Has the shine come off the user tools a little?

[David Weaver]

You might read this title thinking i'm wondering if you're using your tools and smudging them.

Actually, I'm wondering if anyone has noticed that the price of most user old tools is dropping. There are still some nosebleed sellers on ebay (a group of folks which appears to be growing), but the completed auctions for goods has fallen off the table for everything that isn't super mainline (i.e., an NOS plane that's 100 years old still brings money, as does a super-fine looking type 11 stanley or whatever).

I have had a lot of luck getting buck incannel gouges the last two weeks, the luck that I haven't had until very recently. I got five of them in pristine shape for less than $20 each.

I also bought an ohio too metal corrugated jointer to replace the LN 8 that I just traded off...for $26. It had a replacement tote, but that was its only issue - one that I can correct with about $4 worth of macassar ebony. I have to think the seller was probably disappointed as I can tell he cleaned the plane and ground the iron. I only need a good flat jointer with a straight cut iron about once a month, so it wasn't necessary to keep an LN 8. it doesn't matter so much if an ohio jointer gets a little rust from lack of use.

I did see several "less desirable" types of stanleys that were otherwise good jointers, with good pictures of all of the parts of the planes disassembled, and even they only brought about $35 - no rust, no spent irons, just good users.

I also got a slightly rough but OK stanley 46 with no irons for $44. I can easily make the irons - anyone here could.

Has anyone else noticed the price of decent user tools dropping fairly significantly?

[Sam Takeuchi]

I was looking around for a No. 3 in the last couple of days, I was pleasantly surprised with the completed sales price of the past weeks. They have gone down a lot.

I don't know if it's a seasonal thing or something is affecting vintage tool market (WoodRiver chipping away vintage market? I don't know)? It's good for me anyway. I hope good vintage tools keep coming out though.

[George Sanders]

I think the prices are reflecting the current economic situation.

[David Weaver]

I think the prices are reflecting the current economic situation.

As do I. I would have thought they'd reflect it a long time ago, though. If the current drop isn't just an anomaly, I was surprised how well they held up for as long as they did.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Foreclosures are the highest since for as far as the eye can see. Baby boomers are dying and their effects are being sold. Twenty-five percent effective unemployment, personal bankruptcies, and / or scarce cash generally means people are selling grandpa's rusty combo plane rather than fixing it up like they've been saying they'll do for the past twenty years. All of these things disgorge a fresh supply of tools into the market.

Although the media doesn't seem to report it, and certain regional differences mask it, in many respects we appear to be going through a second great depression. Second hand durables like these are a canary in a coal mine. Another good indicator would be freight shipping going into the Christmas season. I have noticed prices going down though too--and all of these indicators spell D-E-F-L-A-T-I-O-N. Not for nothing but it'd be wise to batten down the hatches for another leg down, in my view.

Some of the things you list can be had for relatively little. A 46 without the irons can be pretty cheap. Patternmaker's gouges are more common than people realize because it was an important and widespread trade; now most people think incannel gouges are useless (they're not). And No. 3's and No. 4's are common as dirt. The No. 8 size jointer--well, let's face it, most people don't know how to use one, they're intimidated by them, they're expensive to ship, a lot of things can be wrong with them. If you're dealing with someone who doesn't know what they have, you can be getting a good deal or you can be buying a jointer with a cast iron bed that's cracked right through the middle. You got lucky this time! (I have too.)

That's my view, FWIW.

[David Weaver]

Patternmaker's gouges are more common than people realize because it was an important and widespread trade;

I agree, they're common. it's just not been as easy to shake them loose for cheap until lately. Especially tools that have no rust whatsoever, little wear, and that are still sharp with a good shallow primary bevel and no crack. There is a guy near my parents' house who always has stuff reasonable. From time to time, you can find patternmaker's tools on his sale bench at a flea market for $5 each, but if he doesn't have anything, I've often not found much else cheap. He doesn't sell over the internet, he's old school.

There are nosebleed sellers who have always had them for $75-$100 each. They still have the same ones listed :p

I saw a very nice buck firmer gouge sell last week for $11. The shipping was $4. I didn't see that last year. It's a duplicate of something I already have, or I'd have been the buyer.

I wish there was a way to permanently block certain sellers from all results on ebay! I have to set up custom searches to do it - it just makes way too many items to wade through if you don't.

Maybe if this goes on long enough, it'll start to steer the prices at tool swaps a little bit. I know for as many patternmaker's tools (which are nice for toolmaking) as there are out there, it's just a matter of getting them out. Next wish is for cheap full sets.

As far as the jointer goes, if it's cracked, all you have to do is contest it, so there's really no risk other than shipping. Shipping was $8 UPS- I know the seller ate it on the shipping, because I've shipped plenty of jointers, and it's never been that cheap for me at business rate.

I hope you're right about every tom-dick-and-harry pulling grandpa's tools out and loafing them onto the internet.

I agree 4s have always been cheap. I've never paid more than $15 for a non-bedrock 4 or 5, and every one has been a good user. The cheapest I ever paid for a decent clean jointer until now (one with pictures good enough to see around the mouth and with a good view of the frog and all of the criticals), though, was about $45.

[george wilson]

Exactly what width of in cannel pattern maker's gouges do you now have,David?

[David Weaver]

George, a couple of different sweeps in some and not in others, as follows:

1/4th through an inch by eighths, and some between the eighths, except for some odd reason - I don't have any half inch. Some are cranked, and some straight, but for what I'm doing with them, I can get by with many of the ones I already have.

I really only need a couple of different widths in what I've seen labeled as "medium" sweep by tool sellers, and I have them already.

Getting more is a matter of liking them, and not need, I will readily admit. If I find a matching set reasonable (as i did for cranked neck medium sweep gouges) at some point of any of the sweeps, I will probably replace the mish-mash sets.

Did the makers really refer to them by "medium" and such terms for the sweep?

[george wilson]

I'm not really a student of pattern maker's gouges,though I have a number of them. Some I have are definitely not as deep a sweep as others. They must be the "mediums".

You could straighten out the bent neck ones if you wanted to. Take them out of the handles,heat the tangs up red hot,and straighten them. They were made that way to begin with,weren't they? I've definitely seen some that were owner converted to bent neck types. I think I have a few owner conversions.

[Mike Brady]

Hi Dave. I have been waiting for someone to broach this subject on a forum. As a frequent plane seller, I was hesitant to bring it up myself for fear that readers might view this type of post as self-serving.
Starting around the first of this year, I noticed that the good sellers of quality old tools on the internet (not eBayers or big-time professional dealers) were seeing their listings sit for days instead of hours before being sold. Along with that, sellers have often come back with offers of free shipping or simply cut their prices. Common Stanley planes have dropped in price $10-15. I bought a Bedrock 605 in very good condition recently (similar to the one you got from me) from a dealer for $40 and an almost NOS #3 Sweetheart for $20.
Personally I have had no problem with selling top quality tools, but I am at the point that I don't want to put the time and money into vintage tools to re-sell and net so little from the effort. This is the bad news for all of us. Although you are initially happy to find bargain tools, in the long run the "pickers" will lose interest and you will have to go out and do the grunt work of going to auctions yourself, or take the chance of buying from a fuzzy photograph on eBay and adding the shipping costs to your investment.
There is a guy who currently is selling surface ground Stanleys for about the price of what a decent, common user Stanley was selling for a couple of years ago. I also have see used Lie-Nielsen sit unsold at 20% off of list. Unheard of even a year ago.
I'm attending WIA next week. It will be interesting to see how the new tool makers are doing. My guess is that most of the smaller ones are still working against a backlog of orders, but the bigger makers have got be effected by the overall slowdown in consumer spending.

[Steve Branam]

I noticed at Brimfield in the spring that sellers were pretty quick to say they were willing to work with you on prices (for many items, not just tools). Then last week at Nashua, sellers were quickly quoting price drops or immediately saying they were flexible, without having to ask. So they were very clearly motivated sellers. The drops weren't huge, but certainly enough to catch your interest. I'm sure it's a tough way to make a living in the best of times, but this does seem to be a buyer's market right now.

[Gary Hodgin]

Definitely prices for a lot of what I've seen have fallen over the past 3-4 years.

As usual it's a demand--supply thing. Demand has fallen of for a couple of reasons, unemployment and fear of job loss has reduced demand for "luxuries" like hobby tools. You see the same thing in used boats and antiques, at least in my part of the country (middle TN). On the supply side, many buyers became collectors and then sellers when market prices were rising (similar to house flippers and baseball card collectors). Buyers are simply more conservative with respect to what they'll pay because they aren't sure they can get their money back if they decide to sell. At current prices, there are simply more people wanting to sell than there are people wanting to buy -- price falls. A really unusually good tool might fetch a price close to what it would have brought a few years back, but that market is limited today, or so it seems.

[James Taglienti]

I sell tools on the auction site frequently and I have noticed a drop in the more common, average quality bench planes. I think it's a combination of things; the market being flooded, demand being lower due to less "play money," and perhaps most of the users out there have already got most of what they need. Even the Bed Rocks are down. However, I have seen more 603 through 605's online in the last 4 months than the last 2 years combined.

I just had a decent week, however, with high quality # 95 and a 140 that both brought well over $100. EDIT just checked on the 140 which brought $91 which I don't think is that great. >> My 289 went for $230 or around there, which I thought was good also. A near mint, unused #40 scrub brought $77- that is abysmal. If you are considering buying or selling, check the completed listings and see how many have sold, and for what. if the marked is flooded, it might be a good time to buy. If you want to sell your 608C and one hasn't sold for a couple weeks, then list it.

I haven't noticed a huge downturn in the higher end collectible tools, perhaps a 15-20% decline over a year, on the things that I keep track of personally. I can't speak for the gunmetal Miller's patents and Chelor cornice planes. I don't watch them. Some users are down by as much as 40% from a year ago.

I recently watched a 60 1/2 la block go off for over $70. It was nothing special. So the anomalies continue.

The big buyers at the auctions I go to aren't disillusioned. They know prices are down, and their bids reflect that. So do mine...

So if you're in the market for a #7, you better grab one up. If you're looking for a Norris G5 mint in the box or whatever, you probably won'' find an outstanding bargain.

[Gary Hodgin]

So if you're in the market for a #7, you better grab one up. If you're looking for a Norris G5 mint in the box or whatever, you probably won'' find an outstanding bargain.

This would be a great market for someone starting out and wanting to buy good used hand or power tools. Unfortunately, I have about all I have room for. I talked to a guy a couple of weeks ago (sold him a brace and a few bits and a #4 SW). I normally am not selling, but I responded to his CL ad on wanting to purchase older hand tools. I sold them for quite a bit less than I paid a few years ago, but didn't need them. I also told him to check the forum's classifieds for some good deals. I don't think he knows enough about the tools to be selective on ebay. Over the past few months, I've seen well-tuned planes and saws for sell at prices at about what you'd paid for the rough stuff a few years ago.

[Andrae Covington]

Has anyone else noticed the price of decent user tools dropping fairly significantly?

I have been seeing this for almost a year now, actually, but more in the past six months or so.


There are still some nosebleed sellers on ebay...
I wish there was a way to permanently block certain sellers from all results on ebay! I have to set up custom searches to do it - it just makes way too many items to wade through if you don't.

Yes that would be nice. I have several custom searches set up as well. I don't mind so much the nosebleed sellers, because usually they are buy-it-now auctions and I sort by ending time, so those listings tend to collect on the last page(s). What bugs me the most are two types: 1) the sellers who have obviously disassembled what must have been a perfectly functional tool and have listed every single dinky little part as a separate auction; and 2) the ones that sell brand new, utterly cheap junk but list in the collectible tools area. Ugh, stop cluttering my search results.:mad:


Starting around the first of this year, I noticed that the good sellers of quality old tools on the internet (not eBayers or big-time professional dealers) were seeing their listings sit for days instead of hours before being sold. ... Personally I have had no problem with selling top quality tools, but I am at the point that I don't want to put the time and money into vintage tools to re-sell and net so little from the effort.

A couple times in recent months I have won tool auctions and actually felt bad about how little I paid, knowing that by the time the seller pays ebay fees and paypal fees, plus whatever they paid for the tool originally, they probably made no profit or even took a loss.:( Obviously I want to pay as little as possible... but if sellers can't make a little money doing this, they are going to give up and stop listing. I have put in the starting bid on tools, expecting other bidders to come along and bump it up... but it is increasingly common that no one else bids. Because of this, I have seen more and more listings start somewhere higher than $0.99, even though historically the way to get higher final bids has been to start very low.


I haven't noticed a huge downturn in the higher end collectible tools, perhaps a 15-20% decline over a year, on the things that I keep track of personally. ... I recently watched a 60 1/2 la block go off for over $70. It was nothing special. So the anomalies continue.

Although the "user" tools seem most affected, I have even seen a downshift in the "collector" tools as well. Occasionally I will watch an item I would never bid on, like a Stanley #2, just to see what it goes for. They still sell, no doubt -and for far more money than I would spend for an old tool- but usually for less money than they used to.

Even so, as James noted, sometimes there is still a bidding frenzy and the listing sells for more than usual. There has been a general shift in supply vs demand towards fewer buyers, but you never know in a given week if there might be five buyers who really really want a certain old tool and they want it now, and there only happens to be one or two listed. This often happens after Chris Schwarz casually mentions that tool in a blog post...:rolleyes::D

[Dan Andrews]

I watch hand drills on ebay primarily. The very popular #2 would go for at least $30. in good complete user condition last fall. More for early models. I just bought an older model #2 in good user condition and complete with even the side handle (frequently missing) for $5. + $10. shipping. Other model drills I bought over the past year have dropped in selling price by about 25%.

I had purchased a few drills that were rough in appearance. I refinished them with the intent to resell. I may try to sell one on ebay as we get closer to Christmas to see how it goes.