THANKS, Keith (and the mod's of SMC) !

[Neil Brooks]

I've spent a fair bit of time on a few of the other woodworking sites -- sites that are NOT moderated.

The things that go on, there, could make grown people cry.

Between the gratuitous profanity, near-pornographic imagery, and political GARBAGE ... they're nearing uselessness, each and every day.

So ... my thanks to Keith, and the other SMC moderators, for keeping this place USEFUL AND interesting !

Cheers !

[Paul McGaha]

Agreed. We have a great site. Thanks to all that make it happen.

PHM

[Harold Burrell]

Here, here!

(Or is that "Hear, hear!" ???)

[Tom Winship]

Amen to all!

[Brian Elfert]

This is not a complaint about SMC. I liike SMC the way it is.

Personally, I am sick of forums that are moderated to the hilt. The slightest controversy or mention of even the word xxxxxxx* and the thread is locked or simply vanishes. One forum has an off topic sunforum, but it is totally boring as anything remotely interesting is removed right away.

There can be a middle ground between a free for all and a forum moderated to the hilt.

*(Just kidding ;))

[Lance Norris]

SMC is simply the best, most informative, forum there is, in my opinion. Thats why I spend my time here. I once asked a question about my Delta cabinet saw at another popular forum and got 10 immediate responses about how my saw was junk, and not a Unisaw, and that I was a fool for buying it and would never be able to do any serious work with it. Well... I am not a fool, and it is not junk, and thats the last time I posted there. I love it here. Thanks to the moderators.

[Dennis Peacock]

Thanks to all of the members that make SMC what it is. It takes a lot to keep a forum like SMC going smoothly. The moderators appreciate the members that help us by keeping on topic and keeping language clean. This is a family oriented forum after all and my (used to be 13 years old) son is a member here on SMC. He's now 15 and still likes checking in and reading.

It's everything all rolled together that makes it to where parents don't have to worry about their kids being exposed to "stuff" on a woodworking forum. We are here to encourage youngsters to learn about woodworking and experience woodworking.

So....I say....thanks for the kind words but it's also a Thank You to the members at SMC.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I hate to admit it when I agree with Bibs but............:rolleyes:

It's as much the membership as the Moderators. We couldn't do it if you didn't want us to be able to do it.

So....Thank You!

[Karl Card]

Well now it is time for me to open my big mouth....lol

I really like this place too. I have never been afraid to ask what might be considered a "dumb" question. Just because I have a variety of saws, sanders, planers etc does not necessarily mean I know how to use them all...lol

But yes (knock on wood) this is one of the best built forums that I have been on. Must have been built by Ford. lol

[Chris Padilla]

Aw, shucks!!!

[Mike Cruz]

So, it only took two responses to see a naked troll...:rolleyes: So much for moderators...;)

Love this place, glad to be a part of it.

[Phyllis Meyer]

And thanks to the moderators for all their hard work! There is enough garbage out there if you want a heated discussion, I prefer you all where I can read, get advice, comment on everything from food-woodworking-laser engraving-football (Go Packers)-what to give your wife/husband for anniversary gifts...

Phyllis:)

[David Weaver]

I am unfamiliar with off-topic sunforums.

Do we get a drink with a little umbrella if we talk there? Do we need UVA and UVB protection? :D

[Dustin Cranford]

Guess I will bark in also. I will say that from time to time cutting up and having a laugh is good in forums. Laughter is a good healing tool, but I will say and don't let my join date fool you. Beginners like me who don't know much are intimidated by forums. Scared to ask questions for the fear of someone giving an answer that is going to lead to another question and on and on. To be honest I have yet to build anything other than a router table that I would post a pic of to save my life because it's not very good and not finished because frankly I don't know how to finish what needs done on it or if what I did is right to begine with. The other forum you are speaking of there are people there that will eat you alive and some very helpful people from what I have seen. The same is to be said about this one and others as well. Just remember a computer doesn't show emotion or anything like that so what is said may have been jokingly, but the receiver may no read it that way. Okay I will get off my newby platform.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dustin,

I'm sorry if you feel intimidated by anyone here at the Creek.

Be assured that we Moderators try to keep things civil and we never intentionally overlook uncivil behavior.

If you ever feel someone is "eating you alive" here or some other person is being eaten alive don't hesitate to help the Moderators by clicking on the red triangle in the upper right hand corner of the offending post.

That will send a email to all the Mods notify us and we will address the problem.

Uncivil behavior is not allowed or overlooked here intentionally.

[Richard Niemiec]

This is not a complaint about SMC. I liike SMC the way it is.

Personally, I am sick of forums that are moderated to the hilt. The slightest controversy or mention of even the word xxxxxxx* and the thread is locked or simply vanishes. One forum has an off topic sunforum, but it is totally boring as anything remotely interesting is removed right away.

There can be a middle ground between a free for all and a forum moderated to the hilt.

*(Just kidding ;))


Well, a little bit of too many rules, and the slow erosion of access unless you pay, sort of grates on me from time to time. Seems like some folks have another agenda.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, a little bit of too many rules, and the slow erosion of access unless you pay, sort of grates on me from time to time. Seems like some folks have another agenda.

Perhaps but the majority seems to like what we do so that is what we do.

Despite what some folks think, the internet is most certainly not free and SMC has bills to pay, too.

[Glenn Clabo]

Richard...I believe you have expressed this before. I would like to make note of the fact that when Keith was forced to go with ads...SMC grew. When he opened up giveaways to those that give the $ .50 a month suggested...SMC grew. Since opening the Deal and Discounts forum to those that give the $ .50 a month suggested...caused by advertisers complaints of free ads...SMC has grown. There are now almost 11,000 active members! So... Keith's "agenda" of having a woodworking forum for woodworkers and their family does seem to be working.

[Richard Niemiec]

Glenn: Well, sites like this grow from user generated content, ascribing membership growth to advertisers and user fees makes little sense to me; its the membership that shares their knowledge that keeps people coming back, not the ads or their dues. I just think that restricting access to those that share their knowledge and reject fees is counterproductive to generating content. Its all about content, which SMC gets for free. Reasonable men may differ.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Richard,

In the end someone has to pay the bills. If you don't pay the bills, they turn the electricity off and the lights go out.....and so do the servers.

There are still plenty of opportunities to exchange information without contributing.....if you are really concerned about exchanging information.

Nothing is free anywhere on the Internet....nowhere......somebody has to pay the bills.....

[Richard Niemiec]

Aw, c'mon Ken, a little bit of a drive by there .... "if you are really concerned about exchanging information." A review of my posts in the neader forum will show that I've given and shared what I know, likely more than I've taken. So I'll not apologize for my contribution to the forum.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Richard,

This isn't the first time you have taken the time to complain about the different levels of membership here.

Point blank.....nothing is stopping you from gaining information concerning woodworking or any of the related topics from this site without contributing. Nothing.

So why complain?

What one can't do is sell stuff in the Classifieds.....No information there.

Can't post in the "Lumberyard" Forum.....No information there. Just a place to talk that Google can't get infiltrate.

So if information is your real concern......it's there you can give or take....and pay nothing.....

But in the end.....someone has to pay the bills.

[Paul McGaha]

We should get back on topic.

I think the OP meant for this thread to be positive ...

PHM

[Richard Niemiec]

Again, Ken, I'll not apologize for my contributions to the forum, I give as much or more than I get. I'll also not apologize for my patronage of the advertisers in the banner ads; in fact, Rob Lee just picked my pocket about an hour ago, and has repeatedly done so at least 3 times a year for the last 5 years or so. I think I support the Creek and its success.

Conspicuous by its absence in your reply is any reference to the 'deals and discounts' restriction. I can only speculate what the next two or three restrictions will be. Again, reasonable men can differ on the rationale for such actions.

Now, I'll promise never to discuss, er, "complain," about these matters ever again, and save the Creek some bandwidth, as it is obviously a sensitive subject.

[Chris Padilla]

Richard,

No one has asked you for an apology. You are free to discuss these matters and contribute as you wish.

Yes, the D&D forum is another 'paid' or 'subscriber' forum. I'm not sure if/when there will be another such forum. These were all predicated on simply maintaining and running this forum. You seem remiss to recognize that servers cost money, electricity costs money, and updating software and configuring the servers costs money.

Most folks seem to understand this and accept it but there are always those who don't understand and don't accept it. Obviously, those folks are in the minority and one simply can't please all the people all the time.

Ok, I'm done with the subject...sorry that thread has take the turn it has but that is the nature of the beast some times.

[Keith Outten]

All of our woodworking Forums are free and open for everyone to enjoy. It has always been this way and I hope that it never has to change.

Restricting the Classifieds, Deals and Discounts and the FreeStuff Forums doesn't prevent anyone from being a active Member of this Community. It does help us to raise some much needed revenue that we, as a Community, have to collect to pay the bills. Advertising helps but these are difficult times and our advertising revenue is lower than it has been in the past.

If you elect not to pay your monthly Internet bill for your home you will not be able to connect to SawMill Creek. If I cannot pay the monthly Internet bill in my office you will not be able to connect to SawMill Creek. The information that exists here is provided by the Members of this Community and enjoyed by the Members of this Community. If I cannot pay the bills it won't be valuable to anyone.

The annual donation is six dollars, it could be set at 25 dollars and it would still be reasonable. We honestly believe that the lower cost is affordable for more people and by the end of each year we will collect the necessary funds to help pay for our annual costs to run The Creek. We don't enjoy any profit from donations, if we make money running The Creek it is generated from advertising and you can't imagine how many hours we spend marketing.......we earn every penny we receive.

We have been operating SawMill Creek for almost eight years so we have a pretty good track record of serving this Community. We work very hard behind the scenes, the hours we spend each day are significant and the number of services we must support to keep SawMill Creek open for everyone to enjoy has continued to grow through the years. Certainly not the least important is the job of doing the books and paying taxes. The State and Federal Governments expect to receive their share of every dollar collected, PayPal gets their percentage, then our Internet Provider gets their pound of flesh and so on and so on.........whats left over is about 6 bucks per hour that three of us share at the end of the year.

Nobody in their right mind would take a job running a service that runs 24 hours per day 365 days per year for 2 bucks per hour. It is a major deal for Jackie and I to get away from home for just a weekend and it is very rare. For the last eight years I have spent less than 3 weeks away from this console, a little over 2 days per year.

The reward we receive is from people like Neil and thousands of others here who appreciate our dedication and the amount of work it takes to keep the lights on.
.

[Mike Cruz]

Keith, it is sad you need (or feel you need) to explain yourself. An inciteful and wonderful explanation none the less. Thanks for making it all possible. $6 is a pittance that anyone who is here regularly really ought to contribute. I've visited sites before that ask for a donation if I found the knowledge that I found on their site useful. Honestly, I didn't contribute. I don't frequent the site enough for me to justify it. But when I see people with hundreds, or thousands of posts with member (not contributor) status, I scratch my head. Hey, it is their choice. They don't have to. I don't hold it against anyone that doesn't contribute, but I just scratch my head.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

As Moderators, we don't really care about someones level of membership UNLESS they try to slide an advertisement by us. We may not catch all these attempts but we get a good number of them.

It really doesn't matter to us.

Richard is right. The information exchanged, the size of the membership and the amount of Internet traffic is the value of SMC.

Let's not chastise someone for not feeling obligated to pay to the higher level of membership.

At the same time, I don't feel those who don't pay should complain because those who do pay to the higher level of membership have a few extra privileges.

Let's get back to the shops.