new handles for a pair of D8's maybe?

[Robert Culver]

Ok so I am wrapping up the handle on my Disston #7 and I have two D8's a rip with the thumb hole and the second is a cross cut with a standard handle both handles are in fair shape but do have some chipping. The steel cleaned up great on the cross cut saw it had some kind of thin film on it almost looked like pine risen and wax the rip saw was pretty rusty but came out good I think I may have to have this saw jointed and retooled as there is some pitting in the teeth. I am not sure how to handle this as I am no pro at this. Anyway the saw plates have a radius on them so I am wondering how to make new handles for them even if I wanted to has anybody done this would the saw lack structural integrity if the slot for the saw plate went all the way through the handle. I had such a great time with my other saw that I would really like to make new handles for these also but I don’t want to go through all of that just to find that I have to handles that don’t work right on the saws. Wihile the originals will stay with me I think I can make a nicer handle. The saws will be user saws for me but for me after redoing the D7 it would be worth it. This may sound kinda hocky to some because its just a saw but when I hold but handles for the d7 in my hand although they are very simalar in shape and size. The one that I made has more of an energizing feel to it.:rolleyes:

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Robert,

I´ve made a thumbhole handle shaped like the D 8 out of pear. The blade slot is straight since I don´t have the tool to make it curved. But that shouldn´t be a problem as I think. However it´s not finished and was therefore not mounted on a blade yet. Her some pics:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8mxkzBCYMc4/S71ozjZ9CAI/AAAAAAAAAYE/VUvhEBqIpqI/s1600/CIMG1607.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8mxkzBCYMc4/S71o0CJRvJI/AAAAAAAAAYU/L6042K19lBg/s1600/CIMG1612.JPG

The handle has still to be finished, I should do it finally since it´s lying there a few weeks already.

Klaus

[Robert Culver]

wow thats a beautiful handle so I guess my guestion here is is this for a d8 saw plate it would apear that the saw plate would have to be cut straight to fit the handle or maybe im not seeing thing properly?

[Marv Werner]

Very nice job on that handle Klaus!

Working with plumb is a pleasure.

I have not tried it yet, but Leif Hanson explained how he cut the curved slot in a D8 handle that he made. He cut the slot wider using a regular blade on his table saw. He cut the slot off center so the blade would be centered when against one side of the slot. Then he cut a thin laminate of the same wood and glued it in between the blade and the other side of the slot. After he finished it off you couldn't tell it was there.

In order to perform the cut, you have to do some jigging to hold the handle as you slide it into and down on the TS blade. If you go to his website and click around, you'll find an article he wrote up on it. It's hard to find so you might have to email him and ask him about it.
http://norsewoodsmith.com/

[george wilson]

Klaus,you have an excellent eye!! And hands,too!! Was your pearwood pretty hard? I always found Swiss to be too soft,but I had a bunch of Nigerian pearwood that was much harder.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

George,

many thanks. Don´t want to highjack Robert´s thread. Therefor short: the pear is pretty hard comparaple to other fruit woods like apple or plum. Swiss pear (which is not pear) is harder than pear. But for saw handles the hardness of fruit woods is normally enough. Many vintage saw handles are out of fruit wood.

I´ve made some saw handles out of exotic hardwoods, too, and I´m not sure if that´s the better choice. Why? The fruit woods are very easy to work with. It´s a pure joy to work with pear or with plum or with apple. The quality of the fruit wood handles is pretty good since more than 100 years.

Klaus

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Marv,

thanks for the hint. It´s very interesting for sure.

Klaus

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Robert,

my problem is that I don´t know if a curved blade from a vintage Disston saw will accept a straight blade slot. I guess it will so I think that there is no need to cut the blade straight. I think that it´s only a visual issue because there will be a gap on the top of the handle if the blade slot is straight cut.

Klaus

[Marv Werner]

Klaus.

If you are going for the original design of the Disston D8 saw handles, they were all "cover top" style handles. In fact the D8 was the first saw of that kind. Shortly after 1928, Disston went to the cover top style on all their saws.

There are actually two curvatures involved with that slot. So that makes it just a bit more complicated. I think I would cheat, cut the slot straight across and then glue in a thin strip of the same wood to create the cover top effect. No one needs to know, right?

I once bought a cheap 8" skil saw blade, the thinnest I could find. I then ground off the all the set in the teeth. I now have to jig it up in my lathe and machine it a little thinner. To get the full depth needed for a D8 handle I'll use the saw blade in my milling machine and saw it sideways.

Marv

[Robert Culver]

The handles are cover slot some interesting ideas have got me thinking however.. I would think it would be relatavely simple to cut straight slot then cover it by sliding a piece into the top of the slot.

[george wilson]

Rockler sells a carbide blade that is as thin as a dime. Not too cheap,though,and I can't recall if it is a 10" or an 8" blade.

If you had a milling machine,you can get hollow ground HSS slotting blades that are 6" dia. X .032 thick. I could rig up the blade horizontally to the table,and use a template to cut a curved bottom cut if I had to. I'd start with a bandsaw cut,and use the blade to cut the bottom curved.

[Robert Culver]

George Im glad you mentioned that I rember seeing that blade. I think it was a 10 blade. I hear some people say the blade is to thin but it think that rockler also sells a set of stiffeners to help I will poke around a bit today and see if thats a way to go. As far as machines go I have a table saw and a miter saw thats it for plug in tools. Up to writing this post I was really starting to think i was never going to use them again hahahaha.

[Marv Werner]

Hi Robert,

Yes, as I suggested, the simplest way to accomplish the cover top handle is to cut the slot straight and then glue in a thin sliver of the same wood to fill the slot and make it a cover top. If or when I make a cover top handle, that's exactly how I will do it. Much cheaper and easier than buying and using a large slitting saw blade.

Marv

[Marv Werner]

Robert,

Another thought regarding doing the cover top handle. Instead of gluing in a thin sliver to fill the top of the slot, make that top part of the slot wider, like 1/8" for example. Sawing a wider slot on a TS would be the ideal way of doing it. You only need to saw about 3/16" deep and saw all the way through, back to where top of the handle drops down. This will give you a length of straight flat area at the bottom of the slot to glue and clamp the new wood into and clamp side ways also.

I have repaired many D8 handles that have that front tip cracked or broken out due to improper removal of the handle. When I glue new wood to repair it, there is then some wood down in the original slot that prevents the blade from lining up with the handle holes. To easily remove that wood I remove the end of a hacksaw blade so I have teeth right at the tip end. I remove the end that makes the blade cut on the pull stroke. A hacksaw blade fits nicely in a typical slot in most handles. You can reach in and pull out the excess glue and the necessary amount of wood so the blade lines up with the holes.

[Robert Culver]

Marv thats very crafty indeed I really like approach now I have alot to consider. Thanks to all.

[Chris Vandiver]

You might want to look into a Japanese Azebiki saw for finishing up the curved section of the slot.

[Marv Werner]

Chris,

Is the blade the same thickness as a typical saw slot? If it's the same, sounds like a good idea because it will cut fast on the pull stroke. If it's thinner, then it's a bit of a chore to get the slot wide enough so the D8 blade will slip in smoothly. When removing the excess wood, attention must be given to not pulling out too much and leaving a feather edge right at the top point of the handle. I try to end up with no less than 1/16" of thickness there.

On a couple cover top handles, I've actually sawed off the top of the handle just above the slot area. Takes a little more reshaping of the new wood, but it makes for a very good repair.

I'm not familiar with the saw you are recommending. Can you tell us more about it? Cost, where to buy them?

Thanks,

Marv

[Chris Vandiver]

Marv,

I just took the handle off a D-100 to look at the shape of the plate and the shape is too complex for an Azebiki saw to work effectively. The larger radius of the plate is right around 3 1/2" and then there is the step down to a another radius(which I didn't measure)at the bottom of the plate. Obviously, Disston was jigged-up with a slitting cutter to perform such a complicated cut. After looking at the plate, if I were to make a new handle, I would be inclined to make it in two pieces(one piece being thicker to accommodate centering the blade).

[Marv Werner]

Thanks Chris for the saw info.

I thought of doing that at one time, making the handle in two pieces but you still have the problem making that odd shape for the radiused saw blade. I've never checked that smaller radius either. I need to split an old handle down the middle to see what it looks like in there. I have never felt that the extra machining effort on Disston's part justified what was gained by the results. I think it was more an advertising gimmick that anything else. The main reason for it was to locate the handle farther forward on the blade. They called it a "let-in" handle. Another advantage they claimed was to reduce the loosening of the handle. But I don't think it did all that much good. The handles still became loose. Actually a well fitted straight cut between the blade and the inside of the slot in the handle would have been more effective in keeping the handle from moving up and down or rotating. Better screw design would have helped also.

Just now googled the Azebiki saw. Looks like it would work to cut the underside of a repair to the top of a handle, but the blade might be too thin. But with some side pressure it could saw a wider kerf in that situation. I've seen those saws, just didn't know the name. A hacksaw is slow but effective. Always learning...always learning.

Thanks again,
Marv

[Chris Vandiver]

Marv,

I checked as well as I could and it seems that the slot for the blade in the D-100 I have is a mirror image(+/- 1/16") of the saw plate. If a new handle was made from 2 pieces, the recessed area for the blade could be an exact fit with a 1/16th or so of play. The depth of the recess(rebate)could be made dead on.

With the Azebiki saw(which you can get at The Japan Woodworker or Hida Tool)you could adjust the set to achieve the desired kerf width. You can also file the teeth all the way to the end of the saw.
I would assume one could make their own curved saw plate, out of old plate of the same thickness as the D-8 plate. Just need to make sure it cuts on the pull stroke.