Killed my RAS with compressed air!

[Mark Ashmeade]

I decided to change my RAS (RIDGID RS 1000) over to 220V, and while I had the cover off to flip the switch, I blew it out with compressed air. When I put it back together, all was not well. There's a low frequency vibration, and it gets warm quite quickly. When it's up to speed (which takes longer than before), it sounds like a tablesaw with a slack belt, a rhythmic slow vibration. Previously it had been smooth as glass. I tried a cut, and it bogged in 3/4 ply after about 4 inches.

I took both halves of the motor cover off, and tried again to blow it out. I put it back to 110, still the same, proving it wasn't the 220V changeover. Taking it apart again, I dismantled the centrifugal switch, although that didn't seem to be the issue, it does spin up to full speed, though it bogs easily.

The motor seems to be binding a little, I think what's probably happened is one of the bearings has moved ever so slightly off true. I can't imagine how compressed air has done that, but that's the only thing I did of a mechanical nature to it. When I stand in front of the blade, and look dead-on at it, as the motor spins down, I can see the blade flutter. This seems to give evidence to my supposition that a bearing is off.

No parts are available, according to RIDGID.

Anyone know the equivalent Craftsman model to the RS1000? My thoughts are to buy a used one, and rehome the motor. And be very gentle when cleaning it!

[Don Jarvie]

Something tells me when you put it back together everything didn't line up. Can you take the motor off the yoke? If so, it will allow you to line everything up.

The bearings didn't move unless you tried to move them. Most likely the shaft isn't set in the end bells correct so the centrifical switch isn't set right.

Also, before you power it up, 110 or 220, make sure it's wired correctly for either on.

You may need to fool wih it a bit but it will work again.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure I could take the motor off, but I'm not sure what the idea is? I didn't do anything mechanical to it, just undid a plastic cover, moved a slider switch (there's no wiring to be done), and blew it out. It runs fine, but is a second or two slower to engage the centrifugal switch, and then spins up to full speed, but doesn't have enough power to cut 3/4 ply with a spanking new Freud blade.

I was thinking of trying to get the fan and centrifugal mechanism completely off, but it has about 6 or 7 plastic dogs that engage in a detent in the motor shaft that need to be simultaneously released, and that's foxing me how to do.

[Don Jarvie]

DId you rewire the plug on the saw and the outlet? If its bogging down that may be the culprit. Your only drawing power from 1 leg (110).

If you flip the switch bacl to 110 is it ok?

[Mark Ashmeade]

I did rewire the plug, and used a 220 receptacle. I don't think it would work at all if there was no return path.

Anyway, game has moved on, I followed your earlier suggestion, and have a large box of bits where a RAS motor used to be. I'm trying to get the armature out, and it's nearly there. Either the fixed arbor nut or the fan assy has to come off, and we should be good. At least I will be able to tell if there's any mechanical shenanigans at that point.

[Lee Schierer]

Hmmm a humming noise at start up. Sounds like the rotor is too close to the stator on one side or a piece of debris is caught in the winding and rubbing on the rotor. Alignment of the stator to the rotor is critical in those types of motors.

[Walt Nicholson]

What Don said. If something goes wrong, retrace your steps and check everything that you did. You said you rewired the outlet. Plug another motor that you know works correctly into the outlet and verify that the outlet is not the culprit. Incorrect wiring can make some things run but not how they are supposed to run.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Hmmm a humming noise at start up. Sounds like the rotor is too close to the stator on one side or a piece of debris is caught in the winding and rubbing on the rotor. Alignment of the stator to the rotor is critical in those types of motors.

That's my thoughts right now. I did get the arbor nut off, but it seems the bearing at that end is mounted in the end cap. I don't think I will be able to get it off, as I don't have a bearing puller (if that's even what is required). however, I can now move the rotor maybe 3/4 in and out of the stator.

I think the next step is to try and get it back together and run up, but when I tried that, it doesn't run at all. I think that's because the rotor is probably touching the sides in places.

Is there a procedure for centering the rotor within the stator? I was thinking of using thin plastic strips to separate the rotor from the stator while I tighten the bolts holding the endcaps on. The clearance can't be more than 1/32. Since the bearing appears to be in the endcap, this must be super critical.

I did the math on taking it to a motor shop, at $100-$200 minimum, the amount I'd have in the saw then would be getting close to the cost of a new Craftsman, which is very similar to the RIDGID.

On the wiring, I plugged my 220V belt sander into the socket, and all is well. I checked the input to the motor with a multimeter, and all is well there too.

[Lee Schierer]

Is there a procedure for centering the rotor within the stator? I was thinking of using thin plastic strips to separate the rotor from the stator while I tighten the bolts holding the endcaps on. The clearance can't be more than 1/32. Since the bearing appears to be in the endcap, this must be super critical.

I don't know how they do this in production, but they make plastic shim stock of various thicknesses in sheets that are about 1 x 17. You could cut strips from shim stock to perfectly center the rotor in the stator while you tighten the bolts.

I don't think you need to pull the bearings, just get the motor end caps on and tight with the rotor centered.

[Don Jarvie]

Take a good look at that switch and see if it is fully engaged. It may have a loose connection in it and as you are moving it back and forth it's not fully engaging.

If this is all you did then something is up with the switch.

If you can post a few pictures it would help.

Don

[Mark Ashmeade]

Well I managed to get the thing apart, and found nothing untoward. I put it back together, and the rotor was spinning freely. When I reconnected it, it just sat there dead, no humming, no nothing.

I put it back to 110, and then it hummed, but nothing else. I assumed it was the start windings or capacitor, and spun it by hand, and it did run, but slowly. After 5 seconds, the dreaded white smoke came out. I tested the capacitor, it seems OK, so that leaves me with the windings. It's probably tostada, and to be honest, I have spent several hundred dollars of my time on the thing by now, if I were charging.

There's the equivalent model Craftsman on CL here for $165, and I will cut my losses, and go get that. I may even be able to talk them down a bit. The RIDGID is in excellent pre-event condition, so I will probably put the motor on the RIDGID. If the C-man is even better, then I'll keep it as is. The annoying thing is, as I dismantled the saw, I was actually quite impressed with its construction. All thickly cast alloy on the arm, I had expected steel. The steel's only for the top cover. At least I'll have a source of parts!

Thanks to all who helped, time to draw a line under this and go get a well deserved beer.

[Randall Clark]

Are you holding your mouth right?

[Don Alexander]

curiosity finally got the best of me so i will ask what seems an obvious question ............ why would you mess with a perfectly functioning saw in the first place? especially when there isn't much (if any ) advantage to 220v as opposed to 110v

JUST curious , not trying to be critical or start anything :)

[Mark Ashmeade]

curiosity finally got the best of me so i will ask what seems an obvious question ............ why would you mess with a perfectly functioning saw in the first place? especially when there isn't much (if any ) advantage to 220v as opposed to 110v

JUST curious , not trying to be critical or start anything :)

A question I am asking myself as we speak. However, the answer is, I didn't have 220V where it was, and moved it to gain some space. On moving it, there was a free 220V receptacle, and just a single 110.

In general, my experience has been that if I can run a tool on 220, it will perform better than 110. I only ever run one tool at a time, so at 220, it will have exclusive use of the circuit. However, on 110, it will share with battery chargers and the like. I much prefer to use 220 if I can, but the RAS didn't have an available receptacle where it was. Once I moved it, the option was there.

What I learned from this: with a used tool, if it's working, don't mess with it. If it was new, I would be banging the warranty drum.

[Richard Dragin]

In general, my experience has been that if I can run a tool on 220, it will perform better than 110.

Oh boy, here we go.

Do yourself a favor and take this opportunity to get a Dewalt instead.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Oh boy, here we go.

Do yourself a favor and take this opportunity to get a Dewalt instead.

Oh boy, here we go with what?

I understand the accepted wisdom is that 35 year old (1970s and earlier) DeWalts are the business, but my experience with used tools isn't great. Other than the motor I screwed, this machine was par excellence. It was well made, sufficiently powerful, and above all, accurate.

There's no wear at all on it, it glides beautifully, no rust etc. It needs a motor, and there's a cheap source of those (albeit used). For what I use the saw for, I'm reluctant to invest in a 35 year old beast that will likely have a lot of wear. I'm open to suggestions, but the thought of regrinding bearing ways and the like turns my attention elsewhere.

[Richard Dragin]

The old 110 v.s. 220 debate.

And worn bearing ways are the for sure deal breaker but unless it was in a commercial setting it is rare. I'd just hate to see someone throw money at an old Craftsman.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Oh boy, here we go with what?

I understand the accepted wisdom is that 35 year old (1970s and earlier) DeWalts are the business, but my experience with used tools isn't great. Other than the motor I screwed, this machine was par excellence. It was well made, sufficiently powerful, and above all, accurate.

There's no wear at all on it, it glides beautifully, no rust etc. It needs a motor, and there's a cheap source of those (albeit used). For what I use the saw for, I'm reluctant to invest in a 35 year old beast that will likely have a lot of wear. I'm open to suggestions, but the thought of regrinding bearing ways and the like turns my attention elsewhere.So what if it is used, so is your saw.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Indeed so.

[Joseph Tarantino]

In general, my experience has been that if I can run a tool on 220, it will perform better than 110.

the bad news is that, according to page 42 of the owners manual,

http://www.ridgid.com/ASSETS/DD660EB7AC8D4160928DEE2D4AD47475/RS1000_Radial_Arm_Saw_Man.pdf

the unit's power rating is the same at 220v as it is at 110v.

[george wilson]

I believe that motors do run better at 220,but I do not think that is what is wrong with your saw if it ran well,and was powerful before you shot air into it. I never use compressed air to clean machines.Especially my metal lathes and milling machines. There is too much opportunity to blow chips and other crud into the sliding parts. Plus,it gets blown everywhere. I wipe them off,and use a vacuum.

[Chip Lindley]

In general, my experience has been that if I can run a tool on 220, it will perform better than 110.

What I learned from this: with a used tool, if it's working, don't mess with it. If it was new, I would be banging the warranty drum.

Yep, Mark, if it ain't broke, don't FIX IT! But, switching a motor over to 220v should not fall under that category. Especially when there is a simple switch inside to do the job. The switch may have failed in some way though. Flipping it may have moved something, somehow, somewhere, that caused your woes. Tough Luck for sure!

[Don Alexander]

Mark;

i certainly understand and thanks for satisfying my curiosity

i'm sorry you are having trouble with it and hope you either are able to fix it or replace with something you like as well

been in your shoes a time or 3 :eek: i.e. screwed something up when i was trying to make it just a bit better or different :D
makes ya think mean things about yourself for a minute or so then if you are like me you will eventually forget about it and remind yourself by doing it again with something else :o

keeps life interesting anyway :D

[Mark Ashmeade]

Just to wrap this up, some comments on the 220 vs 110 (or more correctly 240 vs 120) debate.

It's a no brainer to me. Mr Ohm gave us the idea that V=IR and expanding that gives us P=IV. At first glance, a 2250W saw should perform the same at 240V or 120V, as it will develop the same power. However, another derivation from Mr Ohm is P=I^2R. Thus if you double the voltage, thus halving the current, you gain from a much lower I^2R loss in the wiring (ie voltage drop). This isn't too much of a concern to me, as the runs are short, but is certainly a consideration with extension cords.

Also, the saw can draw perhaps slightly more than its rated current for a brief period if it hits a knot or something hard in the wood, without tripping the breaker. I used to find my tablesaw would trip easily in moderately hard conditions. Having gone to the effort of putting 240V in, I have never had this happen again. Almost certainly it is because the saw now has exclusivity on the circuit, rather than a gain from the higher voltage, but it has a 20A breaker now too. I'd rather pop the thermal overload on the saw than the breaker. The thermal thing tells me it's worked as hard as it can. The breaker tells me the supply is insufficient.

One last thought. If you bought a tool that was wired for 240, and you had 240 available where you wanted to use it, is there any reason at all to change it to 120V? I think the answer is "hell no", as the advantages, while minimal, are all on the side of the higher voltage.

Occasionally people talk of "lower electric bills" or "more horsepower". This is snake oil, but the minimal advantages that are present are worth doing to me. I certainly didn't change my new bandsaw to 120, it came as 240!

[Richard Dragin]

Just to wrap this up...........

You will never wrap this up on a woodworking forum, trust me. The problem (as I see it) is people confuse wire physics with motor physics which is what you are doing also.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Both are involved, and yes, I am well aware of motor physics, and the fact that it's a complex impedance, not a plain resistance. However, I stand by my arguments in their simple form. They work for me, and I've seen a real benefit of the changeover.

You may well be right about never reaching agreement though.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mark,

It's been over 40 years since I studied ac motors and theory.

I agree with your analysis with one additional comment or idea. IIRC there is an argument that if wired for 220/230/240...what ever you want to use as a reference.....when spinning up to speed, because of the higher applied voltage, the motor will spin up faster in a given amount of time. If that is correct..and it's vague in my mind, then it would cause a motor to appear to recover faster in the event of a stall or spin up faster when first turned on.

Other than that little caveat....I agree......watts is watts....there is no gain in power or savings in electrical bills.

[Chip Lindley]

The physics and the formulas prove that there theoretically should be no difference in performance of the same motor run on 115v or 230v.

But....

There are practical considerations which make 230v advantageous at times. All are not blessed with the optimum. A 15A 115v circuit may be shared with other draws. My old Rockwell 15A contractor saw continually tripped the breaker on 115v. That circuit also supported ceiling lights, other wall outlets, and a yard light. The 15A saw did not do well when asked to perform to it's max. Switching to 230v solved my problem and made a problematic machine a pleasure to use! All the difference of night and day!

If one goes to the trouble to install a dedicated 20A or 30A 115V circuit with proper everything, they might as well install a 30A 230v circuit, and expand their capacity up to 5 Hp!

[Don Jarvie]

One more try.

Can you access the wires leading to the 110/220 switch without having to take the motor apart?

See if you can figure out if you can wire the motor direct to 220 and by pass the switch. The motor will run since both leads are hot it will just be sluggish but run.

Maybe you didn't fry the motor and just the switch.

If you get nothing then look toward CList and get an old Delta or Dewalt.

Good luck