Glueing Spanish Cedar

[Anthony Whitesell]

I made an outdoor planter for the LOML of spanish cedar. I glued it together with titebond III. After that fell apart at the joints, I tried titebond III. What glue sticks to spanish cedar?

[Peter Quinn]

I've never had a problem gluing Spanish cedar, because I've never worked with it. :cool:

Uh, but I know some that have, for making garage doors commercially, and when I asked about it they said it was pretty much like working African mahogany. Don't recall any gluing issues noted. I think they were using titebond III? Not much info here I know, but thats my story.

[Ben Abate]

I have used it in a lot of applications but never in an outdoor application. I use a urethane type glue like Gorila Glue......I've not had a problem with it. I recently did a job that required me to glue a few pieces of cedar and redwood together and that is what I used. I also used this same type of glue when doing doors for a large horse barn recently. So, you might want to try urethan or Epoxy........I"ve never used Titebond III so I can't give an opinion.....


Hope this helps a bit
Ben

[Neal Clayton]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=252530&postcount=43

[Cary Falk]

I used some spanish cedar on a guitar a couple of years ago. It is still holding together. I used Elmers wood glue or Tightbond I. I can't remember. I think the outdoor part is the problem.

[Leo Graywacz]

Use it all the time. Nasty stuff. But glues fine with regualr glue. My choice is TB II. If you are doing exterior you need to have the correct joinery also. You can't depend soley on the glue on a miter to hold together. Use biscuits, dowels or dominos in your joints. Splines would work too. Did you protect the wood with paint or a preserviative? Sp Cd is a soft wood and will wxpand and contract a good amount with the changing humidity. So glues can fail after a while.

Try West System Epoxy. If it doesn't stay together with that then you have real problems.

[Jim King]

As Spanish Cedar is an acidic wood and will not mold in shipment when partially air dried it is very rarely kiln dried before shipping to the States.

A high moisture content could cause you glue failure. I agree that a biscuit or other fastner should be used as is is a soft porous wood.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I'll try some gorilla glue. All the joints (half lap and butt) have all failed. The wood is too thin for biscuits, dowels, or any "real" joinery.

[Justin Bukoski]

Anthony, you'll need to use some kind of mechanical fastener be it dowels or screws or bolts to hold joints like those together in an outdoor piece. Maybe epoxy but its just a matter of time.

[michael case]

Anthony,

I joined a series of shutters twenty years ago or so when Tite Bond II first came out. I used Tite Bond II with biscuits on the interior rails and tenons on the top and bottom rails. They are of western red cedar (a completely different animal I know) and are still hanging today in fine shape after twenty New England winters.

I would like to help out, but some clarifications would be nice. You glued with Tite Bond III then after it fell apart you glued it with Tite Bond III??

1. Did you start with II then Try III?

2. Did you try re-gluing the joints that already were sealed with glue?

3. What kind of joint was it?

Working on the assumption that you started with II and switched to III.

1. you can not re-glue a joint with these glues so III won't help

2. There are limited numbers of ways to properly join a box (note - "a box" not a frame like a shutter where the joints offer completely different gluing surfaces). Remembering that end-grain glue joints fail - butt joints are no good, miters are no good, and even dadoes (really a type of butt joint) are ultimately going to fail on exterior applications. There are three alternatives. 1 - Reinforce the joint mechanically i.e. screws or bolts in a butt or dado joint. 2 - Add some kind of spline to a miter therefore adding edge grain gluing (biscuits, a straight spline, dominos). 3 - Use a joint that offers the proper gluing surface contact i.e finger joints (often called box joints) or a variety of dovetail.

Your problem may have nothing to do with the glue or the Spanish cedar.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Anthony,

I joined a series of shutters twenty years ago or so when Tite Bond II first came out. I used Tite Bond II with biscuits on the interior rails and tenons on the top and bottom rails. They are of western red cedar (a completely different animal I know) and are still hanging today in fine shape after twenty New England winters.

I would like to help out, but some clarifications would be nice. You glued with Tite Bond III then after it fell apart you glued it with Tite Bond III??

1. Did you start with II then Try III?

I started with Titebond III which is supposed to be waterproof for outdoor use. It was my first use of this glue. When that failed I then sanded down the glued areas and reglued with Titebond I.


2. Did you try re-gluing the joints that already were sealed with glue?
See #1


3. What kind of joint was it??
Since the material I am working with is only 1/4" to 3/8" thick most of the joints are half-lap or rabbeted style (for lack of a better description).





Working on the assumption that you started with II and switched to III.

1. you can not re-glue a joint with these glues so III won't help

2. There are limited numbers of ways to properly join a box (note - "a box" not a frame like a shutter where the joints offer completely different gluing surfaces). Remembering that end-grain glue joints fail - butt joints are no good, miters are no good, and even dadoes (really a type of butt joint) are ultimately going to fail on exterior applications. There are three alternatives. 1 - Reinforce the joint mechanically i.e. screws or bolts in a butt or dado joint. 2 - Add some kind of spline to a miter therefore adding edge grain gluing (biscuits, a straight spline, dominos). 3 - Use a joint that offers the proper gluing surface contact i.e finger joints (often called box joints) or a variety of dovetail.

Your problem may have nothing to do with the glue or the Spanish cedar.

[Leo Graywacz]

TiteBond I is not rated for exterior.

[michael case]

Anthony,

a half lap in a rabbet provides only an end grain to edge glue surface. glue joint won't hold this way. 3/8" is awful thin for a planter. Try some the joinery methods I suggested with Tie bond III and perhaps 3/4" stock and things should work out better.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I figured that Titebond I wouldn't work, but since Titebond III had failed I figured it was worth a shot.

I don't have the material to start over so changing the joinery isn't an option. A 15" long box joint is quite a task. I know I've tried it before. Using thicker stock isn't an option either as it will lose the porportions and usability. It's a pretty intricate planter but it was just easiest to describe it that way.

Thanks for the info guys. I guess I'll have to brainstorm up another solution. I'm going to try gorilla glue and see what happens. I don't have anything to lose.