Lining a cherry chest with cedar

[Barron Shaw]

I need some advice.

I have a friend who asked me to build a toybox. The toybox is a frame & panel design using solid cherry and cherry ply. Part way through, she decided that it would be nice to line it with cedar so that it could be used as a cedar chest after the kids grow up.

I bought some T&G 1/4" aromatic cedar. I'm thinking it would look a lot nicer if I ripped off the T&G, jointed it, and then glued it up inside the chest.

Since most of the large surfaces are plywood, I shouldn't need to worry about wood movement, right? Any good reason (besides effort) to stay with the tongue & groove?

[Bob Turkovich]

Barron,

I'm curious to see what advice you get....

21 months ago, I planned on making a cherry/cedar blanket chest. It was not going to be a frame-and-panel design like yours.

I procured 1/2" cherry plywood and 1/4" cedar plywood from my local plywood source. I used a 3M contact cement - recommended by my plywood supplier - to make a cherry/cedar sandwich. I cut the panels to rough size in the process. Unfortunately, due to circumstances, I had to store the sandwiched panels on edge for 48 hours. When I got back to them there was significant warpage (over 1" over a 36" panel). I went back to the plywood source for advice....they told me never glue two different materials together of two different thicknesses (Duh - they knew exactly what I was doing when I bought the plywood and cement).

After 6 months of strategically placed dowels and weights, I got the panels back to near-flat. They've stayed that way for the last 15 months (stored properly) and I've been wondering if, when I build the box, they will warp again.

When I saw your post, my first thoughts were don't make a panel out of the cedar and then glue it to the cherry, especially if the cherry is greater than 1/4" thick :o but I'll defer to other forum members who are a lot more experienced at this than I am.

[Kent A Bathurst]

In a blanket chest I made, I used the T&G aromatic cedar, but only on the bottom - IMO, that's enough of the cedar to do the job. SWMBO agrees.

So, I just assembled the T&G on top of the plywood floor, let it float, and put a few screws in strategic places to hold it in place, and let it expand/contract That way, it can be removed down the road, and sanded down to refreshen, and re-install. Or, replaced.

I'd be concerned that the properties of cherry v. cedar are too dissimilar, and that the ply has zero movement while the cedar moves. If you are certain you need to line the walls, then I'd consider installing as T&G, with small screws or brads at the center of both ends of each cedar board. Or come up with something cool like a rabbeted closure rail [terminology?] on the top + bottom of each side, with the cedar riding inside the rabbets. Either way, each T&G joint will expand + contract independant from the cherry and/or ply.

[eugene thomas]

i made chest out of oak plywood in highschool and used cedar that cut off the toung and grove and glued up. only problem had with it is i made a box to fit on the pivot support for the lid and was made from oak the first time. the finish would get sticky so had to make new box out of cedar.

[Chip Lindley]

Cedar's moth-proofing properties are more "wishful thinking" than reality. The tight construction of the cedar chest keeps moths from gettin in! But, the fragrance of cedar lends charm and nostalga to a nicely-built toy chest.

I would suggest saving yourself time and trouble, and lining only the the lid of the toy chest with cedar panelling. Then you can justify time spent cutting off the t&g to glue up solid panels. The inside of the lid is the first thing seen when the chest is opened! (lots of ooh's and aah's!) Your friend gets the fragrance of cedar with much less work on your part.

Should you feel compelled to panel the complete interior with thin cedar t&g, allow it to expand and contract a bit by perhaps using a bead of clear silicone caulk in the center and edges of the panels. Secure with only a few brads to hold the panels flat while the silicone sets. Cover the inside corners with small mouldings to hide irregular edges.
~Chip~

[Randy Henry]

I have made over 20 of these, with the raised panels on 3 sides, a ply back, and a solid wood lid. All I ever use is 5/8" pin nails to secure the cedar to the inside on all 4 sides. I never pin into the panels, always the rails/stiles. The thickness when done is a full inch, but the top edge looks nice with the cedar, and whatever wood you are using. I use white melamine on the bottom for a bright look.

[Barron Shaw]

Randy, sounds like practical experience - and exactly the design I'm using. Do you use T&G cedar or try to make a solid panel? Also, I was a little worried that the full 1" lid might be too heavy for a kid - I haven't started the lid but based on density calculations I think it will be almost 20lb if lined with cedar.

I'm not too concerned about the amount of time & effort. I enjoy this stuff and am not really trying to make money.

[Barron Shaw]

I guess there is some truth to Chip's comments about wishful thinking. But I've never had moth holes from clothes stored in a cedar chest -- and plenty of holes in woolens that weren't. I think the trick is to make sure they are pretty clean before they are stored (so that big larvae aren't already there), and build it tight.
Here's Wood Magazine's take: http://woodmagazine.coverleaf.com/woodmagazine/200911?pg=18#pg18

[Randy Henry]

Barron,
I use whatever cedar I have on hand, but if I don't have any, then I have to bite the bullet and get it from the borg, at $30 a box, it takes a box plus another half to line a chest. When I plane my own, I just plane them to just a 32nd over 1/4, run them through the drum sander, edge them, cut to width and install without the tongue and groove. I then touch up the interior with a r/o sander w/150 to knock down any edges. I prefer this method over the t/g as the cedar is harvested off my farm, and most of the chests I make are for friends, family, and I enjoy the processing of the cedar. Do I agree that the entire chest doesn't need cedar on the inside? Probably. But when I give one of these to someone, I know they will have it for life and everyone really loves the rustic cedar interior with the raised panels.

[michael craigdallie]

on an unrelated note, isn't aromatic cedar quite soft? how would it last after years of use and abuse inside a toy box? i have never used it so i can't say just wanted to throw this out for the opinions of others with more experience with it.

michael