Electrical Boxes and Mudrings

[Chris Padilla]

Silly question perhaps but do the mudrings that attach to metal electrical boxes go on before or after the drywall?

I'm thinking they go on before but I could be wrong!

Thanks....

[Tyler Howell]

Before! Measure for a flush fit with the rock. Many boxes give you a mark to go bye.

[Rob Russell]

Yep - before 'rock. It's pretty tough to get the mudrings on once the 'rock is up.;)

Suggestion - fill the device screw holes in your boxes with caulk before the rockers get in. The caulk is soft and won't dry out, but will keep drywall compound out of the holes - makes it easier to screw in devices.

[Chris Padilla]

Cool...thanks for the tip, Rob. Thanks for the double/triple check, Guys! As you can tell, I'm getting close to calling in the 'rockers... :D

[Rob Littleton]

Dude,

I gotta say, thru my own stupidity, I learned this..........

So, I have outlets up the ying yang around my walls and I needed power before I started mudding so I connected up a couple of circuits to get by with. These circuits are GFI circuits.

I mud the walls and around the outlets (where I overcut some rock) and moved along. Well, GFI.......Mud........wet........TRIP :-(

Basically, I got mud on the outlet and this caused the trip to pop. When the mud dried (by the time I had worked out what was wrong), I could reset the circuit and continue.

Being the rocket scientist that I am (NOT) I worked out what I was doing wrong by the next wall and avoided it.

Just something to ponder on.

regards

[Tyler Howell]

I wired in a bucket load of outlets for a friend and 3 rockers refused the job because it would take too long to do the job.

[Chris Padilla]

I have *most* of the wire run--I did conduit and sometimes it is easier to pull the wire when you can SEE all the connections! :D

However, I will disconnect and pull out any outlets before the rockers come so it is easier on them. I'll have some extension cords ready to get them going.

[Chris Padilla]

Another question I discovered I need to research a bit popped up last night.

I decided to start putting the mud rings on my boxes (gee, I didn't buy enough go figure....)

All my boxes are the 4 11/16 in² by 2 1/8 in deep size.

The mud-rings I have are, of course, for 4 11/16 boxes and 5/8" extruded to match my drywall and are for 2 devices or 2 gang as shown in the pic.

What I discovered last night is that my 240 V/30 A L6-30R receptacles (see pic) appear to be designed to attach to a 1 device or 1 gang mud-ring--just like a single 120 V/20 A duplex outlet. I'd rather do something to make them attach to the 2 gang mud ring. The pic shows two rectangular slots in the mud-ring where I wish there were threaded holes to center the outlet.

The next quandry is that I cannot find a wallplate on Leviton's website that is designed for the L6-30R receptacle (1.6" dia.) that is 2-gang. They are all 1-gang! :(

What all this is telling me is that all my L6-30R receptacles will need a 1-gang mudring and a 1-gang wallplate. :( The attached pdf is a page from Leviton's catalog...scroll to the bottom of the page.

Tell me I'm wrong here and help me see the light! :)

[Rob Russell]

Chris,

I have good news and bad news.

The good news first. Hubbell makes a plate for (2) 1.6" round devices. The plate is Hubbell S320. Here's a link to the Hubbell catalog. http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/library/Section-K.pdf. Search for "S320".

The bad news is that this plate is designed to fit a 3-gang box.

Rob

[Chris Padilla]

Rob,

Unless I missed something, it looks like you have delivered good news AND good news!

Look at the wallplate just above the S320 for the S749. The S749 looks like precisely what I need!

Now, however, I still need a way to mount the 30A receptacle in the center of my 2-gang mud-ring above. I think some short machine screws/nuts will work but what a PITA...I sure wish those two rectangular slots weren't there so I could drill my own holes and tap them.

I think those two rectangular slots are there for clearance purposes of screws used on the outer portion of the receptacle strap.

Thanks for finding the wallplate...I think I'm halfway there now. :)

[Rob Russell]

Chris,

I thought you meant that you wanted to mount 2 devices in the box. Given that you just want 1 device, I understand now.

I seem to remember mounting rings at the big box that centered a single device across a 2-gang opening - it's just a flat plate that would mount. Try looking for one of those. Maybe it's just my imagination.

The other thing is to just use the single device mudring. Yeah, you won't have as much finger room access to the box, but you should have enough. You really don't want to modify stuff to mount devices. I believe that would actually violate the NEC because it means the plate/fixture/whatchamacallit isn't being used for a "listed" purpose.

FYI, you don't want any devices in your boxes when the sheetrock goes up. Also, push all the wires to the very back of the box to protect them from the Rotozip-type drywall cutout tool. Stuff some newspaper into the box. That way when they spray the walls with primer you won't get paint over all of your wiring. Same holds true with the newspaper for recessed cans if you ever install any of those.

Rob

[Chris Padilla]

I was thinking (dangerous...veeerrrryyyy dangerous) that I could still drill some holes off-center just a hair. The wall plate should still cover the mud-ring...I think. What are they, 6/32 holes?

I'll keep a look out for a 'mount a single device in a 2-gang box' thingamajig...I seem to recall something like that, too.

Good idea on the newspaper and I have used some appropriately placed zip ties to secure the wires as far back into the box as possible. The mud-ring, however, should do a decent job of protection the wires, too, I think. :)

Thanks a bunch as always!

[Chris Padilla]

On a different subject, I also mounted the same 4 11/16" boxes for my ceiling lights.

They have mud-rings to convert the square to 2 3/4" round boxes (see pic).

What I am missing now is a nice, clean way to get from the light/ceiling box to the light itself.

[Rob Russell]

Our local HD has raised covers for the 4 11/16" box ith 1 single 1.6" hole, on clearance for $1.50. If your boxes are installed 1/2 back, you'd need to find a 1/2 extesion ring. The other thing is to tell the rockers to cut super tight around the outside of the box.


What kind of ceiling lights are you doing?

[Chris Padilla]

I'll check my Home Depot (happen to have a SKU handy? ...didn't think so... :) ) but they don't have much for the 4 11/16" box stuff. I had to get my 4 11/16" mud-rings from an electrical supply house....

I'm putting in 8' T8 fluorescents from Home Depot. I just wired boxes in approximate locations with the intention of running a wire from the box to the light...or something like that.

[Rob Russell]

If you're planning to mount the lights right over the box, I don't believe you need a separate cover. You would need a grommet or sleeve in your light fixture so your conductors don't have a sharp edge to rub against.

[Peter Stahl]

Another question I discovered I need to research a bit popped up last night.

I decided to start putting the mud rings on my boxes (gee, I didn't buy enough go figure....)

All my boxes are the 4 11/16 in² by 2 1/8 in deep size.

The mud-rings I have are, of course, for 4 11/16 boxes and 5/8" extruded to match my drywall and are for 2 devices or 2 gang as shown in the pic.

What I discovered last night is that my 240 V/30 A L6-30R receptacles (see pic) appear to be designed to attach to a 1 device or 1 gang mud-ring--just like a single 120 V/20 A duplex outlet. I'd rather do something to make them attach to the 2 gang mud ring. The pic shows two rectangular slots in the mud-ring where I wish there were threaded holes to center the outlet.

The next quandry is that I cannot find a wallplate on Leviton's website that is designed for the L6-30R receptacle (1.6" dia.) that is 2-gang. They are all 1-gang! :(

What all this is telling me is that all my L6-30R receptacles will need a 1-gang mudring and a 1-gang wallplate. :( The attached pdf is a page from Leviton's catalog...scroll to the bottom of the page.

Tell me I'm wrong here and help me see the light! :)

Chris,

Check with a real electrical supply store. My local supply is usually cheaper and WAY More helpful than the big box stores. Look in the yellow pages, some only sell wholesale. Take the pictures from the Leviton site so they know exactly what you're talking about.

Pete

[Rob Russell]

Chris,

If what you're trying to do is have the boxes covered by sheetrock so all you see is the receptacle and cover plate, I would:

get a single gang raised mudring/mounting plate to fit the 4 11/16" sq box (which has a rectangular opening, not 1.6" round);
do the sheetrock;
mount your device to the mudring; and,
mount a single gang cover to the device.
Simple and straightforwards. Right?

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Guys.

I'll be visiting my electrical supply house some time today and get some things cleared up. I have visited them before because they carry all the 4 11/16" box stuff whereas the borg has mostly 4" box stuff. Funny thing, the electrical suppy house is located right behind Home Depot! :) I've even gotten them to match a few prices here and there.... :)