A Quick Introduction and Request

[Randy Vinson]

Hello,
My name is Randy Vinson and I've been lurking here absorbing all I can read for a while now. (I must admit that reading this forum has been an eye-opener. I'm lucky to have found it.)

I'm gradually approaching retirement and I'm looking for a hobby. I've been a computer geek for the last 30+ years (mostly software) and laser engravers have a lot of appeal to me. (Computers, steppers/servos, motion control, precision optics, burning lasers, what's not to like? :))

I don't yet own a machine, but I've got a line on a local used ULS-25E. I realize it's an old machine, but I'm going to use it primarily for hobby purposes, so I don't need the production speed of a more modern machine. (Must... resist... Chip's Trotec Speedy II 300. :))

However, over the years, I have found that I lack the artistic flair so many of you seem to have. (I'm envious at times.) I'm more of a technician. I realize the world needs both types (and more), so I've gotten over that.

I'd like to ask your general opinion of the ULS-25E. I know it's old, but would you folks still consider it useful? It's available locally for about $2K. Does that seem a fair price for a machine that age? I'm going to take a look at it tomorrow morning and get a demo to asses its overall condition. The seller says the machine is functional and it's putting out 26 watts. It has received normal maintenance (belts, bearings, and optics as needed.) The tube was replaced 9 years ago and the CPU board was replaced 3 years ago. They bought a new machine when the CPU board was replaced and kept this machine as a backup. The new machine has been very reliable and they've decided to sell the backup machine due to lack of use.

Does this machine have any known things to watch for? Would my money be better spent towards a more modern used machine? While I can afford to pay more for a more modern and powerful machine, I've read here that it's sometimes best to go slow at the beginning and not jump in with both feet. My current fear is of starting too slow and wasting money on something obsolete and with limited utility.

Thank you for your time and considered opinions. I may be joining your ranks shortly.

Randy V.

(This ended up being much longer than I had expected. So much for "a quick introduction".)

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi Randy, welcome to the forum. It's always easy to spend someone else's money, so here's my take-

Too much for that machine. Nothing they did has anything to do with the life of that laser tube. They could have cleaned it daily, but when that tube fails, it fails and there's no way to predict when that will be.

If you need to need tube, which you will at some point, you're looking at some money. Probably more than you paid for the machine. So if you're comfortable knowing if you buy it, they tube could fail next week, and you'd have to cough up $2,000 to get it replaced or it would become a paperweight.

That's something to consider. Also, it's not much you're going to do with 25W. Not sure what you plan to use it for. 25W might be enough, might not.

[Robert Walters]

Hi Randy and welcome!

There are others that I'm sure can better answer your question regarding that particular laser engraver you are inquiring about.

When buying a new/used laser, be sure to check out what accessories it includes. For example, mine did NOT come with Air Assist. Which is a $1200 option + the cost of the clean regulated air source. Another item is a "cutting table", and of course the exhaust system (commonly used is woodworking dust collectors and associated duct work).

You'll need to vent outdoors or have an air scrubber (which uses some filters and activated carbon). I'm in the middle of building one myself at the moment.

You might also call the mfg and ask how much a replacement/refurb laser tube/module would be (just in case it's at it's life end). NEVER GUESS at what the cost of a replacement part or accessory might be, you'll be in for a shock if you do. Call the mfg and find the actual price(s).


Also, ask yourself this...
What am I going to do with a laser?
Is this going to be cool for 90 days than lose it's luster?
Am I going to use it for more than 20 hours a week? a month? a year?
Is it truly a hobby and can justify a $5000 investment just to "play around"?
Can you make enough money selling items to pay for your hobby?


As far as artistic talent goes...
I got an 'F' in drawing stickman, but there is always CTRL+Z (undo) :D

[Mike Null]

Randy

welcome to SMC. I take a different view than Steve as I started my business with a 25 watt ULS and used it for years. I know of others who use low wattage machines with great success. (Rodney Gold being one)

I would recommend that you get the serial number and call ULS tech support to inquire about availability of tubes and other parts. If they still support that machine then you might negotiate a little but if it's in good condition it would make a good buy.

[Chip Peterson]

(Must... resist... Chip's Trotec Speedy II 300. :))



don't be silly! :)

Welcome to the board. There are a bunch of great folks here to help you get started.

[Kay Bengtson]

I just bought one a few months ago and while I knew it was at the end of it's life the price was low and I needed to move on it. It was a risk and so far I am very pleased with the results. The unit is built very well and there are replacement parts available but you have to ask around. ULS does sell parts but not the laser itself. There are replacement laser tubes available for it and you can get the laser tube recharged if necessary. I replaced the optics in mine because I wanted it in top shape. In the end, I have a laser that has already half paid for itself.

However, the really important thing is what I learned about laser cutting and that is worth a lot more. When I buy another I now know how to buy one without the hype that some sales people give. I looked for about seven years at laser cutters and had various demonstrations etc but always wondered if I was getting the straight scoop. I wasn't.

Would I do it again? Yes.

Kay

[Dee Gallo]

I bought an old Epilog off eBay (yeah, I know, right?!!) for a couple thousand and knew NOTHING about it except it "worked". Now, it worked out well for me, the thing went on for several more years before I sold it to someone else for their first one for the same amount I paid. It was 15 years old at that point.

BUT: I did still have a day job, I did not have to depend on it for my food, I did have a specific use for it within my existing business and it did pay for itself in 4 months. The model I bought happened to have a built in exhaust system, which I never thought about before I bought it. I got lucky. I never had to replace the bulb.

When I decided to get a newer model, I knew more, had more money and found a great dealer.

So you could get lucky like I did. But there are also horror stories out there. Personally, if you are simply using it for hobby purposes right now and the seller shows you it works, I would not be so scared to try it. When (if) the bulb goes, you can decide if you want to spend $2000 to replace the bulb or spring for a different one. At that point, you'll know if the size, wattage and features are what you need and want.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth, dee

[Randy Vinson]

Thanks to everyone for your answers.

For the moment, my problem is solved. The seller had committed to a previous buyer, but the buyer had failed to show up on two different occasions. The seller was fed-up and said I could have it - if the original buyer didn't show up before tomorrow. (You know where this is going, don't you? Wait for it...)

I just got an e-mail from the seller. The original buyer finally showed up and bought it. (sigh)

Oh, well. I'm not giving up. I just need to be patient and keep my eyes open. In the meantime, I'll keep reading the forum.

Randy V.

[Frank Corker]

Thanks to everyone for your answers.

For the moment, my problem is solved. The seller had committed to a previous buyer, but the buyer had failed to show up on two different occasions. The seller was fed-up and said I could have it ......


Randy trust me when I say I believe you have had a lucky escape. I had almost identical situation when I first started looking for my laser. The guy has had it, then he allegedly pulled out and I was offered it, then told it had gone and then offered it again. This went on two or three times as I scratched around and got the money together. Then they mentioned putting the payment into an Escrow account which is when all the bells started ringing. I was right, he was a scammer and I was not the only one taken by an offer too good to be true.

If it is a scam, you might not have been the only person to have taken the bait, it might be that the one who has taken it has paid them in cash.

Take my word for it, go to a reputable dealer or buy from someone who is prepared to let you view the machine working and accepting payment on collection in person.

[Robert Walters]

Frank,

Randy mentioned it was a LOCAL sale, not anything about online.

You're right there though, NEVER buy a laser without seeing, touching, using it, even from a reputable dealer. You need to ask questions to make sure it fits your needs, kick the tires, etc.

If the word escrow ever comes up, just run away as fast as you can!

Though, i have had the occasional "buyer" that has the best of intentions, doesn't show for the first appointment, misses the second, then finally shows on the third. This is rare though, most are flakes that act like that and just waste your time.

[John Noell]

....NEVER buy a laser without seeing, touching, using it, even from a reputable dealer. You need to ask questions to make sure it fits your needs, kick the tires, etc.I respectfully disagree. I bought mine sight unseen because I am in Fiji and the expense of going to look was too high. So I looked for (and found) a VERY reputable dealer in 2nd hand lasers, Bill Neal of Justlasers dot com. I found him to be completely honest. (My bank accidentally paid him twice and he returned the 2nd payment quickly.) I would not hesitate to buy another laser from him based on his word.

[Kay Bengtson]

I bought mine because I could go see it and I did pay for it on the spot and take it with me. I got to see how it worked and got some feeling for the veracity of the claims that the seller was making. I have no complaints. Before this unit became available, I was almost ready to buy one of the Chinese lasers on Ebay but since I knew so little about laser cutters, I was hesitant. I figured that a used machine even if it is 13 years old, that works and I can see and pick up is better by far. It was a risk but it worked for me. So if you can see a used one locally, it is really a big plus.


Kay

[Randy Vinson]

The machine I lost was being sold by a local trophy shop. The seller was very up front about the machine's age, support status and the buyer ahead of me. I was disappointed that I missed the sale, but from the seller's view, he had someone waving money at him and he had only my word that I wasn't a flake.

My primary interest is to tinker and learn about the laser engraving process. Since this is a hobby, I have the luxury of not needing to hit the ground running. If I make any money, it will be through casual work for friends and the occasional side job. Any large order with hard delivery commitments would feel too much like my day job to be considered a hobby. That's not to say I won't get there eventually, but initially, I want to start without a lot of pressure.

I've considered a Chinese-built machine, but should I find myself unsuited to the hobby, I think a used Epilog, ULS, Trotec (drool), or GCC machine would have a better resale value. In fact, that's one of the things that surprised me. I had expected them to follow the used computer price curve and I suffered a moderate case of sticker shock when I found how well they retained their value.

Randy V.

[Robert Walters]

I respectfully disagree. I bought mine sight unseen because I am in Fiji and the expense of going to look was too high. So I looked for (and found) a VERY reputable dealer in 2nd hand lasers, Bill Neal of Justlasers dot com. I found him to be completely honest. (My bank accidentally paid him twice and he returned the 2nd payment quickly.) I would not hesitate to buy another laser from him based on his word.


Hey John,

I think you were fortunate enough to find someone reputable.

That however does not always seem to be the case these days. I'd rather throw a word of caution to a new purchaser, and let them make an informed decision.

What it really comes down to is an under-educated dealer that doesn't know the ins and outs and gives answers on what s/he feels is correct or what would sound best in a positive light.