Band Saw Questions

[Jim Rimmer]

First, the background: I have a new Grizzly G0555X 14" bandsaw. I went through all the setup and tune up from the factory and from SMC. I took the original blade off and put on Timberwolf 1/2" 4 tpi (I think; I put a scale on it and counted the teeth over a 2" span). I had it running well and have used it several times. I made some rips, crosscuts, and resawed some QSWO. Everything was working well. Didn't even have any drift.

Saturday I made about a 3" longitudinal cut into 1/2 pine. Removed the board. Moved the fence back (with the saw running) in preparation to cut off the peice I had just cut. Did not bump the blade or anything. Was placing the miter gage on the saw (again, did not touch the blade or even get close) and the blade broke at the weld.

I had another blade just like it and today I tried to put it on. I have never been able to see the flutter and likewise tonight. After installation and tensioning as best I could everything runs well except the blade moves slightly front to back (about 1/8" or less). Redid tracking, messed with tension, nothing helps.

Put the original Grizzly 1/4" blade back on and couldn't get enough tension to even attempt to turn the saw on. I put the TW blade back on (I also have a 1/4" and a 3/4" TW blades I have not tried yet.) I have come to the conclusion that the tension scale is no where near accurate. With the new blade on and saw running everything seems OK, no strange noises, except for the front to back movement. But when I turn the saw off and it begins to spin down as it nears being stopped there is a metallic PING. I have not been able to trace it down.

Now the questions:

1. Since I could never clearly see the flutter, is it possible I overtensioned and that's what caused the blade to break?

2. I have read on SMC in some old posts that a bad blade can cause the front to back movement. Could I have a bad blade?

3. Any thoughts on the PING?

4. Any idea on why the original blade wouldn't tension? I never used it and it came detensioned so I don't know if it is even the right size?

Thanks in advance for your help. Sorry for the length of the post. And I am going to order Duginske's book tonight.

[Pete Bradley]

1. Since I could never clearly see the flutter, is it possible I overtensioned and that's what caused the blade to break?

2. I have read on SMC in some old posts that a bad blade can cause the front to back movement. Could I have a bad blade?

3. Any thoughts on the PING?

4. Any idea on why the original blade wouldn't tension? I never used it and it came detensioned so I don't know if it is even the right size?

1. It shouldn't be possible with that saw to tension the band to the point it breaks. Probably you had a less than ideal weld. However, it sounds like you also put the miter gauge on while the saw was running. You definitely shouldn't do any kind of setup with the saw running (and that includes off but spinning down). It's just too easy to get hurt that way.
2. 1/8" of front to back isn't going to make a difference in most use. Could be better of course. The most likely causes are a weld that's not quite straight, a kink, or (unlikely) a crown that's not right.
3. I'm guessing centrifugal switch in the motor. Nothing to worry about.
4. I'm not sure what you mean by "couldn't get enough tension to even attempt to turn the saw on". From what I hear the band that ships with the saw isn't much though.

[Dan Karachio]

Jim, hear me out. For $30 try a Woodslicer from Highland Woodworking. What do you have to lose (except $30)?

[Van Huskey]

Sounds like bad welds on both blades, which is the reason I no longer even consider TW blades.

The Woodslicer mentioned above is an excellent blade but overpriced. The Kerfmaster (from Spectrum Supply) is the same type of band (hardened spring steel, thin kerf) is made by Lenox and is about half the cost. Iturra also has the same band material as the Woodslicer and he is also cheaper. Be aware these are NOT general use blades the have a minimal set and are only about Rc 50 which means they dull quickly. These are excellent blades for resaw with minamal waste and due to the thin body they tension well on small cast saws, due to the minimal set they do not cut contours well since their is little set to open the kerf for the body to rotate.

For a genral use blades spend about $35 (for a blades for a 14" saw) and get a Lenox Diemaster 2, it is bimetal and will outlast the Woodslicer and similar by 10 times and a carbon blade about 8 times. The Woodslicer/Kerfmaster and the like should be viewed as a one trick pony that does that job very well on a small saw. A bimetal blade like a carbide blade will not be as sharp to begin with but will be sharp enough for quality cuts for a long long time.

The ping is hard to say without hearing it but my guess is it may be a result of the bad weld as well.

Unless you drive that saws tension until the spring is fully compressed and then some you should not be able to break a properly welded 1/2" blade.

The TW low tension is IMO garbage, but you don't have to take my word for it you have Duginski's book coming, he says the same in his book as he has said here, he is not quite so harsh and usues more tact though.

1. Make sure the you track down the ping issue

2. get some quality blades (bimetal will save lots of money in the long run)

3. tension using the scale on the saw, in the vast majority of cases it is close enough, you may step up a half a size for the bimetal blade as they like more tension

4. 1/2" or smaller bands on that saw EXCEPT if you use a .016" 5/8" blade, the really thin body will tension fine.

5. treat the Woodslicer and equals as a resaw only band

6. I have no idea what you mean by the original 1/4" blade not being able to tension correctly, was the ping your tension spring breaking? I haven't seen this but it could happen.

[Jim Rimmer]

Sounds like bad welds on both blades, which is the reason I no longer even consider TW blades.

The Woodslicer mentioned above is an excellent blade but overpriced. The Kerfmaster (from Spectrum Supply) is the same type of band (hardened spring steel, thin kerf) is made by Lenox and is about half the cost. Iturra also has the same band material as the Woodslicer and he is also cheaper. Be aware these are NOT general use blades the have a minimal set and are only about Rc 50 which means they dull quickly. These are excellent blades for resaw with minamal waste and due to the thin body they tension well on small cast saws, due to the minimal set they do not cut contours well since their is little set to open the kerf for the body to rotate.

For a genral use blades spend about $35 (for a blades for a 14" saw) and get a Lenox Diemaster 2, it is bimetal and will outlast the Woodslicer and similar by 10 times and a carbon blade about 8 times. The Woodslicer/Kerfmaster and the like should be viewed as a one trick pony that does that job very well on a small saw. A bimetal blade like a carbide blade will not be as sharp to begin with but will be sharp enough for quality cuts for a long long time.

The ping is hard to say without hearing it but my guess is it may be a result of the bad weld as well.

Unless you drive that saws tension until the spring is fully compressed and then some you should not be able to break a properly welded 1/2" blade.

The TW low tension is IMO garbage, but you don't have to take my word for it you have Duginski's book coming, he says the same in his book as he has said here, he is not quite so harsh and usues more tact though.

1. Make sure the you track down the ping issue

2. get some quality blades (bimetal will save lots of money in the long run)

3. tension using the scale on the saw, in the vast majority of cases it is close enough, you may step up a half a size for the bimetal blade as they like more tension

4. 1/2" or smaller bands on that saw EXCEPT if you use a .016" 5/8" blade, the really thin body will tension fine.

5. treat the Woodslicer and equals as a resaw only band

6. I have no idea what you mean by the original 1/4" blade not being able to tension correctly, was the ping your tension spring breaking? I haven't seen this but it could happen.
Thanks to you all for the quick replies. I had heard a lot of good comments on Timberwolf blades but so far am not impressed. Remains to be seen if I am the problem.

The ping happens every time I shut the saw down as it spins down and just before it stops. Seems to be coming form the motor cooling fan but it was getting late. I may take the fan cover off the motor and check tonight. May try it without a blade installed, too.

[Van Huskey]

The ping happens every time I shut the saw down as it spins down and just before it stops. Seems to be coming form the motor cooling fan but it was getting late. .


Pete is probably right, the centrifugal switch.

My TW issue is they had a lot of issues with welds, I haven't used them in a while and gathered they may have gotten that fixed. Silicon or Swedish steel blades are sharper than carbon at first but dull quicker and nobody seems to have any explanation why lower tension is better or even OK to use with them, if nothing else it has to reduce the beam strength. Lots of people swear by TW blades but my experience says there are better bands that are cheaper, YMMV.

[Myk Rian]

I've never had a problem with a TW blade breaking.

[Jim Rimmer]

I had some time to gt out to the shop tonight. Took the blade off, ran the saw, still had a ping. took the cover off the motor fan and BINGO. It was the centrifugal switch. Guess it's never been quiet enough in my shop to hear it before.

Took the 1/2" blade off, installed the 1/4" Timberwolf, adjustied tracking and tension and, glory be, no walking.

So, I guess I got two bad welds on the 1/2" TW blades. I will contact them and see what they will do about it.

The saw had been working perfectly and I just knew it had to be something other than a saw problem. Well, I guess a blade is a saw problem but you know what I mean.

Thanks for all the inpout. Duginski's book should be in my mailbox by Friday.

[Thom Porterfield]

I wasn't happy trusting the 5/8" blade that came with my Rikon...so I bought a 3/4" TW (and a 1/4" TW). The 1/4" blade is fine. The 3/4" blade was out of true by 1/8" front to back. The error was right at the weld. I returned the blade to Woodcraft Supply and they gave me a new one. I haven't yet tested out this new one.

According to the guy at Woodcraft, this is not an unusal problem. It seems TW has some problems with keeping their welds true--especially on wider blades.

[glenn bradley]

1. Since I could never clearly see the flutter, is it possible I overtensioned and that's what caused the blade to break?

As stated, unlikely that you could over tension the blade with that saw.

2. I have read on SMC in some old posts that a bad blade can cause the front to back movement. Could I have a bad blade?

Definitely a bad blade. I have had one bad weld from Timberwolf long ago. They replaced it without question. I have heard more frequent discourse regarding TW blades. I have just ordered four more so we shall see if it is a new trend or not . . . that's me, takin' one for the team ;-)

I have always used the flutter method even though it sometimes seems like the blade just can't be tight enough. I have no drift and change blades freely while maintaining alignment with the fence.

3. Any thoughts on the PING?

+1 on the Cent. Swx.

4. Any idea on why the original blade wouldn't tension? I never used it and it came detensioned so I don't know if it is even the right size?

Sorry, no clue there.

[Dan Karachio]

Van, you are my hero! I never knew about these blades and will try them out for sure! THANKS!!!

[Van Huskey]

Van, you are my hero! I never knew about these blades and will try them out for sure! THANKS!!!

No hero here, just passing along something that someone else here posted a while back, and I had good luck with.

They also have a 4 blade trial pack that is about $50 for a 14" cast saw with free shipping. It does have a .022 3/4" blade so it MAY not tension correctly on a cast saw but it is only $12.50 a blade in your mailbox.

[Chris Padilla]

The Lenox Diemaster2 is a great blade...have made many many resaws with it and it is still nice and sharp. It is also a reasonably priced blade. Mine is 1/2", 6 tpi, hook style.

That one and my Lenox Trimaster (carbide: $$$s!) are my go to blades for resawing. The Diemaster2 also works decent as a general purpose.

Lenox is it for me. I was never impressed with Timberwolf.

[Curt Harms]

The Lenox Diemaster2 is a great blade...have made many many resaws with it and it is still nice and sharp. It is also a reasonably priced blade. Mine is 1/2", 6 tpi, hook style.

That one and my Lenox Trimaster (carbide: $$$s!) are my go to blades for resawing. The Diemaster2 also works decent as a general purpose.

Lenox is it for me. I was never impressed with Timberwolf.

Is your Diemaster2 .032 thickness? The Diemaster2 bands listed at woodcraftbands . com with lower tooth count seem to be .032. The .025 Diemaster2s seem to be too high tooth count for woodworking. I'm wonder how 14" saws would fare tensioning a .032 X 1/2"? I believe you have a minimax saw which would not have an issue. I thought bimetal blades require quite a bit of tension.

[michael case]

Had a number of bad Timber Wolfs. The back and forth like the orbital motion on a jig saw is usually a blade where the weld is not aligned and the blade actually bows back to front.

[ian maybury]

I can't say if it's a regular problem or not, but i too ran into a weld problem with a 1/2 in TW blade i bought several months ago to test on my now sold Scheppach 5 series band saw - it was flat, but slightly bent backwards each side of the weld. i.e. the rear non toothed edge formed a shallow possibly 0.5mm in 150mm 'V'. (from memory, the dimensions might not be exactly right)

When running free the blade had a front to rear 'wobble' or kick at table level of maybe 2 - 3mm.

It seemed to induce quite a severe drift and tendency to bow sideways while re-sawing - even at the max tension the saw could apply. Apart from this the blade seemed to cut freely and well - chances are that a straight one is a good blade. The similar spec UK made blade that replaced it ran true and cut perfectly straight, so it wasn't anything to do with the saw set up...

[Anthony Whitesell]

Not going to be much help here, but I can say that my G0490X jointer makes a heck of a clack or maybe a ping when it is spinning down. It definately reminds me of a centrifugal clutch disengaging when the RPMs drop below the magic number. So I would be inclined to saw centrifugal switch.

Funny thing is that the G0513X2 bandsaw that I bought only a few months prior does not.

[Chris Padilla]

Is your Diemaster2 .032 thickness? The Diemaster2 bands listed at woodcraftbands . com with lower tooth count seem to be .032. The .025 Diemaster2s seem to be too high tooth count for woodworking. I'm wonder how 14" saws would fare tensioning a .032 X 1/2"? I believe you have a minimax saw which would not have an issue. I thought bimetal blades require quite a bit of tension.

Curt,

I *think* mine is around 0.032" kerf. I dunno about tension...I just crank it up until I get around 1/4" deflection and go for it. I have a 20" MM (Minimax).

[george wilson]

I had several Woodcraft welds break years ago. I always weld my own. I don't know what amateur welds some of these blades. Been welding my own since the 60's.

I just bought a new welder as the one on my metal bandsaw kept breaking down. I NEVER grind my welds. I anneal them,and file them. Then,after filing the weld bright,I can see the metal in the white,and I can more carefully anneal them blue.

Grinding them with the 3" wheel on most welders is not good. It doesn't let you FEEL how hard the blade is,like a file does,and it usually grinds a thin spot at the weld. Not good for strength. I bet most welders grind their welds as it is quicker.

[Van Huskey]

Is your Diemaster2 .032 thickness? The Diemaster2 bands listed at woodcraftbands . com with lower tooth count seem to be .032. The .025 Diemaster2s seem to be too high tooth count for woodworking. I'm wonder how 14" saws would fare tensioning a .032 X 1/2"? I believe you have a minimax saw which would not have an issue. I thought bimetal blades require quite a bit of tension.

.032 X 1/2" will be fine but I would tension it near or at the 3/4" range on the saw to start with.

[Jim Rimmer]

Talked to TimberWolf today and they are sending me two 1/2" blade replacements. One for the blade that broke and one for the wobbler. I'll see how these work out and try other brands on my next purchase.

I was very pleased with the treatment i received from TW customer service.

[Jim Rimmer]

Not going to be much help here, but I can say that my G0490X jointer makes a heck of a clack or maybe a ping when it is spinning down. It definately reminds me of a centrifugal clutch disengaging when the RPMs drop below the magic number. So I would be inclined to saw centrifugal switch.

Funny thing is that the G0513X2 bandsaw that I bought only a few months prior does not.
The PING sound was the centrifuagal switch.

[Myk Rian]

I have come to the conclusion that the tension scale is no where near accurate.
The scale is not intended to be accurate, and they never will be. It's just a reference.
Every blade can be just 1/8" longer or shorter (or more) than the last one. That will throw the scale accuracy right out the window.
A 1/4" blade might be reading at the 1/2" mark when properly tensioned, and vice-versa.

To flutter tension a blade, start with it tracking properly, but loose. Crank the tension up slowly. You will see the flutter, and see it stop as you go.
Tension another 1/4-1/2 turn. Mark the tension scale for each blade.

[Curt Harms]

.032 X 1/2" will be fine but I would tension it near or at the 3/4" range on the saw to start with.

Thanks. I might have to give it a try.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Talked to TimberWolf today and they are sending me two 1/2" blade replacements. One for the blade that broke and one for the wobbler. I'll see how these work out and try other brands on my next purchase.

I was very pleased with the treatment i received from TW customer service.

you will find that the folks at TW are very polite and genuinely want to be helpful. however, after 4 new blades had deficient welds, which led to "loping" (wandering), i got a Lenox blade from iturra design and the improvement in the performance of my 18" jet BS was incredible. the first video is with a .025" 1/2" 4tpi TW. the second is with a Lenox blade from iturra with the same specs as the TW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrxBP8YBKYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67s4qtbxHsk

iturra design doesn't have a website, but can be reached here:

http://www.manta.com/c/mmc3znn/iturra-design

there are few people with more BS and BS related experience than lou iturra. when you tire of wasting time with TW blades, check out iturra. that guy really knows how to weld a blade. just my $.02.

[Jim Rimmer]

you will find that the folks at TW are very polite and genuinely want to be helpful. however, after 4 new blades had deficient welds, which led to "loping" (wandering), i got a Lenox blade from iturra design and the improvement in the performance of my 18" jet BS was incredible. the first video is with a .025" 1/2" 4tpi TW. the second is with a Lenox blade from iturra with the same specs as the TW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrxBP8YBKYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67s4qtbxHsk

iturra design doesn't have a website, but can be reached here:

http://www.manta.com/c/mmc3znn/iturra-design

there are few people with more BS and BS related experience than lou iturra. when you tire of wasting time with TW blades, check out iturra. that guy really knows how to weld a blade. just my $.02.
Great videos. That first one is exactly what my TW blade was doing, only worse. In the second one I could even here your centrifugal switch click during spin down.

Thanks.