wings' is about 3/16" at thickest, and a heavy 1/8" at thinnest. I was shooting for about 1/8" overall which is thickness of bowl section.
The bowl section is 3 1/2" at the top outside diameter, and the amount of bowl protruding the top is about 5/16".

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,
The sides are 6" x 6", it started as 2" thick, but is now 1.75" overall height after removal of the tenon. (essentially started with nice 6x6x2 blank from Woodcraft bargain bin...when it was still $2/lb).

The thickness of the 'wings' is about 3/16" at thickest, and a heavy 1/8" at thinnest. I was shooting for about 1/8" overall which is thickness of bowl section.
The bowl section is 3 1/2" at the top outside diameter, and the amount of bowl protruding the top is about 5/16".


Thanks Tim,

That is about the same size as the blank I used in my "dry run" yesterday, and I was not sure about how abrupt I wanted to take the curve under the wings, so I sort of got a little on the perpendicular side with them, but now I know I can get a more flowing cure, and still have room for the bowl to be stable when it sits.

Thanks for replying, I appreciate it!

[David E Keller]

I like the idea very much, and the idea to do a trial run is a good one. FWIW, I would consider eliminating the portion of the bowl that sticks up above the square portion... If stock thickness is limited, this would allow for a more dramatic curve to the legs. With that style, the lid would be inset on a small ledge. I also think this keeps the bowl portion from interrupting the curve of the piece visually. That may not fit with your vision of the piece, but it's a form that I have been thinking about. Good luck with the project!

[Roger Chandler]

I like the idea very much, and the idea to do a trial run is a good one. FWIW, I would consider eliminating the portion of the bowl that sticks up above the square portion... If stock thickness is limited, this would allow for a more dramatic curve to the legs. With that style, the lid would be inset on a small ledge. I also think this keeps the bowl portion from interrupting the curve of the piece visually. That may not fit with your vision of the piece, but it's a form that I have been thinking about. Good luck with the project!


Thanks David,

I actually like your idea for making the curve more dramatic without the rim above the wings. It would allow for more depth in the bowl portion, and I like the ledge idea on the inside for the lid to sit on!

I think I need to do another sketch. Thanks for the ideas, Doc. That is a workable plan, and I think it would match up well with the lid and finial combination, and allow for the corners to be made into legs a bit more easily.

Grateful to you, Sir! :)

[Roger Chandler]

I like the idea very much, and the idea to do a trial run is a good one. FWIW, I would consider eliminating the portion of the bowl that sticks up above the square portion... If stock thickness is limited, this would allow for a more dramatic curve to the legs. With that style, the lid would be inset on a small ledge. I also think this keeps the bowl portion from interrupting the curve of the piece visually. That may not fit with your vision of the piece, but it's a form that I have been thinking about. Good luck with the project!


Guys,

I wanted to say thank you again for your help on this "design refinement" as to what I need to do to get to my goal with the purple heart and yellow heart.

David, I really like your idea of eliminating the rim above the wing/legs and make for a more dramatic curve, and the ledge for an inset lid. John, thanks for the tip on the less perpendicular sides with a more flowing curve, and the holly for the finial, and Steve for the tip on delicate size and balance with the curves so to make them flow together, and Tim for the pics and the help figuring the size I could get out of a blank about the same size as the one I am going to use.

I am still going to do at least one more [possibly 2] dry runs, and will post when I can get enough time to turn them, which I hope won't be too long..........those book cases my wife wants may have to wait till spring :eek::D, so I may spend more time in the shop than in the house anyway! :eek:

No, seriously, I have a great wife who is very supportive, and she will understand [I hope ;)] but she knows I will get to her bookcases before long!

Thanks again guys!

[Thom Sturgill]

Here's a square bowl with legs - no defined bowl shape like your prototype. I have also seen the legs made more curved inward so they set on the points.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=218&pictureid=2147
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=218&pictureid=2147

[Roger Chandler]

Here's a square bowl with legs - no defined bowl shape like your prototype. I have also seen the legs made more curved inward so they set on the points.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=218&pictureid=2147
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=218&pictureid=2147


Tom,

What a really great bowl! I love the zebra wood, and a superb finish. That is a lot like what I was thinking, except to make it deeper, and it will have the ledge on the inside rim area so a lid can sit on it.

Thank you for taking the time to pull this from the archives, and post it for me. A really nice example of a legged bowl!!! Thanks again! :)