sliding table saw

[Jaromir Svoboda]

Need your help.
I can get 10' sliding table saw in good condition for free.I dont know what brand it is but its made in Italy.Only problem is,its 3 Ph.
How hard is it to install phase converter and how mutch it will cost?
Or should I just pass?
Thank you.

[David Christopher]

never pass on free....what is the HP of the saw...google static phase converter

[Steve Rowe]

Wow, a 10' Italian slider for the cost of a phase converter! It is not hard to install a phase converter but you may want an electrician to install to ensure code requirements are satisfied for your area. Cost for a good quality rotary with controls start at about $1000 for a converter capable of starting a 10HP motor.

[Jaromir Svoboda]

So I will need phase converter and control panel,right?

[Michael Arruda]

You can get a static phase converter, depending on the HP of the motor, for anywhere from $50-$300. This will get you a working saw- It is basically a big capacitor set up that gives a "simulated" 3rd leg to the 3 phase motor to start it, then runs on 2 legs. This is not detrimental to the motor once it's up to speed, but you will lose approximately 1/3 of your Torque.

Second option is a rotary phase converter- this uses a static phase converter to start a 3ph motor with no load, which then runs on 2 legs, using the 3rd winding as a generator to create an artificial 3rd leg. This allows you to feed real 3ph power to the saw's motor, allowing it to function properly and have full torque. You can buy a rotary converter, or if you're handy, build one. Cheapest way is to build a static phase converter, easiest way is to buy a static phase converter. Buy a 3ph motor from a motor shop, ebay, CL- 3ph motors, used, are cheap due to their limited use to the home user. Get a motor rated for at least as much HP as the saw. feed 220v into a 3ph panel, then another circuit into your rotary converter. Pull the 3rd leg off the rotary converter and into the 3rd post on the 3ph box, wire 3ph breaker into your saw. Presto chango, you have a functioning saw.

Oh, and if you go with a rotary, over size it a little- 7HP saw, get a 10HP motor; That way you can run the other industrial quality 3ph tools you can now buy cheap and use on the same system!

-Michael

[Peter Aeschliman]

What about buying a new motor, ala baldor?

[Peter Quinn]

I put in a 10HP rotary phase convertor capable of starting maybe a 7.5HP machine load last year, cost $700 for the motor and control panel, another $250 in cable and parts. So the $1k for 10hp is pretty accurate. Mine was a genetic American Rotary, it runs on a shiftless Baldor generator motor made for the purpose, the power is nearly perfect, easy to install with basic electrical skills.

As to the saw, free is great but not always good. A 10' slider is large and heavy, and if the carriage has been damaged in some way to render it inoperable or inaccurate you could be looking at a real problem. Me being a synic I'm asking why someone is giving away a slider? If it's a good machine, then great, but if it's wrecked, would the offer "I,m willing to park 1200#'s of junk in your shop for free!" sound as good? Not knowing the details I'm left to wonder.

[Tom Rick]

This saw in CA?

I ran through a "free" SCMI (Italian slider) saw a bit ago from a CL add in CA. It turned out to be a dead deal as the person listing the add failed to carry through and disappeared.

In another attempted tool purchase through CL a few weeks back I lost a few hundred through fraud- Item never sent and seller disappeared. I would be very cautious if this is not a face to face transaction. Money sent for shipping, crating etc could be lost if a fraud- use caution.

[Jaromir Svoboda]

I put in a 10HP rotary phase convertor capable of starting maybe a 7.5HP machine load last year, cost $700 for the motor and control panel, another $250 in cable and parts. So the $1k for 10hp is pretty accurate. Mine was a genetic American Rotary, it runs on a shiftless Baldor generator motor made for the purpose, the power is nearly perfect, easy to install with basic electrical skills.

As to the saw, free is great but not always good. A 10' slider is large and heavy, and if the carriage has been damaged in some way to render it inoperable or inaccurate you could be looking at a real problem. Me being a synic I'm asking why someone is giving away a slider? If it's a good machine, then great, but if it's wrecked, would the offer "I,m willing to park 1200#'s of junk in your shop for free!" sound as good? Not knowing the details I'm left to wonder.


Its from friend of mine,he moved to biger shop and there is allready same sliding saw,so he just will leave his at old shop.

[John McClanahan]

If you decide against it, let me know. I will have the trailer hitched and waiting!:D:D Just kidding. Don't let it get away!

John

[Stephen Cherry]

I put together my rotary phase converter, with a 15 HP idler, for just a few hundred dollars. It really is nothing more than some capacitors, switches, a thermal overload, and a couple of other parts.

The big thing is to get a relatively large 3 phase 220 v motor to use as an idler. 15 hp is big for a hobby application, but for industry it is still nowhere close to being big. Motors are out there and cheap, you just need to find one.

Another option would be a VFD, depending on motor size. You can supply some 3 phase vfds with single phase power, if you derate the drive by half. For example, to run a 7 hp saw, you want a 15 hp drive.

I wouldn't let this stop you, it really is not difficult, but you do want to be careful in the way that you do it.

Also, the static convert option would likely be OK also. You just need to wire a start button with an extra contact, to which you wire a start capacitor between the start switch and the third leg of the motor. That way you push the start button and leave it pushed in until the motor is up to speed, then release the start button before the capacitor blows up (don't worry, you have some time, and it's just like starting a car)

Any specific questions, just let me know, I just went through all of this. Also, the practical machinist site has everything for this

[Rick Pettit]

Why not just put a new single phase 3hp motor on it and sell the 3 phase? Plenty of cheap motors to be had. Grizzly sells one for $270. Baldor would be better but the Grizzly or a Northern Tool brand would get you going. Take away the money you get for the 3 phase and you might have $300 in the saw. Not bad.

[Stephen Cherry]

Why not just put a new single phase 3hp motor on it and sell the 3 phase? Plenty of cheap motors to be had. Grizzly sells one for $270. Baldor would be better but the Grizzly or a Northern Tool brand would get you going. Take away the money you get for the 3 phase and you might have $300 in the saw. Not bad.

These saws would typically have a 7-10 hp motor, and who knows what the mounting would be, plus there is probably an additional scoring motor to think about.

[Michael Panis]

I'd budget $1100:
$750 phase converter
$250 misc. cables etc.
$100 really nice gift for your friend
------------
$1100

[Dave Cav]

If it's five HP or below, a VFD will be your best option assuming it's 230/240 volts. If it's 480 then you will need a step up transformer, too.

If it's over 5 HP, then you will need a rotary phase converter (and a big breaker in your power panel to feed it). And if it's 480, you'll still need a step up transformer.

If it's dual voltage (240/480) motor, then no problem, just connect connect the leads in the peckerhead for the lower voltage.

In no case would I use a static phase converter unless you really like the smell of burned motor windings.

You really don't want to try to convert it to a single phase motor for a number of reasons.

If it has a scoring saw with it's own motor, then you need to take that into consideration, too. Also if there are low voltage controls involved. All in all, this "free" saw will probably cost you between $500 and $1000 if not more, plus all the messing around it will take to get it running. None of the above options are plug and play although the VFD can be close, if it's an uncomplicated setup.

[Jaromir Svoboda]

I have it on my trailer,its 9 hp with scoring saw.I think its dual voltage.
I have no idea how I will get it in my shop.There is no driveway and shop is 120' from street.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I bet the saw would be a joy to use just for the sliding table and the low vibration from the shear weight of the thing.

For home/hobby use, I'd think about changing the main motor to 3hp single phase if there is no funky internal circuitry involved. I can't imagine why a hobbyist would ever need or want more. The primary issue is to match the existing motor mount which may not currently meet a NEMA standard which would then require some cleverness on your part to adapt it. The reward is that you can plug your saw into a standard 240V 20A household circuit.

I'd also disconnect the scoring motor (if it's 3 phase too). It's a nice feature for commercial use, but new generation Hi-ATB blades with zero clearance inserts work really well these days for the serious hobbyist.

However, if you do go the motor swap-out route, keep the old motor if you ever need to disposition the saw. Or if you have intentions to go commercial.

Other considerations for having this saw is the arbor size. The 5/8" arbor that usually accompanies a 10" blade provides the most blade choices and economy to the hobbyist. Also, having dado capability is important too.

Good luck...and enjoy,

-Jeff :)

[Frank Drew]

I don't know this saw's specs, but I'd be hugely surprised if it had a 5/8" arbor.

Jaromir, great haul; if the saw works out for you you owe your friend big time!

[Mike Hollingsworth]

just a comment:
The saw is worth more (money) on the trailer than in your shop.

[Frederick Rowe]

I have no idea how I will get it in my shop.There is no driveway and shop is 120' from street.Build a new shop around it.

[Peter Quinn]

Congrats. We have a slightly younger version of that same saw in the shop where I work, and its a fine tool. Ours is a 14", and if you will be using it at its full capacity, you will be thankful for that 9HP. We never use the scoring feature with a good blade. Its a big sucker, but smooth as can be! Enjoy that!

[Donny Lawson]

I've got a BIG Driveway so you can drop it off here and I'll store it for you.:D.That's what are friends for?
Donny