Speaking of bow/frame saws

[john brenton]

I've made several, but I would like a professionally made one. The ECE's look pretty sweet ($80 is not so sweet though), but I'll be going to Atlanta in a few weeks and planned to check out the frame saws at Highland. Anyone here have one? Comments?

It's called the "continental"...ooooohhh. Continental.
http://vodpod.com/watch/572257-snl-christopher-walken-the-continental

[Jerome Hanby]

When I was researching bow saws, I was looking at the blade on that continental and seems like I ran across some knock against it. I bought one of those turbo cut Japanese blades (maybe form Highland, I can't recall) and some day I'll actually build the darn saw...

[john brenton]

I wasn't too interested in the "turbo cut", and that price is out of this world. I liked the under $50 price of the frame though. I like the idea of having one frame saw I can use with cross, rip, and scroll saw blades...and if I'm not mistaken I think you can with these. I'll look out for that bad review, I was unable to find any.


When I was researching bow saws, I was looking at the blade on that continental and seems like I ran across some knock against it. I bought one of those turbo cut Japanese blades (maybe form Highland, I can't recall) and some day I'll actually build the darn saw...

[David Kirtley]

I have one of both the sizes. The smaller one is nice and the Japanese blade does cut well although I have a love hate relationship with that style blade. They are sharp and cut well but they do eventually start snagging the teeth and getting bent. The western blades could probably use a bit of touch up from the initial sharpening they come with. The scroll blade is a bit wide for anything but pretty gradual curves.

I didn't like the wire tensioner and converted them to string. They do take a bit of getting used to and need some serious tension to keep them from flexing too much. Overall, I think they are a good buy but it does take a different mind set.

[harry strasil]

I use bow and frame saws quite a bit, never even gave a thought to buying one. My user made ones are so much better than anything I can possibly purchase, not counting the pleasure of using a tool you have actually made yourself just like the oldtimers did. Purchase a web (blade), yeah, the rest is simple.

[Tim Tyler]

I bought the Highland bow saw with the western teeth saw blades. The handles tend to twist during the cut and just will not stay where you put them. The blades are tensioned with a twisted wire and screw assembly. The stretcher I got had a slight bow in it and is held on the handles with a metal shim in a slot. I was NOT impressed. I later purchased the ECE bowsaw from Traditional Woodworker. Yes, it is more expensive, but the quality difference is far superior. The handles are rock solid right where you put them, no twisting during cut. The ECE stretcher is arrow straight. Tension is applied with a metal rod with a screw on the end. I bought a set of blades for for both the bowsaws and they appear to be identical. Whm Putch - germany. I would not spend the money on the Highland saw again. I think I'll have the ECE for life. Hope this helps...

Tim

[john brenton]

Tim: Totally helpful. Exactly what I was looking for. Appreciate it!

[Michael Hammers]

Does Dave from Chester ToolWorks still make his bowsaws?
They are very nice looking...

[Sandy Stanford]

I bought the Highland bow saw with the western teeth saw blades. The handles tend to twist during the cut and just will not stay where you put them. The blades are tensioned with a twisted wire and screw assembly. The stretcher I got had a slight bow in it and is held on the handles with a metal shim in a slot. I was NOT impressed. I later purchased the ECE bowsaw from Traditional Woodworker. Yes, it is more expensive, but the quality difference is far superior. The handles are rock solid right where you put them, no twisting during cut. The ECE stretcher is arrow straight. Tension is applied with a metal rod with a screw on the end. I bought a set of blades for for both the bowsaws and they appear to be identical. Whm Putch - germany. I would not spend the money on the Highland saw again. I think I'll have the ECE for life. Hope this helps...

Tim

I agree. I'm amazed HH still sells the Putsch saw. It's junk.

The difference between it and the ECE is daylight to dark. The ECE is much better and will hold steady without showering down on the tensioning nut.

[David Weaver]

There is commentary elsewhere on the web that the ECE distributor stocks 700mm putsch blades for their bowsaws. Is that true? If it is, what's your experience with them in terms of resharpenability and hardness. I have gotten a couple of gents saws from germany that are totally unhardened - a file sinks in half the height of the teeth on each stroke. I'd like to build a frame saw like Harry's shown himself using, but I haven't got a lot of interest in dealing with steel that's barely hardened. Absolutely zero interest in getting a $60 disposable turbo cut blade, either.

Are the putsch blades OK?

[Jerome Hanby]

Are the putsch blades OK?

I can't recall the source, but I read some bad things about the current offerings from Putsch. The Putsch was the blade specified in the bow saw project I was looking at, but the bad info I saw online pushed me to one of those $60 turbo cut blades. Since I've had the blade and the hickory stock to build the saw for over two years now, I'm thinking the blade might last forever :D

[David Weaver]

Might be a good excuse to sacrifice an old rip panel saw.

[Eric Brown]

CME handworks makes several bowsaws at very reasonable prices.
Check out item 280503463968 on the "Bay" and then look at his other offerings. He even makes a treadle lathe.

Eric

[Peter Cobb]

They are rather poorly built (bought 2 of them because shipping to S America makes them even more expensive!)

The Metal shims descried work as a floating tenon in kerfs in the frame and stretcher (in lieu of a mortise). They are NOT centred on the frame, and not in line with each other so they twist the frames :eek: even with a straight stretcher (they seem to be serial cut a certain distance from one side, so they are out of line when the handles face each other as they must).The handles also spin easily in their sockets. It makes them hard to work with.

This happened with both the frames, I plan to correct these details (the duties and taxes are worth more than the frames + blades :()

Another detail is the scroll blade is too long for the frame advertised (simply a matter of cutting it down and drilling a new hole in the blade) at least it's not too short :rolleyes:.

I chose these because Highland will ship over here... not impressed with the product (the ECE planes I got off them and customer service are great though).

Cheers,
Peter

[David Weaver]

I just ordered the ECE saw with whatever the standard rip blade is.

I already rip my wood at bench height unless it's really narrow, anyway, just standing next to the bench facing the side of the sawplate with the mark hanging over the edge of the bench. Then, no matter how much ripping you do, you can keep going, and you're not sore the next day.

If the putsch blade is crappy because it's not sharpened that well from the factory, that won't be much of a problem to fix. If it's crappy because it's soft, then that sucks and that's life.

I can't justify spending a full shop day making a tidy frame saw (including the time that it would take to find a suitable sawplate for cheap, and massacre it and clean up the teeth) if it's going to only cost $65 + shipping for a commercially made one.

[john brenton]

I think this is one of those tools that you feel like you're a cheat if you buy (like a workbench), but really it makes so much more sense. Not only do you have to sacrifice a saw plate, but you have to build the frame, handles, blade holders, get everything right on the money etc etc.



I can't justify spending a full shop day making a tidy frame saw (including the time that it would take to find a suitable sawplate for cheap, and massacre it and clean up the teeth) if it's going to only cost $65 + shipping for a commercially made one.

[David Weaver]

I think this is one of those tools that you feel like you're a cheat if you buy (like a workbench), but really it makes so much more sense. Not only do you have to sacrifice a saw plate, but you have to build the frame, handles, blade holders, get everything right on the money etc etc.

Lots easier to make a second one if you have the first one in-hand to copy, too.

Making tools from scant pictures isn't always easy. it's nice to have a pattern or object.

I don't have any rip saws I want to sacrifice, and finding one cheap could take a while. Not to mention the wife seems happy if I build furniture. She's not happy when I spend time building tools, which is probably half my time in the shop.

[john brenton]

I have a very pretty pattern from an old turning saw that I picked up in a lot. One of the arms was broken and it's missing a handle so I never used it, but the pattern is precisely what I like in a bow saw. I wonder if there's a way to get that pattern online here?


Lots easier to make a second one if you have the first one in-hand to copy, too.

Making tools from scant pictures isn't always easy. it's nice to have a pattern or object.

I don't have any rip saws I want to sacrifice, and finding one cheap could take a while. Not to mention the wife seems happy if I build furniture. She's not happy when I spend time building tools, which is probably half my time in the shop.

[john brenton]

You've got to love working wood in Chile. I'm not sure if it's the same over there as in other latin American countries, but my wife's father was a carpenter in the andes and the wood selection is amazing. The price, or course, is all relative to what you make, but I imagine you've got enough to buy whatever you might like.



They are rather poorly built (bought 2 of them because shipping to S America makes them even more expensive!)

The Metal shims descried work as a floating tenon in kerfs in the frame and stretcher (in lieu of a mortise). They are NOT centred on the frame, and not in line with each other so they twist the frames :eek: even with a straight stretcher (they seem to be serial cut a certain distance from one side, so they are out of line when the handles face each other as they must).The handles also spin easily in their sockets. It makes them hard to work with.

This happened with both the frames, I plan to correct these details (the duties and taxes are worth more than the frames + blades :()

Another detail is the scroll blade is too long for the frame advertised (simply a matter of cutting it down and drilling a new hole in the blade) at least it's not too short :rolleyes:.

I chose these because Highland will ship over here... not impressed with the product (the ECE planes I got off them and customer service are great though).

Cheers,
Peter

[David Weaver]

The ECE saw is quite a nice saw for $65, even with the putsch blade.

It isn't ideal to start (the teeth), but the machine cut teeth are pretty good for machine cut teeth, and unlike most of the saws I've seen from europe lately, the blade has a decent polish. It will be one easy pass of a file to have very sharp teeth with good geometry.

I'll be able to tell how hard it is when I file it - hopefully at least acceptably hard.

After a couple of cuts, I can already rip SYP junkwood with it faster than I can rip with a similar tooth count panel saw. Not quite as neatly yet, but I like it.

(in case anyone's wondering where it's $65, it's that at The Best Things - seems to be quite a bit more at some other places).

[Aaron Rappaport]

A couple of months ago, Peter Cobb wrote that he was planning on correcting the problems with his Putsch saws - their off-center blades and the tendency of their handles to slip and so twist the blade during the cut. Because I also have a putsch, I'd love to know how to fix the handle-slipping problem!

I bought mine 20 years ago but only recently reduced the set on the teeth enough that it can be used for furniture-making. I got the off-center blade problem fixed by using washers to shim the blade over. But I also have the handle slipping problem and don't know how to fix that.

[Peter Cobb]

I blushingly admit I took the cheapskate way... O-Rings ;)
Went to the plumbing section of the local Borg and eyeballed the size that would go over the handle, loosen the tensioning mechanism, and Bob's your uncle.

Not elegant but provides enough friction to hold them in place.

Cheers,
Peter

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

Would those ECE frame saws work to resaw thicker stock? I'm not looking to cut 1/16" veneer or anything, just would like to split 4/4 stock into thinner pieces (most of this would be no more than 4" or so wide).

[David Weaver]

No - you want something with the blade in the middle of the saw to do that, like a veneer saw. If you try to fight a bowsaw to do that job, it will wear you out trying to keep it on the line unless the piece being cut is very small.

See jr's thread here for a picture.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?35432-reply-to-David-Torrison-inquiry-on-Bow-Saws.

I like the bowsaw I bought OK, but it does not eliminate the issue on a long rip that one of your arms is doing more work than the other. I have just been using a regular panel saw instead, with hold downs on a saw bench so that I can put both hands on the carpenter's saw to do a long rip without getting pooped.

If you want to resaw 4" stock that would be too large to fit in the frame saw itself, I'd plow a narrow groove in the pieces you want to cut on both sides and use a coarse carpenter's rip saw to complete the cut. On 4" stock, it wouldn't be quick like a bandsaw, but it shouldn't take forever, either.

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

I see. If I was to go and build a frame for the frame saw, would the ECE blade work? What about the PUTSCH saw blade from Highland? Or should I just continue using my table saw and live with the waste?

[David Weaver]

If you use a handsaw, I think you're going to have as much waste as the tablesaw.

If you want less waste, I don't know if you'll get it without a bandsaw.

[Jim Paulson]

I agree with Jr it is way more cool to make your saw and even the blade/web sometimes. That said the blades at Highland are fine too.

Take care,
Jim