Miter gauge advice for novice.

[Andy Maldoror]

i've just finished restoring my unisaw and got it trued up and running.
i don't have a miter gauge yet.
i was looking at the incra 1000se and the woodhaven gauges.
but then i was wondering how much i need to invest in this. an old delta gauge to match my 50's uni might be ideal.
i'm going to be building instruments and small cabinets and boxes.
i'm not going to be making segmented bowls or anything too complex.
would a shop built crosscut sled and a cheaper vintage gauge suffice? or should i go ahead and invest in a new miter gauge to hone in on different angles?

[Mark Godlesky]

You should make a sled even if you have a miter gauge.

If you one already had a vintage miter gauge I would say you could get by with it. However, since you need to buy one I would consider the Incra MITERV27. It's accurate and relatively inexpensive (<$50 at Amazon)

[Tom Hintz]

Adding a good miter gauge is probably the most common table saw accessory there is. I don't know anyone that is using the factory gauge. One of the more popular is the INCRA 1000SE that you have been looking at. In addition to the great indexing for angles it is a good, solid gauge that makes many cuts easier and safer because you can move the fence horizontally so that it is close to the blade regardless of the angle. (Of course if you forget to change the fence placement you can run it into the blade...we don't need to go into how I know this...)

I did a review on the 1000SE that I have been using for years at the link below if more info on that one would help.

INCRA 1000SE Review (http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/incra1000servu.html)

[Gary Muto]

Be prepared, there is a lot to choose from and as many opinions:

I have an Incra 1000SE and really like it. I've seen the Incra V120 on sale for about the same price as the V27 although I think neither one comes with any fence. That's no big deal since you easily attach your own. A 1000SE with a telescoping fence, tape measure, dual flip stop with 1/32 increments and micro adjust is a nice package. I've seen it as low as $100 but I think I paid around $125. Amazon and Rockler usually have the best deals.

[Dave Gaul]

I have the Incra 1000SE as well. I used my stock miter gauge (Ridgid R4511) for a while, thinking an aftermarket one was a waste of money. Then, I saw amazon had the SE ~$100, so I purchased pretty much on impulse... one of the BEST purchases I've made in tools!! It is one amazing tool. You will not be unhappy with the Incra 1000SE!!

I do agree with Mark, you will still eventually want a sled. I need to make one myself, mostly so far to takle crosscutting wide stock or panels > 12".

[Prashun Patel]

I'm a happy Incra1000SE user too. But in the interest of full disclosure, there are 2 camps on this gauge. Some people have beefs with a few of the features. They've been discussed at length on other threads here.

If you decide to go with Incra, I'd urge you to get a package with a fence too - not just the gauge. Making a fence is doable, but ones like the Incra are very accurate, easy to adjust, have flipstops, and slots to attach aux jigs to them.

Even the simplest of projects start with accurate and repeatable measurements. A good miter gauge is a necessity (FOR ME!!!)

[Mark Woodmark]

I have had the Incra 1000se and currently have the Incra 3000se. Both are extremely accurate and being able to set both up for angle cuts is very easy. Before I purchased my sliding tablesaw, I also had the Incra Miter Express. It acts like a miter sled. Setting up a stock miter gauge for angle cuts is a pain and resetting it back to 90 degrees is also a pain. Also the slop between the miter slot in the saw and the gauges bar has caused me problems. The Incras solved this problem also. Get a good miter gauge, you wont be sorry you spent the extra money

[Bill Huber]

I had an old, I do mean old Craftsman table saw, it was over 50 years old.

the best thing I did for that saw was to get a good miter gauge. Now that I upgraded the saw I still have that miter gauge.

As has been stated there are more then one out there and everyone has there likes and dislikes, and that is good or we would never see any new products out there.

I have the Osborn3 EB-3 and really love it, it does its job and does it very well. I also have an Incra V-27. the Incra gets used on the router table, sander and the band saw, the EB-3 is used on the table saw only.

I would say look at the EB-3 and see what you thing, if you do a search here you will find a lot of info on all of them.

http://www.osbornemfg.com/close-up.htm

I also agree, one of the first things you want to make is a good sled, I have one that I use all the time, I don't know if I could use my table saw now without a sled.

[Rod Sheridan]

Andy, as others have said, a good mitre gauge is a great investment for a tablesaw, along with a home made sled.

I had a JessEm mitre gauge on my cabinet saw and was very pleased with it. The new owner of the saw is as well.

A good mitre gauge will have an adjustable width bar that slides in the mitre groove on the saw, so that play can be adjusted out.

It will also have a long fence, prefferably with a flip stop for cutting multiple pieces to the same length.

It will have an accurate angle measuring scale and/or fixed stops for common cuts.

It's money well spent, and can be used on your next saw if you upgrade.

Regards, Rod.

[glenn bradley]

I have 2 Incra V-27 gauges. 1 for the tablesaw and 1 for the router table. The miter slots were different enough that I got a gauge for each to be able to tune them for no slop at their given machine. I guess after using one for several years and buying the second when the need came up says they are inexpensive, reliable and meet my needs. As mentioned, a miter gauge is not a replacement for a sled (or 3).

[Dave Rathert]

I don’t have any miter gauge advice but I’ll 2nd the “build a sled too” recommendation. I have an old bench mount TS on a shop made stand. It was a Hand-me-down and has the little 5/8” miter slots so I’m gonna have to live without a real miter gauge till I upgrade. I hated that saw and only used it for ripping. Everything else was done with my CS or MS. Well, when my son came along 6 months ago things had to change as my Miter saw bench is in the basement directly under my sons crib (that daddy made BTW :D). Now I needed a way to do crosscuts and miters on the TS out in the garage, especially during nap time. I made a scaled down version (to fit my saw) of the Super Sled from Eagle Lake. Now I actually enjoy using that old hand-me-down TS. I know I still need an upgrade big-time but I don’t know how I ever lived without the Super Sled. Google Super Sled Eagle Lake and watch the step-by-step vids.

-D

[Joe Leigh]

Hard to beat the accuracy/repeatability and quality of the Incra 1000SE, though if you look hard enough you'll find some detractors here.
Some tools just have the look and feel of a high quality instrument, and this one does for me.
To each his own...

[Rick Pettit]

You know guys I always see Norm use the factory mitre gauge when I watch New Yankee Workshop. I have a unisaw from the seventies and was looking at aftermarket gauges too. Then I thought if it is good enough for Norm why not me. I added a straight piece of 6/4 quartersawn white oak to the factory gauge and started using it. The more I did the better I got with it. I still think that I might buy an aftermarket sometime but as of right now I think I will spend the money on other tools that I want.

[Jim Rimmer]

(Of course if you forget to change the fence placement you can run it into the blade...we don't need to go into how I know this...)

I did a review on the 1000SE that I have been using for years at the link below if more info on that one would help.

INCRA 1000SE Review (http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/incra1000servu.html)
I have one and love it but also caution you about readjusting the fence after a miter cut. Several of us have slightly shorter fences now.

[Neil Brooks]

Love my 1000SE.

If memory serves, most Osborne owners love theirs, too.

To Jim Rimmer: um ... I though ... we weren't going to talk about that :o

[Mine's not GONE, exactly, but ... it does have a nice, clean slice in it ! :eek:]

[Bob Wingard]

You know guys I always see Norm use the factory mitre gauge when I watch New Yankee Workshop. I have a unisaw from the seventies and was looking at aftermarket gauges too. Then I thought if it is good enough for Norm why not me. I added a straight piece of 6/4 quartersawn white oak to the factory gauge and started using it. The more I did the better I got with it. I still think that I might buy an aftermarket sometime but as of right now I think I will spend the money on other tools that I want.

I remember ole' Norm using an Osborne when he wanted more accuracy.

[Trent Shirley]

I like Dave also was using my Ridgid R4511 mitre gauge and it just drove me nuts as there was too much slop in the channels and the gauge would not stay accurate and needed constant re-adjusting.
If your mitre gauge stays accurate and money is tight then just stick with it until you can upgrade. But you would be happy with the 1000SE which is what I upgraded to.
Beyond having the fence and the flipstops you have very easy angle settings, it stays where you put it and you can adjust the mitre bar so it takes out the slop in the track and you get consistent results every time.

I would say a good mitre gauge is an eventual upgrade for most everyone whichever you purchase.

[Kevin Womer]

I have the 1000SE and cannot think of anything negative about it. It is reliable, solid and when you need an accurate cut it is always on. It is expensive, and the v27 is another option, but like everything else we all end up sorry we didn't save up and get the best we could afford later on. A shop built sled is a jig that is relatively cheap to make and can also be very accurate depending on how well it is buit. I don't have the Osbourne, but it looks to be pretty good as well and can honestly say with either you would be very happy. Best wishes with your decision.
Regards,
Kevin

[Lee Schierer]

If you are only going to make 90 degree cuts then any miter gauge or cross cut sled will work once you get it set exactly to 90.

However, if you are ever going to cut any angle other than 90, and that day will come, you need an accurate miter gauge. Personally I chose the Kreg miter gauge as it has preset shot pin holes and a tight fitting pin for the most common angles. It has been an excellent upgrade from my factory miter gauge.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/be/bef91de2-28b3-451d-99ad-1c6f2ba6550b_300.jpg

[glenn bradley]

Several of us have slightly shorter fences now.


To Jim Rimmer: um ... I though ... we weren't going to talk about that :o

We weren't ! Now I have to confess that you don't even have to have a 1000SE to join the shorter fence club. I added an Incra fence to my V-27. . . and then subtracted from it:D.

[Don Dorn]

I agree that all the quality gauges will give you great service. I've used an Osborne EB-3 long enough that it was $159 when I bought it. I have no plans to upgrade and have made multi-part miters that fit perfectly well. Amazed at how much I find it convenient to extend the arms which can will go o 42".

[paul dyar]

I have had the Osborne 6 or 7 years. IMO there is no way you can modify the factory mitre gauge to compare with one of the after market ones.
Paul

[Van Huskey]

I have several Incra miter gauges for different machines. My advise get an Incra, go as far up the price range as you feel comfortable. IMHO the 1000SE is the price point where going higher really gets into diminishing returns unless you need to cut some really goofy angles on a regular basis.

[Richard Gonzalez]

You have been getting two kinds of advice - get a miter gauge and make a sled. I chose the option to buy a sled that also handles most miter gauge functions - I bought a Dubby. I get very accurate 90 degree cuts and accurate cuts at any desired angle. I also have the Delta version of the Osoborne EB-3. I have not used it since getting the Dubby.

I have seen the Rockler version and I think the Dubby is better.

[jeff knudson]

I have the incra v27, the cheapest one they make and it has great build quality and feel. Eventually you'll want to build a miter sled and crosscut sled and you'll use that for almost any crosscut anyways, so i wouldn't spend much on a fancy miter gauge.

[scott spencer]

There's a fan for every miter gauge out there. I've owned the Incra V27, Osborne EB-3, and the Woodhaven Deluxe....all 3 are nice gauges, and I liked different things about each of them. The Woodhaven is built like a tank but is the most cumbersome to change angles with. The V27 is a great bang for the buck, and is accurate, easy to use, and pivots to 60°, but needs a fence of some sort. The EB-3 is a great gauge all the way around....great fence, accurate, well built, easy enough to use.

[Andy Maldoror]

wow...thanks for all the advice... i went ahead and got the 1000se.

my next dilemma is a fence.

by the way, when i say i'm a novice...i mean i haven't used machines. i've been neanderthal up until now, but over the last couple years i've restored a few old machines and have just got them all up and running and i'm going through the process of truing everything up and getting whatever accessories i need.

in my very small shop, i've set up my old unisaw with a peachtree cast iron router extension and the prl-v2 router lift with the 7518. my unisaw came with a used and abused biesemeyer fence.

i'm more of an OWWM-type and like keeping things simple. but watching the incra joinery system demo video complicated things. i thought it would be great for the smaller work i'll be doing and i liked that the fence didn't reach over the outfeed side like the biesy so i could roll my saw up against the wall when i wasn't using it without pulling off the fence. and it seems like the best set up for saws with router extensions. it's really the router setup that excites me much moreso than the tablesaw fence.

but i've been waffling on the idea for weeks...i've also read a lot of bad reviews and the flimsiness of long aluminum extrusions turns me off...especially sitting on top of all that pretty iron. i'm doing everything i can to not get this thing and fixing up the old bies. what are some other options for router fences for tablesaw mounted routers? anything out there nearly as precise and repeatable? i'm assuming it's not really possible to mount just the incra router fence to the tablesaw without the rails.

[glenn bradley]

wow...thanks for all the advice... i went ahead and got the 1000se.

my next dilemma is a fence.


my unisaw came with a used and abused biesemeyer fence.


It would take some serious effort (and possibly a motor vehicle) to do enough damage to a Bies to where a little TLC wouldn't make it serviceable. The pads are about all there is to wear out and they can be replaced or substituted with laminate. The faces are sometimes reaplced by folks right out of the gate because they prefer a different material so that's doable. I'd give it a good looking over with an eye toward fixing before I spent a few hundred dollars on something. Just food for thought.

[Dave Cav]

I'm with Glenn on the Bies fence. You really can't do much better for a table saw fence. Clean it up and use it.

As for trying to use the same fence for the TS and the router, it's a good way to drive yourself crazy. You're really using it for two different things, especially if you're going to be doing fussy stuff like dovetails and box joints. You really need a separate fence and that's where the Incra stuff really shines. I wouldn't use an Incra fence for my only table saw fence, though; too much to mess around with.

[Andy Maldoror]

so what fence works on the table saw router extension?
maybe an incra without the carriage?
just a lot of set up work moving between the table saw and router i'm guessing.

[Gordon Eyre]

I have the Woodhaven gauge and like it. Very accurate and well made.

[keith micinski]

so what fence works on the table saw router extension?
maybe an incra without the carriage?
just a lot of set up work moving between the table saw and router i'm guessing.

Andy this is what I did with my extension table and Incra. It only takes me a minute to bolt the fence down to the table when I want to use the router.I drilled 4 holes in the extension and then used t-nuts in the table but if you have a cast iron wing extension you could just drill and tap the holes.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=146997

[Terry Beadle]

I have a Kreg mitre gauge that I bought at the woodworking show here in Atlanta several years ago. It's dead accurate and very reasonably priced. They have some models that are now cheaper than what I paid for mine now too.

Recommended.

[glenn bradley]

so what fence works on the table saw router extension?
maybe an incra without the carriage?
just a lot of set up work moving between the table saw and router i'm guessing.


I use a RT fence that uses t-bolts that drop into slots cut into the table. A more refined version of this is flush-mounted t-track but I have used the slots for years without issue.

As for setup, if you are making a cut on the tablesaw, then changing over to the router table, then back, then forth; re-think your work flow ;). I do have times when I am making things up as I go along that require me to go back and forth.

Usually by that time I am done with the large TS cuts and can leave both setup, or not. Putting the router fence on and taking it off should be very quick. If not, rethink your fence choices. JMHO. YMMV :).