My Bar is Too Short...

[Gordon Vizecky]

...on my chainsaw.

Maybe everyone does this but I thought I would toss out a tip that has saved me a ton of time and effort recently (and I haven’t seen it elsewhere).

My lathe has a 24" swing but my chainsaw only has an 18" bar. At some point I will probably upgrade but the prices seem to jump dramatically once you cross the 20" threshold.

I had been rip cutting my logs from one end and then from the other end to get the pith cut out. Turns out I couldn't make the two kerfs line up to save my life and I ended up with a boogered up center (for the screw chuck). I also created twice the shavings because I was cutting through the entire log twice.

Then I realized that if I cut through only once I could use wedges to split the last 2-6 inches but my middle would be nice and flat for the screw.

One word of caution. The risk of kickback is high when the blade is fully engaged (including the tip). I stand off to the side so if it were to kickback the risk of injury is reduced.

I put together a quick video of the process yesterday.

I still can’t get my cuts to line up when cutting around the log (maybe someday) but this helps a ton on the rip cuts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhbcNfrnWs

[Gary Conklin]

Use a piece of chalk to make your marks on either side, mucho easier to line up what is already marked for you!;)

[Allen Neighbors]

Gordon, thanks for the video! :) Man, you sure do some fast work! :D

[Andrew Kertesz]

I want to know how you drive both those wedges at the same time with one blow..

[Tim Rinehart]

As you said...care for those kinds of cuts must be taken, but that's a nice technique. Well done and I like the background music!!

[David E Keller]

Nice video... Too bad the trees around you are so tiny!:eek::D

Looking forward to seeing that piece when it comes off the lathe.

[charlie knighton]

thanks for sharing Gordon

[Gordon Vizecky]

I should take a more recent picture but these are the bowls I rough turned and sealed in June and July. Man does that elm stink. I've got two or three big chunks left and I will be happy when it has been turned.

[Ryan Baker]

One word of caution. The risk of kickback is high when the blade is fully engaged (including the tip). [/COLOR]

When you have the whole bar buried, always keep the tip of the bar slightly higher than the powerhead end and you won't have kickback. It's when you lever the bar down with the tip lower that you get into the kickback danger zone.

A long bar (and a skip-tooth chain if necessary) is a relatively inexpensive way to stretch an existing saw for occasional big jobs (cutting blanks, not felling).

And yes, splitting wedges are your friends. :)

[Joe Scarfo]

This video was soooo useful for a newb like me to turning bowls.

Thanks...

Joe

[David DeCristoforo]

"My Bar is Too Short..."

Isn't there a pill for that?

[David Christopher]

"My Bar is Too Short..."

Isn't there a pill for that?

I was thinking the same thing.........LOL

[Nathan Hawkes]

You know, I got accused of needing that little pill when someone remarked on the size of my chainsaw and long bars...

I have a couple (running) chainsaws; a Stihl MS361, 20", and a Husqvarna 394XP with 20", 32", and 42" bars. And yes, I have actually used and needed the big one on more than a few occasions; I mill with it. You're right about the $$ factor. A typical "homeowner" grade saw, either husky or stihl (as most of the ones sold at even the stihl dealers are plastic homeowner saws), is not going to be able to run a 24" bar. Even a 20" is a stretch for some of them. Think 65-70cc minimum. Consider a Dolmar, Efco, or Solo chainsaw, which are all German made, and typically a lot less expensive than Stihl or Husqvarna commercial models. Look for the stihls that are twice as expensive as the "same specifications" models next to them, and the husky saws badged "XP". You won't find any of those at Lowe's.

[Reed Gray]

It is possible to make the cuts from both sides. I keep a number of plywood strips from 1 to 8 inches wide, in half inch increments,and cut on the table saw, for marking out both ends of the log. Having a line to cut really helps, at least as much as a longer bar. I do make a cut on the outside of the log, so there is a flat to lay the blank on for cutting off the corners. Hate it when it starts rocking, and you just end up turning most of it off anyway.

robo hippy

[Leo Van Der Loo]

This certainly helps with ripping cuts, as the wood will split easier that way, but with crosscuts the splitting doesn't work.
I roughly do the blank making much like you (I use a 24" bar) but rather than going down like you do and then split the rest, I just go from side to side or end to end, depending making crosscut or ripping, that way I don't need to have the tip of the saw buried in the log and risking a kickback.
A picture is worth a ............. , so here's one , maybe it helps to make it clear.


------------------------162059

[Jeff Nicol]

Gordon, I do a lot of cuts with the chainsaw but when the going gets tough I get out the big guns! The Woodmizer sawmill makes short work of those pesky logs! Since we all can't have that option, Leo, Reed and the others have given you good ideas.

Stay safe and have fun,

Jeff

[Gordon Vizecky]

Thanks for the additional tips guys.

I on smaller logs I normally cut a flat spot on the bottom as Reed suggested, but with these big logs there is enough mass that rocking isn't an issue.

I'd like a woodmizer but I don't have anywhere to put it. I've already got ten pounds of tools in a five pound garage. :)

A saw with a 28" or 30" bar is on my list but it hasn't made it to the top yet (someday).

Good Tip on the "see saw" cutting Leo, when I cut both sides all the way down everything works well for the first half of the second cut and then the tip of the bar wanders and My kerfs don't line up. Maybe if I alternate it will work better.

[Steve Kubien]

Gordon, I was watching your other video about coring and something concerned me... Have you ever had a blank that large come off the screw chuck/woodworm screw? It really strikes me that a faceplate would be much more secure.

Maybe I should mind my own business.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Thanks for the additional tips guys.

I on smaller logs I normally cut a flat spot on the bottom as Reed suggested, but with these big logs there is enough mass that rocking isn't an issue.

I'd like a woodmizer but I don't have anywhere to put it. I've already got ten pounds of tools in a five pound garage. :)

A saw with a 28" or 30" bar is on my list but it hasn't made it to the top yet (someday).

Good Tip on the "see saw" cutting Leo, when I cut both sides all the way down everything works well for the first half of the second cut and then the tip of the bar wanders and My kerfs don't line up. Maybe if I alternate it will work better.

Gordon, when you way "wandering", is the cut drifting or curving to one side consistently? If so that is likely an issue of the chain having uneven length cutters on one side (and a pro sharpening job will clean things up and even out the teeth). Or it could just be you rip like I do and can't get the @*$! kerfs to line up.:rolleyes:

Maybe we each need a 394 like Nathan. I have saw envy thinking about that.

[Gordon Vizecky]

Gordon, I was watching your other video about coring and something concerned me... Have you ever had a blank that large come off the screw chuck/woodworm screw? It really strikes me that a faceplate would be much more secure.

Thanks Steve,

I'm really paranoid about having a big blank come off when I am roughing. That being said, I have never had one work loose from the screw on a big blank. I'm also a bit OCD about checking the tightness of the tailstock during the process.

Faceplate would be strong no doubt about it, but with the tailstock tight, fundamentally we are talking about the shearing forces across the face of the blank or the cross section of the hardened woodworm screw. Not that it couldn't happen but I've not seen a report of a screw center failure on a Oneway Chuck.

True there is some built in redundancy with multiple smaller (#10 size) screws and a faceplate but is it really that substantial?

Have you ever had one pull loose? True it looks scary, then again it doesn't matter what it is fastened to, an out of round blank that size looks scary all by itself.:)

[Gordon Vizecky]

Gordon, when you way "wandering", is the cut drifting or curving to one side consistently? If so that is likely an issue of the chain having uneven length cutters on one side (and a pro sharpening job will clean things up and even out the teeth). Or it could just be you rip like I do and can't get the @*$! kerfs to line up.:rolleyes:

Maybe we each need a 394 like Nathan. I have saw envy thinking about that.

Thanks Jake,

I currently do have my chains professionally sharpened, and I can't seem to cut straight from two ends of the log even with a new chain. I think my problem is that the weight of the saw is offset in relation to the bar and when I get about halfway through the log I can follow the close end of the bar but loose track of the tip. That coupled with the offset weight messes me up. I'd probably have an easier go of it if I just spent more time cutting. It just doesn't seem like I get enough chainsaw time in the office.

I've got some serious saw envy myself but in the end while not a "perfect" solution this may allow people a work around to using larger blanks.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Thanks Steve,

I'm really paranoid about having a big blank come off when I am roughing. That being said, I have never had one work loose from the screw on a big blank. I'm also a bit OCD about checking the tightness of the tailstock during the process.

Faceplate would be strong no doubt about it, but with the tailstock tight, fundamentally we are talking about the shearing forces across the face of the blank or the cross section of the hardened woodworm screw. Not that it couldn't happen but I've not seen a report of a screw center failure on a Oneway Chuck.

True there is some built in redundancy with multiple smaller (#10 size) screws and a faceplate but is it really that substantial?

Have you ever had one pull loose? True it looks scary, then again it doesn't matter what it is fastened to, an out of round blank that size looks scary all by itself.:)
I used to use exclusively faceplates for turning bigger blanks, but I attatched them to the "inner" surface of the bowl, in order to get an exterior profile turned and a tenon for my Stronghold chuck. IMHO, #10 screws are pretty small for this; I use at least #12, and if I have any doubt at all, I predrill and use #14. I ran into problems frequently with really irregularly shaped pieces that had to be chiseled flat on the surface before being able to attatch a faceplate, and even then, sometimes it wasn't even close to flat; I used washers stacked under the edges to keep it secure. Then, OneWay came out with the "Big Bite" drive spur, which is 3" or 4" wide. With the torque available in the Powermatic's tailstock, I don't worry about it coming loose, but on the old Rockwell that I had before it, I never would have considered turning a big bowl between centers. The major advantage for me is that I can reposition the blank easily if I suddenly realize that the rim surface of a natural edge is especially uneven on one side, etc. It does require a bit of strength to reposition large pieces, but I have safely, and quite aggressively turned pieces 18" in diameter--started out just barely clearing the bed before it was trued up to a cylinder. Mind you, with green wood, that drive center will gradually sink a little more in the wood and require re-tightening of the tailstock, just as you would re-tighten the jaws of a chuck around an especially wet tenon. This is easily done without stopping the lathe. I do use the locking screw on the tailstock ram just in case. Just thought you should hear it from someone who likes to really test things to the failure point. DO NOT do this if the piece is really soft or punky without really really making sure that the tailstock is tight. Despite those huge spurs, it WILL grind itself out in a very aggressive cut; it is fairly easy to stall the 3520 with an Irish grind 5/8" bowl gouge pulling a 3/4" wide shaving. When the VFD controller kicks in the extra power in case of a big slowdown in rpm, the spur may spin out, much like a car in soft ground. with flat blanks, I do use the screw center, and have only had an issue once, and it was because I grabbed the wrong size drill bit out of the case for the pilot hole!

As for your chainsaw envy, :D;); I'm a long haired tree-hugger at heart, but I have to admit the big saw is fun to use! Make sure that whoever sharpens your chains is keeping the left hand and right hand cutters even in size. With sharp chains, this is most often the cause of the saw veering to one side or another. Take a micrometer and measure several cutters on one side in a row, add the figures, and take an average. The sides should match. It's important to do several cutters in the measurement, as its fairly easy with some grinders to put a "little too much pressure" on a cutter and end up a little smaller. My grinder is a Chinese copy of an Oregon 511A, and is fairly uneven when changing the setup from left to right unless I adjust for it.

[scott schmidt grasshopper]

speaking of the too short a bar, if your chain is sharpened evenly ( and it doesnt have to be mic'ed in my opionon) and still cuts to one side, then your bar has uneven shoulders/ rails. your saw mechanic will regrind those square. once it cuts straight, then ,,,,
make your first cut as shown in the video and take your time not to horse the saw through the log then go to the other side/end of the log. insert the bar from the top into the previous cut and slowly continue the cut to the uncut end of the log, put more focus on keeping it straight instead of working the saw so hard. keeping the dogs out of the wood will help too,
as for saw size and bar . I have a stihl 032 and put a 24 inch bar on it, even with a full comp chain I can cut 24 inches of wood, I just have to seesaw back and forth alittle so I am not cutting 24 inches AT A TIME. that will improve your reach
good luck scott

[Steve Kubien]

Hey Gordon,

Ya, I had a small blank come off a screw chuck once. Scary does not begin to describe it. With the tailstock locked down tight you shouldn't have a problem but don't you have to remove the tailstock to finish up the tenon? That's when I really love the security of a faceplate and #12 or #14 sheet metal screws.

Cheers,
Steve

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Maybe you should have a better look Steve, you could have seen him turning a big tenon on the piece and then mount it in his Oneway Stronghold Chuck with the #3 jaws on it.
I don't know what kind of screw-chuck you used or how you got the small piece to come off, but I use the Oneway woodworm screw quite a bit without a tailstock, it is as safe as a regular chuck, if you know what you're doing.
Here are a few pictures of me using the woodworm screw on a large blank, it shows that the screw holds well even in reverse.

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum27.html

Oh and this was made for George Tokarev, when I was still on the rec.woodturning site that has no picture capability.