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Mitchell Andrus
09-24-2010, 9:26 AM
GE closed the last incandescent light bulb plant in U.S. Once the stock is exhausted, it will be impossible to buy U.S. made incandescent light bulbs. We can however still import them, for a while anyway. Soon, even the imports will be unavailable.

Last one out, turn out the lights.

I'm buying a few cases. I've got dimmers all over the place.
.

Dan Hintz
09-24-2010, 9:47 AM
A number of fluorescent bulbs (and most of the recent LED versions) will work with dimmers. Some of the LED bulbs on the market (though still difficult to find at the local BORG) are high quality with a great light output, and this will only get better in the next few years. By the time the bulbs are no longer available and stock runs out, LEDs will be where we need them to be.

Even today, an LED bulb will set you back about $25-30... considering they have 30+ times the life of a fluorescent, they are at least on par with quality fluorescents in terms of cost. To replace a 60W bulb, look for an LED bulb (from a reputable manufacturer) that specifies an output in the 800-900 lumen range. If I find some time later this afternoon, I'll try and post some links where you can purchase them. Remember, the price will be much higher per bulb than most are used to, but these are near-lifetime purchases.

David Weaver
09-24-2010, 9:54 AM
GE closed the last incandescent light bulb plant in U.S. Once the stock is exhausted, it will be impossible to buy U.S. made incandescent light bulbs. We can however still import them, for a while anyway. Soon, even the imports will be unavailable.

Last one out, turn out the lights.

I'm buying a few cases. I've got dimmers all over the place.
.


I've got tons of them, too. I have no dimmers. I'm dim on my own.

If anyone wants to practice some fit of government defiance, come over to my house. I have a few that came in fixtures and machines that are full size and say nothing but CHINA on them, and that produce a crappy amount of light for the amount of electricity they consume.

We can turn them all on, maybe smoke some cigars and drink some bootleg whiskey. Once I get you all drunk, we'll build a small shed without obtaining a building permit and put oil lights in it that run by burning melted styrofoam.

And maybe build an outhose close to the neighbor's property (or on it) and poison some suburban squirrels (which I would LOVE to do) that reside near my bird feeder, as shots in the back with a wrist rocket don't seem to deter them for long (actually, they're starting to watch for the shots, and if they're close, they duck and dodge them).

:D

Mitchell Andrus
09-24-2010, 11:17 AM
.... with a wrist rocket

Slingshot
.

Charles Wiggins
09-24-2010, 11:38 AM
I keep thinking about situations where you might WANT the inefficiency of an incandescent bulb to create a little heat, like a coffee can dryer for dowels. I had a friend who used a light bulb for heat inside his well pump cover so the pump wouldn't freeze up in the winter.

Dan Blackshear
09-24-2010, 12:12 PM
I keep thinking about situations where you might WANT the inefficiency of an incandescent bulb to create a little heat, like a coffee can dryer for dowels. I had a friend who used a light bulb for heat inside his well pump cover so the pump wouldn't freeze up in the winter.

Amen, we use a 100w bulb in the chicken coop to keep the water from freezing (put it under a coffee can and put the waterer on top of the can). Don't have to worry about burning down the coop. Guess I better stock up :mad:

Mike Cutler
09-24-2010, 12:20 PM
If someone can point me to CFL's that turn on instantly at -10 degrees, I'd appreciate it. Until then, it's an incandescent for the stairs to the back door.
I have them just about everywhere else in the house though.;)

They don't work in the shop too well under 20 degrees either. Yep I do work in the shop/garage at those temps.

Pat Germain
09-24-2010, 12:29 PM
What about track lights? Aren't those incandenscent?

Ken Fitzgerald
09-24-2010, 12:36 PM
The CFLs I have purchased don't work well at 70 F. You turn them on and wait for minutes.

We have a light at the bottom of our stairway. I used a CFL in there once. Same problem. CFLs there will get somebody killed coming down the stairs.

They don't work well at all outside on my carport.

I don't mind using something that is more efficient but let's don't overstate their capabilities.

Matt Meiser
09-24-2010, 12:56 PM
They closed one in Cleveland over 20 years ago. A family friend worked there until it closed and he's retiring after 20 years at his second career at the end of the year.

The new CFL's are much, much faster at room temp than the ones from a couple years ago. The floodlights we have in some track lights are older and pretty slow, except for one replacement that is faster. I had some outside in an automatic post light that went bad after about 2 years of Michigan weather which I didn't think was bad considering incandescents were only lasting 6mo or so. My guess is heat is a killer there since the top is completely enclosed. I replaced them with the same. They warm slooooowwww but since it turns on before it is completely dark its completely not a problem. The ones we have in some lights by the back doors are also very slow but we live with it.

I even went to a flourescent "yard light" on my shop. I calculated the energy savings to be something like $60/year based on an average of 10 hours/day of darkness over the old sodium vapor light. However the first fixture went bad after about 2 years, probably something in the non-replaceable ballast. We'll see what happens with this one. If that's the life expectancy, I'll go to a big CFL in a standard fixture.

One big problem is that they don't seem to make a dimmable, candelabra base, decorative bulb yet. But that's exactly what you need for almost all new ceiling fans if you use a remote.

Chris Padilla
09-24-2010, 1:00 PM
Is there a version of the T8 in a CFL configuration? Those are nearly instant on and are supposed to do well in low temperatures.

Dan Hintz
09-24-2010, 1:05 PM
Chris,

First hit on Google...
http://www.elightbulbs.com/library/light_bulbs_fluorescent_t8_lighting.cfm

Joe Pelonio
09-24-2010, 2:50 PM
My problem is the 3-way bulbs for my wife's reading lamy next to the sofa. They make a CFL but it won't fit in the space allowed in that loop
of metal that the shade attaches to. Maybe I'll get a case of the GE incandescents. I find the imports last just a few weeks.:mad:

David Weaver
09-24-2010, 3:02 PM
Sounds like a woodworker's invitation to do some metalwork with the frame of that lamp.....a coat hanger and a mapp torch :D

Bryan Morgan
09-24-2010, 3:09 PM
I bought a bunch of them when I heard they were going to be "banned" and the local Walmarts and Targets were getting rid of them for almost nothing. I always buy up as much as I can of anything that is on the upcoming "ban" list. ;) Ever cracked open a small fluorescent bulb? The manufacturing of all those electronic components can't be good for the environment. Don't they also have mercury in the actual bulb part? I harvest the parts and use them in guitar circuits. :)

David Weaver
09-24-2010, 4:04 PM
I bought a bunch of them when I heard they were going to be "banned" and the local Walmarts and Targets were getting rid of them for almost nothing. I always buy up as much as I can of anything that is on the upcoming "ban" list. ;) Ever cracked open a small fluorescent bulb? The manufacturing of all those electronic components can't be good for the environment. Don't they also have mercury in the actual bulb part? I harvest the parts and use them in guitar circuits. :)

They have mercury in them, but not tons. They are something you don't want to have your face in when they break, but you can clean them up when they do and not assume everyone is going to be brain dead in fifteen minutes (which some people will try to convince you. I've cleaned up several, so if they make you really stupid...I was already there, because nothing changed).

Roger Myers
09-24-2010, 4:19 PM
While it is true that incandescent light bulbs are being legislated out of production over time (not all at once), it is not true that the last incandecent plant in the US has been closed. Sylvania still produces incandescent lamps at their manufacturing plant in St Marys, Pennsylvania, and the glass bulbs are produced in nearby Wellsboro, Pennsylvania...with some other components in the lamp coming from other US and NAFTA locations.
Also, there will continue to be special purpose incandescent bulbs produced.
Sylvania also produces flourescent lamps and glass in Versailles, Kentucky...Halogen lamps in Winchester, Kentucky, ...automotive lamps in Hillsboro, NH...and high intensity discharge lamps in Manchester, NH...with other US, Canadian, and Mexican plants, in addition to plants all over the world.

Disclaimer... I have worked for Sylvania for over 25 years.

Roger

Joe Leigh
09-24-2010, 5:05 PM
I've got tons of them, too. I have no dimmers. I'm dim on my own.

If anyone wants to practice some fit of government defiance, come over to my house. I have a few that came in fixtures and machines that are full size and say nothing but CHINA on them, and that produce a crappy amount of light for the amount of electricity they consume.

We can turn them all on, maybe smoke some cigars and drink some bootleg whiskey. Once I get you all drunk, we'll build a small shed without obtaining a building permit and put oil lights in it that run by burning melted styrofoam.

And maybe build an outhose close to the neighbor's property (or on it) and poison some suburban squirrels (which I would LOVE to do) that reside near my bird feeder, as shots in the back with a wrist rocket don't seem to deter them for long (actually, they're starting to watch for the shots, and if they're close, they duck and dodge them).

:D

Toss in shooting feral cats with an air rifle and you can count me in!!

Matt Meiser
09-24-2010, 5:09 PM
Probably a lot like the Kindle vs. book argument. Incandescent bulbs don't last as long so there's waste throughout the lifecycle. They've probably got some trace amount of heavy metals in them. Then there's the energy they use, most of which is fossil-fuel generated here. And of course there are traces of mercury in those emissions. I've never seen a comparison, but I'd bet the CFLs, while clearly not perfect, are better overall.

Dan Hintz
09-24-2010, 5:28 PM
Toss in shooting feral cats with an air rifle and you can count me in!!
Took you long enough to get that one in, Joe ;)

Mitchell Andrus
09-24-2010, 5:53 PM
While it is true that incandescent light bulbs are being legislated out of production over time (not all at once), it is not true that the last incandecent plant in the US has been closed. Sylvania still produces incandescent lamps at their manufacturing plant in St Marys,


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/07/AR2010090706933.html

I read more into the headline than was warranted. GE has closed, blah, blah....

Although.... The article also goes on to say:

"The last major U.S. factory making ordinary incandescent light bulbs will soon be closing. When it does, the remaining 200 workers at the Winchester, Va., plant, about 70 miles west of Washington, D.C., will lose their jobs, marking a small, sad exit for a product that began with Thomas Alva Edison's innovations in the 1870s."



So...if you think Sylvania is a major producer that ISN'T closing perhaps a quick call to the Washington Post is in order.
.

Roger Myers
09-24-2010, 6:15 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/07/AR2010090706933.html

I read more into the headline than was warranted. GE has closed, blah, blah....

Although.... The article also goes on to say:

"The last major U.S. factory making ordinary incandescent light bulbs will soon be closing. When it does, the remaining 200 workers at the Winchester, Va., plant, about 70 miles west of Washington, D.C., will lose their jobs, marking a small, sad exit for a product that began with Thomas Alva Edison's innovations in the 1870s."



So...if you think Sylvania is a major producer that ISN'T closing perhaps a quick call to the Washington Post is in order.
.

Mitch... I'm a VP with Sylvania and do know for a fact that St Marys will continue to produce.... but this isn't the first time the press gets some facts wrong, or incomplete... I'll drop a note to our PR folks, but this stuff is seldom worth the effort to get into discussions with them on...
Thanks for the link though!
Roger

Pat Germain
09-24-2010, 6:36 PM
Probably a lot like the Kindle vs. book argument. Incandescent bulbs don't last as long so there's waste throughout the lifecycle. They've probably got some trace amount of heavy metals in them. Then there's the energy they use, most of which is fossil-fuel generated here. And of course there are traces of mercury in those emissions. I've never seen a comparison, but I'd bet the CFLs, while clearly not perfect, are better overall.

I think you're right about that, Matt.

Dan Mages
09-24-2010, 10:20 PM
Has anyone seen a CFL that replaces appliance bulbs? I haven't... I also haven't seen alternatives for night light bulbs that are worth their weight. Incandescent bulbs still have a purpose that Congress cannot legislate out of existence.

I have been using CFLs around the house and have an LED candle bulb in my girl's room. It works really well and only consumes 5 watts... If they come down in price and improved quality, I might get more.

Dan

rick carpenter
09-24-2010, 11:10 PM
You'll have to start evaluating locations to determine if they are incandescent-worthy. (Seinfeld fans will get this.)

Matt Meiser
09-24-2010, 11:11 PM
I just remembered that I also have a CFL bulb in my old gas pump which is on a photocell. Its just a couple watts and has been in there a good 4 years or so, outside. Its "TCP" branded which is a line our local Do-It-Best hardware store carries that has a lot of obscure CFLs.

Mitchell Andrus
09-24-2010, 11:38 PM
You'll have to start evaluating locations to determine if they are incandescent-worthy. (Seinfeld fans will get this.)

Yea, good one.
.

Curt Harms
09-25-2010, 7:52 AM
Sounds like a woodworker's invitation to do some metalwork with the frame of that lamp.....a coat hanger and a mapp torch :D

Welder, actually :). We have one swing arm lamp that uses a unique harp arrangement--it has a short curved perpendicular T bar that clips into the lamp base. SWMBO wanted to use a 3 way CFL in it so I bought the 'fattest' harp I could find, cut the end off the original harp and welded that end to the new harp. It looks a little strange, (not TOO bad) but that's what lamp shades are for :D.

Jason Roehl
09-25-2010, 8:34 AM
You'll have to start evaluating locations to determine if they are incandescent-worthy. (Seinfeld fans will get this.)

I laughed heartily from my diaphragm when I read this... :D

Jeffrey Makiel
09-26-2010, 10:34 AM
[URL]The article also goes on to say:

"The last major U.S. factory making ordinary incandescent light bulbs will soon be closing. When it does, the remaining 200 workers at the Winchester, Va., plant, about 70 miles west of Washington, D.C., will lose their jobs, marking a small, sad exit for a product that began with Thomas Alva Edison's innovations in the 1870s."

When will the light bulb over America's head go on with the thought that this might be a bad thing?

-Jeff :)

Rod Sheridan
09-26-2010, 12:26 PM
When will the light bulb over America's head go on with the thought that this might be a bad thing?

-Jeff :)

Jeff, unfortunately I don't think it will.

Americans and Canadians seem for the most part, to be unwilling to pay for made in North America products.

I continue to try to buy North American products, however often they don't exist any longer.

We've voted with our wallets and told the suppliers we want cheap, at any cost.

Regards, Rod.

Bruce Page
09-26-2010, 12:49 PM
Rodger, I’ve been using the 40W, T12 Sylvania Sunstick (32 of them) in my shop for several years now. Best darn florescent out there IMHO.

GE just closed its jet engine component plant here in ABQ. It provided good paying jobs to the community for 42 years.

Justin M Rovang
09-26-2010, 2:10 PM
What a racket this has turned into...

Sure there's dirt-cheap entry-level CFL's... but...

You want a '40w' color balance? If you want instant-on? and no dimmer problems? - you pay the premium, for sure.

I have a rack of a closet full of my incandescent desires. I'm good to go until the CFLs that fit that criteria quit knee-jerking the consumers. (Better be within 4 years =[ )

Neal Clayton
09-26-2010, 5:58 PM
there will be no flourescent bulbs in my house, period. light without shadows isn't light. halogens i can deal with, guess i'll switch to those.

Bryan Morgan
09-26-2010, 10:44 PM
Jeff, unfortunately I don't think it will.

Americans and Canadians seem for the most part, to be unwilling to pay for made in North America products.

I continue to try to buy North American products, however often they don't exist any longer.

We've voted with our wallets and told the suppliers we want cheap, at any cost.

Regards, Rod.


We DO want American products. We just don't want them to be poorly made while fat cat investors and CEOs rake in millions while their quality fails and they screw over their most valuable asset: their employees. ;)

Rod Sheridan
09-27-2010, 4:14 PM
We DO want American products. We just don't want them to be poorly made while fat cat investors and CEOs rake in millions while their quality fails and they screw over their most valuable asset: their employees. ;)

Bryan, this brings back my point, would you pay a premium for an American product or would you buy the identical imported product for less?

For example, if Powermatic made a tablesaw in the USA, that's the same model, grade and quality as the import, but 50% higher in cost, which would you buy?

To me, that's the crux of the matter.

To comply with environmental, labour and social program requirements, NA or EU made equipment will always cost more for the same object.

Are you willing to pay more to have a local machine?

Regards, Rod.

P.S. I am willing and have paid for that choice, however that's a personal decision on my part, regarding what I believe is important, other people will have other beliefs, and practices.

As much as I hate generalisations, I think most people are only price motivated.

Bryan Morgan
09-27-2010, 11:45 PM
Bryan, this brings back my point, would you pay a premium for an American product or would you buy the identical imported product for less?

For example, if Powermatic made a tablesaw in the USA, that's the same model, grade and quality as the import, but 50% higher in cost, which would you buy?

The import, no question.


To comply with environmental, labour and social program requirements, NA or EU made equipment will always cost more for the same object.

Exactly, but people don't want to hear that or simply deny it... ;)


As much as I hate generalisations, I think most people are only price motivated.

I'll pay a little more for a better quality machine, within reason. I'll even shop at a place priced a little higher if their customer service is exceptional. I won't pay more simply for regulations and other nonsense which shouldn't be there in the first place. :)

Ken Fitzgerald
09-27-2010, 11:50 PM
Folks,

I will warn everyone that political comments...incuding international politics are not allowed at this site.

Please refrain from same.

Peter Kelly
07-30-2012, 9:51 PM
Old thread but Osram Sylvania and Aero Tech both still make traditional A-19 incandescent as well as florescent and halogen bulbs in the US. LEDnovation also makes top of the line LED light bulbs in the states as well.

ray hampton
07-30-2012, 10:50 PM
most car light bulbs are incandescent[at least the older cars are]whom will replace all of the sockets so that the new bulbs will fit

Matt Meiser
07-30-2012, 10:58 PM
Our new car has LED lighting on the back. Not sure what the front turn signals, etc. are. And actually I had LED lighting on the rear of a 96 Thunderbird I had.

Seeing what they are doing with modern LEDs (thinking about the Festool Syslite, LED flashlights, and some of the new undercabinet lighting) I'm excited about the future of LED lighting. We converted our post lamp in our front yard over to LEDs. I started using CFLs which cut the energy usage by a huge margin after the first couple sets of incandescents burned out in a relatively short time. The CFLs lasted much longer. But not forever and when they went I replaced them with LEDs and cut energy usage by another huge margin.

Rick Potter
07-30-2012, 11:01 PM
I keep reading where CFL's don't give off so much heat. Well, I have no empirical data but I do have a reading lamp a couple feet from my head when I sit down. It has a 13W CFL in it, which supposedly gives off little heat. Maybe, but the built in ballast sure does. When reading, my head starts to sweat from the heat. (Could be friction from the undergreased brain bushings)

We went to CFL's all over the house years ago, and are generally happy with them, although some have not lasted very long at all. In all, we have over a hundered CFL's in the house. It sure adds up when you count ceiling fans, can lights in the kitchen etc.

When COSTCO had them on sale (10 for $2.99, 13W) I loaded up. Got enough for 10 years.

Rick Potter

Brian Elfert
07-30-2012, 11:03 PM
I too have LED lighting on the back of my new Dodge Grand Caravan. I also converted my motorhome to all LED lighting except the headlights. Unfortunately, most LEDs tend to be made overseas. I'm not sure if the American made LED bulbs use American made LEDs or not.

I just bought some LED bulbs for fixtures in my motorhome. $1.35 each on Ebay including shipping from China! Menards sells them also, but they want $12 each and they are almost certainly made in China too. I bought just one to test and it came from China in about a week. I can't believe they can manufacture and ship something around the world for $1.35.

Greg Peterson
07-30-2012, 11:47 PM
Saw-Stop.

Three

Two

One....

ray hampton
07-31-2012, 12:10 AM
. I bought just one to test and it came from China in about a week. I can't believe they can manufacture and ship something around the world for $1.35.[/QUOTE]

If they are shipping ten thousand units to the same city, they could afford to ship at this price

Brian Elfert
07-31-2012, 7:52 AM
. I bought just one to test and it came from China in about a week. I can't believe they can manufacture and ship something around the world for $1.35.

If they are shipping ten thousand units to the same city, they could afford to ship at this price[/QUOTE]

They shipped me ONE bulb for $1.35 including shipping. They used the Chinese post office. I wish somebody made these in the USA, but nobody does.

Ole Anderson
07-31-2012, 9:53 AM
I have a Black & Decker LED spotlight that works better than those monster 2 million candlepower ones at 1/4 the weight and size and it seems to last forever before needing a recharge.

Also I replaced fourteen 300 watt light bulbs at church with 300 watt CFL's from the BORG. Payback looks like just under 3 years. Saves 3000 watts of energy when in use, which is pretty substantial. Color and perceived output matched the old lights perfectly. They seem to come up to full output in under 5 seconds.

Tim Rinehart
07-31-2012, 3:39 PM
My only major regret when incandescent bulbs become hard to find, is that it's the 'heat' for my dishwasher body wood kiln.
Overall...it's a big energy saver, so hard to argue with that and the fact that they cause heat where not needed (at least here in the south!).
I will say this about LEDs, though expensive, they put out a ton of light for the wattage. I'm amazed every evening at the LED deck lights and tree floods. A total of about 20W from them all, and it's provides very nice lighting. The tree floods are only 4.5 watts each and easily light 30+ feet up in the air for the tree it's on.

Van Huskey
07-31-2012, 3:45 PM
When the full "ban" is in place the price, quality and utility of LEDs will take off. It won't be long before we won't be able to imagine going back to old bulbs.

ray hampton
07-31-2012, 7:02 PM
will the new L E D lights attract bugs and other flying things

Jeff Nicol
07-31-2012, 8:26 PM
There are some new companies that have started making a new type of incandecant bulb that fits into the parameters set forth in the new regulations coming out. I guess it is a process change and a power usage rating to comply with and they are good to go, so you will be able to buy from a "TRULY AMERICAN" company in the future.

I think I bought 30 CFL bulbs and every one of them failed before the promised warranty. What I found out is that they do not like to be put into enclosed ceiling fixtures and they get real hot and almost start on fire ! So now I am back to all incandecants and have a few cupboards full of them and buy a few when they are on sale.

LED bulbs are fine for a lot of things, but I do believe that the majority of them are made in the far east now and will always be unless the government gets out of the way of new business ventures here.


Jeff

Brian Elfert
07-31-2012, 8:39 PM
CFLs say right on the box what type of light fixtures not to use them. I had some can type fixtures on my ceiling fan that the CFL bulbs failed frequently even if the fan was not used during the entire life of the bulb. I finally got a new light fixture for the fan for about $25 and the CFLs haven't burned out yet.

The made in the USA light bulbs are taking advantage of a loophole in the law. Rough service light bulbs can still be made.

Pat Barry
07-31-2012, 8:46 PM
I've got a restoration project also Jeff. I found some great old fashioned incandescents at Restoration Hardware. They were very reasonable price wise. Of course I would have paid more for them and might have to next year.

Craig Matheny
08-01-2012, 9:25 PM
will the new L E D lights attract bugs and other flying things Don't all white lights do that?

ray hampton
08-01-2012, 11:29 PM
Don't all white lights do that?

I do not know , that is why I ask

Craig Matheny
08-01-2012, 11:36 PM
That is why they make the yellow bug lights

Kevin W Johnson
08-02-2012, 12:31 PM
Saw-Stop.

Three

Two

One....

I see no relevance to the light bulb discussion.....


Anyways, I put LED bulbs in the post light out front when I installed it. It uses 3 bulbs, and I calculated the yearly energy cost at something like $9. The bulbs themselves were $15 for the 3pack at Costco.

paul cottingham
08-02-2012, 2:35 PM
When the full "ban" is in place the price, quality and utility of LEDs will take off. It won't be long before we won't be able to imagine going back to old bulbs.
I am already there.

Curt Harms
08-02-2012, 3:13 PM
My only major regret when incandescent bulbs become hard to find, is that it's the 'heat' for my dishwasher body wood kiln.
<snip>


I think you'll be able to buy halogen bulbs for at least a while. More $ though. I wonder if someone will come out with a 100 watt heat source with an Edison base. More than a few light bulbs are used as you are using them, as a heat source.

Brian Elfert
08-02-2012, 3:13 PM
My first try with LED bulbs ended up with them going right back to the store. I bought some LED bulbs I thought would work in some can lights I have, but the light came out of the edges of the bulbs and not the center of the bulbs. It was cheaper to buy a new fixture that would work with CFLs than to buy other LED bulbs.

ray hampton
08-02-2012, 7:04 PM
I think you'll be able to buy halogen bulbs for at least a while. More $ though. I wonder if someone will come out with a 100 watt heat source with an Edison base. More than a few light bulbs are used as you are using them, as a heat source.

bulbs are use for the heat [or was ] on the farm [newly hatch chickens ] and in the hospital nursery and I almost forgot that the dope plants need the heat from a bulb

Craig Matheny
08-02-2012, 7:21 PM
Those are High Pressure sodium bulbs they are still made (so all the medical marijuana growers can stay in business)

paul cottingham
08-02-2012, 8:05 PM
The phillips bulbs that are yellow when off are fantastic. Lots of light, quite natural looking, and very little energy use. They are a little expensive, so I just wait for sales.

Andrew Pitonyak
08-06-2012, 3:42 PM
I keep thinking about situations where you might WANT the inefficiency of an incandescent bulb to create a little heat, like a coffee can dryer for dowels. I had a friend who used a light bulb for heat inside his well pump cover so the pump wouldn't freeze up in the winter.

I understand that they replaced some traffic lights with LEDs but in the winter, they were covered with snow and ice so you could not see them..... I was told that they then installed heaters....

Matt Meiser
08-06-2012, 4:08 PM
OK, but with very minor controls you could turn those heaters on when the temperature inside the housing dropped below freezing, and when the sun is beating on them even in winter, I bet that's a lot less time than even 1/3 of the year. Plus crews aren't having to change bulbs on a regular basis.

Kevin W Johnson
08-06-2012, 5:19 PM
I understand that they replaced some traffic lights with LEDs but in the winter, they were covered with snow and ice so you could not see them..... I was told that they then installed heaters....

I'd be curious to know the details of the heaters they used... with all the other stupid stuff I see locally concerning traffic lights, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the heaters stayed on constant all winter long. I certainly hope that isn't the case. There are so many ill programed traffic lights in all the cities here in the Shenandoah Valley, it isn't the least bit funny. Sensored lights that take multiple minutes to change when theres no traffic from the other direction, lights that change instantly for people coming of side streets that make a right turn and they could have simply made a right on red, etc, etc. I laugh in disgust when I hear the term "traffic engineer".

Rod Sheridan
08-06-2012, 6:27 PM
I understand that they replaced some traffic lights with LEDs but in the winter, they were covered with snow and ice so you could not see them..... I was told that they then installed heaters....

They don't have any heaters here on the LED traffic lamps...........However it may be too cold most of the winter to worry about it.

We don't heat antennas most of the time when it's snowing either, unless it's near zero and the snow is sticking.......Rod.

Jason Roehl
08-06-2012, 6:50 PM
I laugh in disgust when I hear the term "traffic engineer".

Your first clue that there's a problem is that everyone involved in traffic control (elected officials, police, engineers, construction workers, etc.) call a certain implement an "automatic traffic control device" or "automatic traffic signal". The rest of the driving public calls them, "stoplights".

Alan Bienlein
08-06-2012, 8:07 PM
Actually if I remember correctly back when I was doing electrical work for a living the light bulbs for traffic lights were rated at 130 volts were as a standard light bulb for your house is spec'd out at 120 volts. Since most houses average about 122 to 125 volts the light bulbs with the higher voltage rating will last much longer.

Brian Elfert
08-06-2012, 8:16 PM
Your first clue that there's a problem is that everyone involved in traffic control (elected officials, police, engineers, construction workers, etc.) call a certain implement an "automatic traffic control device" or "automatic traffic signal". The rest of the driving public calls them, "stoplights".

Just about every type of engineering has different names for objects. This doesn't mean engineers are bad just because they use different names for things than the public does.

I believe the main problem with traffic engineering is lack of money. Many major highway interchanges locally are diamonds due to lack of money to build a proper interchange. A road project currently under way has built some of the bridges for only two lanes even though there are future plans to go three lane. The project is under a very tight budget so I guess they decided saving a a million now is worth spending more money down the road to widen the bridges. The same project also eliminates a bunch of ramps to save money. Do you really think the traffic engineers would have eliminated those ramps if they had their way and the money to do it right?

The budget for the above mentioned project was originally $140 million and had all the bells and whistles and I think it even had new ramps that were missing when the highway was built years ago. Unfortunately, the project got pushed back until after 2030 due to lack of money. Someone decided around 2009 that the bridges in the area needed replacement and they had the money to do so. They came up with $40 million for the project. The project was totally redesigned and they cut it to the bare bones. The project will improve traffic flow, but not as nicely as the original project. Local residents are quite upset as the missing ramps mean tons more local traffic. They even widened an existing bridge over the highway to handle the extra local traffic.

Greg Peterson
08-06-2012, 10:51 PM
The project is under a very tight budget so I guess they decided saving a a million now is worth spending more money down the road to widen the bridges. The same project also eliminates a bunch of ramps to save money. Do you really think the traffic engineers would have eliminated those ramps if they had their way and the money to do it right?

Pennywise, pound foolish. Selling infrastructure is either very easy or virtually impossible. Just depends on who the winners and losers are.

Kevin W Johnson
08-07-2012, 3:11 AM
Just about every type of engineering has different names for objects. This doesn't mean engineers are bad just because they use different names for things than the public does.

I don't believe that was what he was saying at all.


I believe the main problem with traffic engineering is lack of money.

I disagree. There are far too many examples of ill designed roadways and intersections that would have cost no more to have configured them correctly. And when it comes to stoplights being programed correctly, there is no additional cost. We as a nation simply need more people in those postions to give a damn about proper traffic control. I can't imagine that they don't drive the very roads in which they are responsible for the signals, and that they can't figure out that sitting 3 minutes for signal change for a sensored light that has no other oncoming traffic is a problem. Likewise, having one car roll up from a side street causing a light to change instantly, only to make a right turn that could have been made on a red light. A simple 30 second delay in triggering that light would move traffic way more efficiently.

Around here, one locality has even started programing lights to make the left turn a delayed green (letting straight traffic go first, then giving the left arrow) rather than an advanced green, but only for one direction. The traffic going left the other way get an advanced green. So you have traffic going south that gets an advanced green for left turns and the south bound straight thru traffic gets to go, then the left turn turns red, then the north bound straight traffic gets to go. Then the south bound turns red, and the north bound left turn traffic finally gets the green. It's absolutely the dumbest traffic light programming I've seen.

Phil Thien
08-07-2012, 9:13 AM
I disagree. There are far too many examples of ill designed roadways and intersections that would have cost no more to have configured them correctly. And when it comes to stoplights being programed correctly, there is no additional cost. We as a nation simply need more people in those postions to give a damn about proper traffic control. I can't imagine that they don't drive the very roads in which they are responsible for the signals, and that they can't figure out that sitting 3 minutes for signal change for a sensored light that has no other oncoming traffic is a problem. Likewise, having one car roll up from a side street causing a light to change instantly, only to make a right turn that could have been made on a red light. A simple 30 second delay in triggering that light would move traffic way more efficiently.

Around here, one locality has even started programing lights to make the left turn a delayed green (letting straight traffic go first, then giving the left arrow) rather than an advanced green, but only for one direction. The traffic going left the other way get an advanced green. So you have traffic going south that gets an advanced green for left turns and the south bound straight thru traffic gets to go, then the left turn turns red, then the north bound straight traffic gets to go. Then the south bound turns red, and the north bound left turn traffic finally gets the green. It's absolutely the dumbest traffic light programming I've seen.

Agree 100%.

It seems amazing to me that with all the other advances in technology, we can't get the lights working better.

How much gas are we burning, as a nation, sitting at stop lights? Even small improvements in traffic control would yield huge savings in energy.

And they just installed a new stoplight near my home so trucks could make it onto a larger street more safely. But it seems to trigger if a squirrel wants to cross the street. I'm stopping there all the time, with no cross traffic in sight.

I really do think it is a "we don't give a carp" attitude, under cover of "you don't understand traffic control, this is how it should work."

Nonsense.

Kevin W Johnson
08-07-2012, 11:53 AM
Agree 100%.

How much gas are we burning, as a nation, sitting at stop lights? Even small improvements in traffic control would yield huge savings in energy.



Excellent point that I forgot in my post. I've said that very thing many, many times. I feel sure the gallons burned at lights when there is no oncoming traffic is astronomical.

Brian Elfert
08-07-2012, 2:22 PM
There are still a lot of traffic lights that don't even have loop detectors. Many of the signals in Downtown Minneapolis, Minnesota are still mechanically timed. You can hear the noises from the cabinet on the street corner. Most of them haven't been re-timed in years because it costs money. First they have to do a traffic study and then somebody has to analyze the traffic study to determine the proper timing. Public works is so underfunded we are lucky they haven't installed stop signs to save money on the electricity for the signals.

The city recently got a $16 million federal grant to put in a new computer system for traffic light control. Hopefully this means more loop detectors and new electronic timers for the lights.