Joining without a joiner

[Dennis Putnam]

I have some large drawer fronts to make and have run into a problem. My fronts are just under 14"X24" and no one sells 14" wide lumber within a reasonable distance. I don't need but 8' so ordering online is not practical. So I'm stuck with 8" and 6" glue ups. Since I don't have a joiner I'm not sure of the best method to do this. I've read several techniques for using a router but I either don't understand them or don't have the accessories to do it.

I guess this is a long winded way of asking how to do this on the cheap. I've seen Norm do glue ups without biscuits claiming modern glues are sufficient (although I don't know exactly how he lined them up well enough). Assuming that is true and the fact that these fronts are to be painted, why wouldn't gluing them up, as is, be sufficient? Would there not be enough surface area for a solid bond? Is measured stock square enough? I could simply fill in the little flaws with some wood filler. Also what kind of glue (I've done well with Elmer's carpenter glue on other things)?

Thanks.

[Prashun Patel]

Use a wood glue. You can get Titebond I or II from HD.
The edge joint will have plenty of power. No biscuits required, however they do assist with lining up the joint.

You can use a belt sander to get the panels reasonably flat. Just use a straight edge to keep checking yourself.

[Joe Von Kaenel]

Dennis,

I've glued a lot of panels together just using Tite bond and gluing the sawed boards together. I have a crappy little Jointer that is more of a wood chip maker. :o


Joe

[Bill Huber]

I have found for me when I am making a panel I will get them really close but just not flat like I want. I have a small junk jointer but it really does not help, the fence moves so much I don’t think you could make a square edge with it.

But I have found a way for me to get them flat on the glue up, I am sure that are many of you that have done this all along but I am just finding it out.

Here is what I do, this assumes that your saw is set up correctly and you have a good rip blade on it. I am using a heavy duty rip blade, it is not the glue line blade, the only difference is it has 6 less teeth.

Your saw should be set to 90 degrees to the table. Now this is the problem, what is exactly 90 degrees? If you are set are 89 degrees you cannot make a truly flat panel. When you clamp them together there will be a slight buckle, yes at 89 it will be very slight but it is still not flat.

Start by marking your board for the top and I use an A and a B on the edges. I put a 1 on the first and 2 on the second and so on to show the top and the order the boards go in to keep my grain pattern, you can use the triangle if you like. Then I put an A for the fence on the right and an B for the fence on the left.

So on a 3 boards panel they would all have a number on them for the top, starting left to right the boards would be marked A – B, A – B, A - B. You don’t need to rip the first edge or the last edge at this time if you don’t want.

Now set the fence on the table saw to the right and rip all the A edges, in this case it would be board 2 and 3. Now move the fence to the left side of the blade and rip the B edges.

That is all there is to it, the boards will go together dead flat, if your blade was set at 70 degrees they would still go together flat. Now you still should use cauls when clamping them up but they will be flat. I put packing tape on my cauls so I don’t get any glue on them, just replace the tape for the next glue up.

I put the panel in the parallel clamps with the cauls on the ends and if it is a long panel one in the center, I don't use biscuits or dowels for most of the small panels I glue up. On a large panel like 3 ft. or more, I will use dowels spaced about every 10 inches.

[Van Huskey]

Do you have a router table with a fence, if so it is simple and we can talk you through jointing on a router table.

[Dennis Putnam]

Thanks for the replies. I do have a router with a good fence but I think I understand Bill's method and why the facing panels are done on opposite sides of the blade. Makes sense and accounts for misalignment. The only thing it can't accommodate is any runout but since I'm painting that shouldn't be a problem as long as I wind up with a flat panel.

[Mike Cutler]

Dennis

Bill's method is the "standard" so to speak when doing panel glueups, even if you know that your machine is "dead nuts on". The only thing I'll add to it is that a little foresight is needed.
Bill refers to stacking the panels to maintain orientation of grain pattern. I would add to also pay attention to grain, so that if you ever do have to do any planing after glueup ( maybe not this project), the grain is running the same direction. I think Bill implied it in his statement, it's just a small point that usually escapes attention, even when you know to do it:o.

If you're going to use Titebond, your joint needs to fit together tightly. Any gaps you would have to fill in the glueline would be weak spots. If you find that you still have gaps for any reason, consider epoxy as an alternative. It has better gap filling properties than Titebond,and requires much less clamping pressure. In fact almost none. It's more expensive, but it may help you out should the need arise.
In abscense of aligning the edges with biscuits, or a T&G joint, some simple gluing cauls could be used to keep everything flat, and aligned.


The router method for flattening panels requires only a bowl shaping bit. The actual jig is made from scraps, or a sheet of BB plywood.
On a small piece like you are referring to, it could be done with great success. Your tablesaw top could be your refernce surface on these panels.

[Van Huskey]

I find a router table does the best job of pretending to be a jointer for edge jointing. Here is some info:

http://www.newwoodworker.com/jntwrtr.html


There are tons of explanations and videos for this on the web.

[Chip Lindley]

Joining without a joiner is not the same as Jointing without a jointer. I see now you are more interested in joining the two boards together without the aid of a biscuit joiner, than interest in accurately straight-edging the boards without a jointer. But now you have info on both facets of gluing up panels.

[Dave Rathert]

I’ve had good luck using the method described in Van’s link “Jointing on a Router Table.” Titebond II or III, no biscuits.
-D

[Kevin Womer]

Prashun Patel- "Use a wood glue. You can get Titebond I or II from HD.
The edge joint will have plenty of power. No biscuits required, however they do assist with lining up the joint."

I recently tried the Gorilla Glue (White) wood glue from HD, dries clear not like the yellow glues. I like it a lot and thought I would pass this along, it's not too expensive either.
Kevin

[Mike Cruz]

Chip, great catch. I looked over that completely. I just assumed the latter.

So, yes you can join two boards without anything but glue, as long as you have two flat surfaces. No buscuits or dowels or alignment or strengthening needed.

[Dan Karachio]

I used the router table method, but after getting a nice used heavy and long 6" jointer on CL for $300, there is no comparison. I cannot tell you how happy I am to create perfect panel glue ups with my jointer. I love my jointer. Some day, some day a 8 or larger...

[Dennis Putnam]

I'm afraid that Bill's method does not work for me. I must have too much wobble or a warped blade, at least for this level of precision. The resulting gaps appear to be too many to get a good glue bond. I read the link for using a router but it depends on a split fence which I don't have. I suppose I could do it that way if there were some kind of shim I could clamp to the out-feed side of my fence but I don't have anything that accurate other than a metal straight edge rule but I think it may be too thick for a single pass. Suggestions?

[Jerome Hanby]

You could clamp (or screw if your fence has some holes already) a piece of MDF to each side of your fence, basically creating a split fence. Then glue a piece of laminate to the out-feed piece of MDF and I think you would be in business.

[Trent Shirley]

You need to first get one good edge on your board and what you get when you buy the board is usually not good enough.
You can use your table saw to joint by building a simple jig. There are several ways to do it, one is to build a clamping jig that holds your piece in position while you make one good straight cut across the table saw so you then have a good reference edge that can be used against your fence. Another jig type works very similar to what you would do with a split fence on your router table. You will of course have to make sure that your blade and fence are aligned correctly with the table.
Just google "jointing on table saw" for some details.

Once you have one good straight edge on your board your table saw can do the other edge assuming your blade and fence are aligned correctly.
You would still use the method of alternating the cut to make sure they fit together in case the blade was not a perfect 90 deg.

I could not for the life of me get a good straight cut on my Ridgid R4511 saw. I ended up having two problems. The blade was not aligned with the table/mitre slots and the factory fence had a .07 (or .007?) dip in the middle causing my cuts to be off. People kept telling me that was not much of a gap and should still be OK but when you double it for each piece of wood it was visually significant.
I upgraded the fence to a Biesemeyer and aligned the blade and now things work well.

[Dennis Putnam]

Thanks, I did something similar. I found an old framing square that was not as thick as the 48" metal rule and clamped it to the out feed side. While there was some tear out as I moved the material through, it was always less than the depth of the bit. It clogged the bit area occasionally but was easy to remove and did not effect the end result. I now have suitable gluing surfaces.

[Bill Huber]

I'm afraid that Bill's method does not work for me. I must have too much wobble or a warped blade, at least for this level of precision. The resulting gaps appear to be too many to get a good glue bond. I read the link for using a router but it depends on a split fence which I don't have. I suppose I could do it that way if there were some kind of shim I could clamp to the out-feed side of my fence but I don't have anything that accurate other than a metal straight edge rule but I think it may be too thick for a single pass. Suggestions?

I don't understand why it is not working, are you using a thin kerf blade?
I use a full kerf blade on my Jet contractor saw and it always come out really good with no gapes.

I do have a sharp blade, I do make sure I keep the wood against the fence and I do not over feed the wood.

If you want to use a router you could also use a straight edge and a pattern bit and get a good glue face.

[Thomas love]

When all else fails a work bench and a 7 or 8 and a little practice, eventually it turns into fun. Just for the record I have the power tools to achieve this task, and I still grab the hand planes every chance I can :)
tom

[Nathan Callender]

I joint using a jig on the table saw, either a sled style jig or a carriage that you put over the board to add a reference straight edge. The trick is to use a full kerf blade and once you straight line rip one side, go back over it taking a 32nd or so off. I also use a combo blade, but I don't think it matters as long as it's not a super aggressive cut. I get perfect glue ready joints this way. I actually just started working on 22 glue up panels tonight, so I'll be doing this for the next few days in my spare time.

[Rod Sheridan]

If all you want is complementry edges to glue up a panel use a hand plane.

Take the two boards that will be used and sandwich them together with the fronts against each other.

Plane them with a handplane at an angle close to 90 degrees. They now are complementary angles and when you put them edge to edge they'll fit perfectly.

It's the same technique used with a power jointer, one board is run face aginst the fence, the other back against the fence. It cancells out any angle your fence may have.

Regards, Rod.

[Bill White]

A good glue-line rip blade helps too.
Bill