My trip to the Kutztown flea markets.

[george wilson]

I took 2 younger friends and went to the flea market extravaganza at Kutztown,Pa. on Saturday,then to the other Renningers at Adamstown on Sunday.

The tool situation just isn't what it used to be at all. The good old dealers have long since retired or died off.

I found only about 3 or 4 dealers,and their selections were limited. One dealer in Schupp's Grove in Adamstown more disappointed than astonished me by quoting $675.00 for a related set of 9 Buck pattern maker's offset gouges with their handles painted dark red long ago. That should have reduced their value to collectors. I didn't need them at all,fortunately.

We found only 1 set of letter stamps with serifs. It was a 1/4" set,and not the greatest set I've seen. I advised my friends to buy it. It was only $12.00. I've usually paid more like $40.00 each,and have spent 39 years getting everything from 1/32" to 1/2" with serifs.

At the Black angus,there used to be a great,high class dealer. He died long ago. He even had things like saw maker's anvils.

I passed a thumbhole Disston in good shape for $12.00. I'm still wondering why I did that. It was at a table where the dealer wasn't a tool guy. I have several saws,but could have sold it to someone here. Several months ago,I bought a thumbhole here in the classifieds,and paid much more. I gave it to my friend and journeyman Jon. I knew he liked them.

There was a good dealer(in terms of what he sold) at a place called Hummer's. A huge quonset hut near Renninger's in Adamstown. They tore that down and built a big building called American Antiques(I think).

It is full of glass cases with things that you can't see very well,and usually with prices you can't see. I hate those,but they are the growing trend. The dealers are never there,so you can't make a deal,and have to find someone to unlock the cases.

I don't need anything really,fortunately having got my tools back years ago when they were reasonable,and several good dealers were around.

I ended up with a nice hammer,a hot punch,and a bag of dark pretzels for my wife. Near the end,I found a dealer with a Navy Arms Creedmore rifle. It is a muzzle loader,and cost $1200.00 new. It was still new,with box and accessories. Got it for $500.00. It is a reasonably nice rifle for a repro,but I'd never have bought it for $1200.00,and could sell it for more than I paid. It is a Rigby type. Pretty graceful,but kicks like the devil if you use a 420 grain bullet. The bullets are a bit over 1" long,.45 cal ! That's just the noses!

My friends got a nice bench vise,a hand forged box joint early vise,and a leg vise. Both were reasonable,because they are missing a few parts we can make on my lathes. Also,they got an early hand forged silver smith's hammer,and a planishing hammer,probably user made. Also,a nice wooden bow about 6' tall. Several other little things I can't recall.

If you count the motel room,food,and gas,my purchases were pretty expensive,but my aim was to show my friends where the good stuff USED to be! It has gotten down right depressing.

[David Weaver]

I haven't gone on the weekend, but my assessment is generally the same. There is some nice stuff in cases here or there, but there is never anyone around, and in the case where you can't see most prices, the ones you can see quickly tell you that you really have no need to ask about the ones you can't see.

Most of the mid-range stuff that can be used and bought for a decent price has made its way to ebay. If it's still at a flea somewhere - at least one where people can get to every day - it's probably because it's overpriced, at least for the condition.

Most of the stuff, however, is complete junk - bent screwdrivers and such, maybe a moulding plane or two that looks like weathered barn siding.

$675 for a set of crank necked gouges with paint on them is pretty salty!

Other than one flea market here, I don't really get in the car to look for tools, because the 2 or 3 decent tools I see for a decent price in any given trip are tools I already have or tools I know I'll never have a use for.

[Jonathan McCullough]

I see a lot of okay tools with wildly optimistic price tags, or tools that need cleaning/painting/repair with very low prices. Let's face it, not a lot of people are interested in buying a brace with a sticky ratchet on the chance they can take it apart, derust fix and lube it, and then put it back together again. Same goes for a lot of other tools. On the other hand you sometimes run into folks who do a little research on a well-known auction site and find a gold-plated chisel which was fashioned by Leonardo da Vinci himself using a forge powered solely by angel's sighs, and featuring a handle fashioned from a true piece of the cross; so they use that as their starting price for negotiations on a rusty old chisel of unknown provenance. Sometimes I think they're hoarders who use impossibly high prices so they won't have to part with their Preciouses. Maybe they've been eeking out a living by selling rusty Bailey #4's to unsuspecting noobs for $100 apiece. (Rare, Collectible, Check It Out!!!!). It's a dog-eat-dog world but for myself I think Quaker business practices should prevail: don't sell something for more or less than it's actually worth.

[Tony Zaffuto]

My wife and I were planning on going to the fall antique street show in Gettysburg this past Saturday and then drive to Adamstown on Sunday. Shupps Grove has been a real disappointment over the past few years and the last time I was there (this past spring) there was only one gentleman that had any tools to speak of (older gentleman, with prices that were unrealistic).

Towards the end of October, Fine Tool Journal has their semi-annual "Brown's Auction" in Harrisburg (think it is the 24th). On the day before, there is usually a good tool sale at the auction venue. For more info, check the Fine Tool Journal website.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe tool collecting has just been a craze.

Maybe in a few years it will be like beany babies and some folks will hang on to everything.

Then in a decade or two, it will all start to shake out and we will see tools at yard sales and flea markets again.

One can only hope.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Tony - I assume from your post (and pardon me for bad comprehension if I'm not getting it) that you didn't go to Gettysburg? I grew up there, still shuffle through the new oxford antique shops when I go home, but I've been through them enough that I see the same things over and over, and I took all of the decent moulding planes out of those places already. Some of the places think of themselves as "galleries" and have stuff like ruined mallets for $100. I guess they're paying for the glass cases. I can get there and back in 10 minutes, so there's no loss if I don't find anything, but I'd be disappointed if they weren't on my way.

Every once in a while, there's something at Black Rose in Hanover, but just a booth or two, and it's usually not worth the trip to me even though it's less than 10 minutes away from new oxford.

I haven't seen anything near there other than the guy in Fayetteville on 30. He's not a go-to everything guy, but he has a lot of stuff, he's got honest prices and you can deal a little if you have cash. I don't know how you get back to dubois from gettysburg, but that's only a viable option if you take 30 west to the turnpike.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Dave,

We didn't go to Gettysburg this past weekend. Usually we make both the spring and fall shows & head to Adamstown the day after, but not this time. I'm through that area at least once a month, and have found lots of antique stores, but few pickings! Fayetteville, however, can be productive, with dealers in the two buildings located on opposite sides of Rt. 30. The guy in the building on the north side of the highway is usually in there on Sundays and readily discounts his usually fair prices even further.

This weekend is the final Hazen flea market, Sat. & Sun. To get to Hazen, you get off at Exit 81 on I-80 and travel north on Rt. 26 about 4 or 5 miles. Always worthwhile. Last month I got a pristine corrugated 607, with near perfect japanning, perfect wood. Had to pay a non-gloatworthy price of $110. Also a patent date MF shave for $3.

You ought to hit the Brown/FTJ sale later in Oct.

T.Z.

[David Weaver]

October and WIA and the good fall sales always interfere with some work-related responsibilities.

I have done better with the FTJ sale on their web site, though, than I ever have going around to antique markets. I just wish I could remember when the sale starts. I know the deals for the non-newsletter sales and the auctions are probably better, but I also remember to look into that after the fact, too.

[Andrae Covington]

...On the other hand you sometimes run into folks who do a little research on a well-known auction site and find a gold-plated chisel which was fashioned by Leonardo da Vinci himself using a forge powered solely by angel's sighs, and featuring a handle fashioned from a true piece of the cross; so they use that as their starting price for negotiations on a rusty old chisel of unknown provenance. Sometimes I think they're hoarders who use impossibly high prices so they won't have to part with their Preciouses...

LOL :p And I think that was only a slight exaggeration of the truth.

Reading through this thread was a surprise to me. Based on forum posts and even magazine articles over the years, I've always envied neanders in New England for the seemingly limitless supply of old hand tools available at flea markets and garage sales at cheap prices. It sounds like the supply has almost dried up.

Out here... I dunno, do we even have flea markets in Oregon? All I see are antique malls, with everything in glass cases and the scant few tools priced as one-of-a-kind museum pieces. And the few garage/yard sales I've browsed don't feature anything that wasn't purchased at Sears or Harbor Freight in the past 20 years.

As David Weaver said, most of it has gone to ebay or, I would add, craigslist.

[george wilson]

I have always enjoyed the tool flea markets that the EAIA members put up at their meetings here in Williamsburg.

I've gotten many chasing tools, and a Norris jack plane,and other high quality items at them.

They don't price their tools sky high,because everyone knows what they are worth ! They may not be cheap,but are priced right.

[John Toigo]

The last time I was @ Schupp's Grove it was half empty. I think E-Bay has really changed that business. Easier to snap a pic & post it than to get up @ 4 am, drive to the flea market & unload the van, etc., etc., etc.

[harry strasil]

Saturday I went to the Brownville annual fall flea mkt last weekend, just to get some wooden roses for my daughter. There have been no decent tool venders there for several years, so I haven't been going, and I have most of what I want, and need. But as I walked from where I parked the van to the flower vendor I spied a Pin Maul that I have looked for for many years. I don't really need it, but always wanted one, so the vendor is $2 richer, and I am happy. LOL

Sunday I took the wifey down to KC to see her grandsons and also to deliver their birthday presents from their mother and grandmother, and stopped at Woodcraft, its amazing what you can get in a brown bag for 15% off. LOL

[ben grossman]

LOL :p And I think that was only a slight exaggeration of the truth.

Reading through this thread was a surprise to me. Based on forum posts and even magazine articles over the years, I've always envied neanders in New England for the seemingly limitless supply of old hand tools available at flea markets and garage sales at cheap prices. It sounds like the supply has almost dried up.

Out here... I dunno, do we even have flea markets in Oregon? All I see are antique malls, with everything in glass cases and the scant few tools priced as one-of-a-kind museum pieces. And the few garage/yard sales I've browsed don't feature anything that wasn't purchased at Sears or Harbor Freight in the past 20 years.

As David Weaver said, most of it has gone to ebay or, I would add, craigslist.


There's a little shop in... uh... Multnomah Village I think (I don't know what it is called, just a little junk shop). Some guys that do woodworking I guess in the back but collect and sell junk in the front. I've bought some planes there. I probably overpaid being a newbie, but it is about the only place I know of that sells much in antique tools. I have no idea what the place is called, and I probably shouldn't post it on the internet until I have what I need. :D

I did find I think to be a decent base #5 in Vancouver for $15, though I am worried the frog needs replacing, and it definitely needs a new blade. I'm still shiny-new-out-of-the-wrapper, though so I'm not sure I know what it needs yet. :p Selection out here does seem to be pretty minimal, I've had a hard time finding stuff.

[Andrae Covington]

There's a little shop in... uh... Multnomah Village I think (I don't know what it is called, just a little junk shop). Some guys that do woodworking I guess in the back but collect and sell junk in the front. I've bought some planes there. I probably overpaid being a newbie, but it is about the only place I know of that sells much in antique tools. I have no idea what the place is called, and I probably shouldn't post it on the internet until I have what I need. :D

I did find I think to be a decent base #5 in Vancouver for $15, though I am worried the frog needs replacing, and it definitely needs a new blade. I'm still shiny-new-out-of-the-wrapper, though so I'm not sure I know what it needs yet. :p Selection out here does seem to be pretty minimal, I've had a hard time finding stuff.

Multnomah Village isn't exactly large, should be easy to figure out if I'm in the area. I don't have any particular reason to go to that part of the city these days though, so your source is pretty safe.;)

I'll admit I haven't put a lot of effort into it, but when I got into hand tools I quickly decided trying to find them locally would be a waste of effort, and went to ebay. However, back in August on craigslist one day I saw a listing for a yard sale of old hand tools. It was northeast of Vancouver somewhere in a semi-rural neighborhood. Despite my doubts (and a bit of a drive), when I got there it was indeed multiple tables worth. It was a mix of woodworking, mechanic, farming, who-knows-what. I thought most of his prices were reasonable. The handplanes may have been a little high, but they weren't outrageous. I got the impression that he does it every year, so might look out for that next summer.

[george wilson]

Tony,I think you are talking about the same guy at Schupp's Grove. He also had a "set" of Buck carving tools with the red painted handles. About 11 of them,for $150.00. I just don't get how he wanted $675.00 for the crank neck gouges,and I didn't bother to ask him about that craziness.

[ben grossman]

Multnomah Village isn't exactly large, should be easy to figure out if I'm in the area. I don't have any particular reason to go to that part of the city these days though, so your source is pretty safe.;)

I'll admit I haven't put a lot of effort into it, but when I got into hand tools I quickly decided trying to find them locally would be a waste of effort, and went to ebay. However, back in August on craigslist one day I saw a listing for a yard sale of old hand tools. It was northeast of Vancouver somewhere in a semi-rural neighborhood. Despite my doubts (and a bit of a drive), when I got there it was indeed multiple tables worth. It was a mix of woodworking, mechanic, farming, who-knows-what. I thought most of his prices were reasonable. The handplanes may have been a little high, but they weren't outrageous. I got the impression that he does it every year, so might look out for that next summer.

Thanks for the tip, I will try and watch out for it!

The junk shop is easy to find, I think on the North side of the street right at the main Y intersection.

There was a guy a while back that looked like he was selling off a whole woodworking shop on CL, some old arn stuff, all kinds of hand tools. I tried to email him more than once, but he never replied. He reposted the ad, too, and I tried both times. :(

So far I've gotten a nice Union #4 (that may not have a flat sole), two Stanley Bailey #5's, and a Keen Kutter KK8. I've about $150 in all of them I think, and most of them came from that shop. I've been looking for a nice adjustable mouth block plane, but no luck. Several cheap little block planes there, though. I decided I need to stop now and fettle these before I get any more (until I find out I needs parts...).

[Pam Niedermayer]

My sister lived in Kutztown during the '70's and '80's, so I went to that market many times. Best thing I found there regularly was American cheese, so much better than the standard processes junk. :)

Pam

[Tony Zaffuto]

LIL.

Earlier today, I made my final trip to the Hazen, PA flea market (held the first weekend of each month, from April through October, located on Rt. 28, 5 miles north from Exit 87 on I-80).

This month, I got two pieces of Stanley NOS, in the box. A 71 router plane and a 271 little brother router. Both were made in England and both are brand spanking new, never having touched wood. Total price of $30 for both (no instructions in either box). Didn't need either, but I couldn't pass them up!

[Bill Rusnak]

I was just in the Adamstown area this past weekend myself. We go a few times a year since it's only about an hour's drive. My wife has much better luck with the items she collects than I do with tools. I too have visited that table in Schupp's Grove and wondered where the gentleman comes up with his prices. I always think to myself that his wife is trying to get him to thin down his collection, and he prices things so high that he'll never really need to let anything go. :D

The Adams Antiques mall has a dealer with some very interesting items, but again at premium prices. It seems the only way to get a good deal is to not be an educated buyer and end up with something that's broken. I found a really great saw vise that had been broken and welded in a way that it wouldn't even open, a hand cranked grinder that didn't crank very well, and a smart little wooden spokeshave with striped threads for the adjusting nuts.

I wonder what the point is of paying for a booth in an antique mall or a table at a flea market and the wasted time just to overprice your goods so high that they don't sell? :confused:

[george wilson]

You see the same in gun shows. I have heard it said that it is the only way some of these guys get any social contact. I do know 1 guy who ket me waiting when I really wanted to buy something,and had bought a $500.00 item previously from him.

He kept on,trying to impress someone he didn't even know with how smart he was. I walked off. there was no excuse for ignoring a paying cash customer.

This same guy had called me one night. I didn't know him from Adam. He wanted to engage me in a discussion about some esoteric thing he had his mind on. I didn't feel well,and did not want to talk much.

He thought it was profound that a Colt sheriff's model single action would just fit into a golden mean rectangle. I say it's just dumb luck in that particular case.

[David Weaver]

He probably thought he was one step away from being able to put a lawn chair in your shop and sit around and shoot the breeze while you work.

There are a couple of shops around here like that. A few people who work, and a bunch of guys who show up and put their chairs out and try to turn the place into a social lounge.

The gun show and computer show stuff has taken a big hit from the internet. The couple of gun shows I've gone to, there was a lot of stuff I could've gotten anywhere else and people walking around with rifles over their shoulder trying to get more for them than what they cost new without paying to set up (They were just current rifles, like a basic ruger #1, etc). Too much chattery BS going on, too.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Dave,

Would you happen to have been at the Pittsburgh gun show that was held at Pittsburgh Mills a few weeks back? If so, how was it?

Two decades or three ago, when those shows were all held at the Monroeville Expomart, real bargains abounded then everything started shifting to tactical, commando and Chinese knives & AK47 knock-offs.

T.Z.

[David Weaver]

Tony - I haven't been to any recently. I kind of wore out on that hobby. They were all in the expo-mart when I went, but this is since 2000 and they were as you describe - pretty worthless to me, as i'm not into the whole plastic tactical thing. I wonder if they got killed by the internet deal-wise, too. If you're a dealer and you have stock now, you can just list it on an online auction a couple bucks cheaper than other people instead of having to buy a booth and dump it at bargain prices.

A lot of times at the expomart, you could go and go through the gun show and a computer show on the same day at the same location (i was going for the computer show). then, the schedules got off for a while and they were opposite a model railroad show, and I stopped going to all of them together.

I remember the guy walking around with Ruger 1s because at the time I wanted one figuring they were a good rifle for a reloader, and was surprised someone would be trying to sell stock no-option guns for $150 more than they sell for at a shop in butler. Never did get one.

[george wilson]

I like guns that were made for quality. I don't care if I ever see another assault rifle knock off. Or tanto knife,or any of the other ugly black anodized aluminum handled half serrated blade "tactical" folding knives,either. Camo is out,too. By the way,what's with all these "tactical" flashlights?

This ought to rile up a lot of macho types!:)

[Tony Zaffuto]

Dave,

We were probably at the Expomart shows many times at the same time. I too remember going through both the gun shows and computer shows. I accumulate Stevens "falling block" .22's and they used to be a dime a dozen. Damn things have gone up so much that I hesitate buying anymore and am considering unloading some of mine.

George,

I can't understand the tactical infatuation that has been going through the gun industry. Plastic stocks, parkerized finishes for guys who buy them, that will probably never take them out to shoot in the weather they were made for!

T.Z.

[Bill Rusnak]

By the way,what's with all these "tactical" flashlights?

This ought to rile up a lot of macho types!:)

Do you want to shoot at what you can't see? Not riled up, just sharing some rational perspective on something I've had some training in. Confessions of someone that DOES like the go fast tactical stuff, but doesn't enjoy the gun show crowd either.

Bill

[george wilson]

What makes them tactical? Can you use them as clubs? They look pretty heavy duty.

[Bill Rusnak]

What makes them tactical? Can you use them as clubs? They look pretty heavy duty.

Yes, some are made as impact weapons to be used in place of a baton or as a last chance weapon if your primary weapon is lost or suffers a malfunction.

What I think of as a tactical light though is much smaller and its differences from a standard light are all internal. They're designed with special bezels and switches to absorb constant recoil forces when attached to a weapon.

But enough of that...this thread is officially in danger of being hijacked.

[David Weaver]

Dave,

We were probably at the Expomart shows many times at the same time. I too remember going through both the gun shows and computer shows. I accumulate Stevens "falling block" .22's and they used to be a dime a dozen. Damn things have gone up so much that I hesitate buying anymore and am considering unloading some of mine.



I wonder if guns are the same way as stuff that goes on the PWW blog - one shows up in a magazine as *the* vintage rifle to have as a play toy, and all of the sudden, it costs more than new production, even if it shoots a 5 inch group at 100 yards.

By the time I got into hunting, nothing old of any quality was cheap unless it was totally worn out.

Your stevens 22s are a lot like george's carving tools. It's good you got them when you did.