any plumbers on here

[lawrence dosson]

I am helping my son remodel a kitchen we are replacing some supply taps on the copper water lines [ older house im asuming lead solder ]
my question will the new no lead solder mix with the old lead solder or do we need to clean all the old lead solder of the joint ? im thinking just heat the old supply taps off set on the new and resolder with the no lead solder is that ok? thanks lawrence

[Lee Koepke]

not a plumber .. but just in case nobody answers, my general opinion would be to sand/file off any old residue. I wouldnt think its a matter to compatibility but to get a good seal.

[Charlie Reals]

Clean the old joint of all residue and resolder it. I just finished running a bunch of copper and did the same to some old fittings. It's fine.

[Mike Cutler]

Technically speaking, no, you would cut the pipe back and start again. However, household plumbing is very low pressure, and if you are installing a new stop you should have more than enough surface area, and enough imperfection in the surfaces, to achieve a good joint. Once the two solders are heated to the plastic region the remaininglead will flow and you'll achieve "Solidus" ( Not a Byzantine coin). The bigger issue isn't actually the lead component, but is the antimony materials in both solders.
One more option is that "Shark-Bite" now has straight and 90 degree quick stops that require no soldering,and are code compliant in most places. Very nice for future replacement should a stop leak by.
I installed the Shark-Bites. I'm lazy.:D

[Dan Hintz]

Mike,

My father introduced me to the Shark Bite units just a few days ago... the "technology" looks really slick, and he has installed a few already without any issues (though to be fair issues can often show up years down the road).

[Jacob Mac]

I had a plumbing project two weeks ago soldering copper pipes. For the life of me, I could not get the last little piece to solder properly. Finally, I went down to HD and dropped $16 on two shark bites. I hated spending the money, but I loved finishing the project. They sure are easy to use.

To answer the OP's question, I removed all of the residue on the old pipes. But the piece that was giving me fits was brand new. Just to be safe, I would clean them. It is a lot easier to do this the first time around rather than a few weeks later if a leak shows up.

[Mike Cutler]

Mike,

My father introduced me to the Shark Bite units just a few days ago... the "technology" looks really slick, and he has installed a few already without any issues (though to be fair issues can often show up years down the road).

Dan

I won't install one inside a wall, but I've installed a few of them in readily accessible areas.
I know they can take 120psi, because I leak tested all of my joints and fittings at 120psi. I figure 200+ % of system pressure is good enough.;)
The technology really isn't that new. It just took a while for it to hit the consumer market level.

[Dan Hintz]

He used the flexible pipe w/connectors for the water heater. At first he thought one was leaking a very small amount, but as he traced it back it was the drain pipe... in all of his pipe shifting, he discovered they never sweated the drain pipe on the last elbow going out of the wall.

[Charlie Reals]

Dan

I won't install one inside a wall, but I've installed a few of them in readily accessible areas.
I know they can take 120psi, because I leak tested all of my joints and fittings at 120psi. I figure 200+ % of system pressure is good enough.;)
The technology really isn't that new. It just took a while for it to hit the consumer market level.

+1 to that. We were using the same type system when plastic became standard to the utility gas company's.
We were the ones to work the bugs out of this stuff. I will stay with the sweated copper at half the price.
There is just something about watching the solder flow. :D

It's almost as good as watching a good gas welder do pipe. I worked with some of the best back then and never got tired of watching them.

[Dan Hintz]

Well, if anyone would like to show me a fast and reliable way to sweat brass to copper, I would be eternally grateful. I've been soldering electronics since I was 8, so sweating copper/copper was a breeze... but copper/brass continues to elude me.

Granted, I've been trying to do it with a standard propane torch, and as I understand it a MAPP torch is the proper way to go when it comes to brass. If you guys tell me the MAPP is most likely the only thing holding me back, I'll pick one up next time I'm at the BORG.

[del schisler]

I am helping my son remodel a kitchen we are replacing some supply taps on the copper water lines [ older house im asuming lead solder ]
my question will the new no lead solder mix with the old lead solder or do we need to clean all the old lead solder of the joint ? im thinking just heat the old supply taps off set on the new and resolder with the no lead solder is that ok? thanks lawrence

Why solder ? Use the new compresion stop valves. Just cut off and put on tighten up and done. Or their are the shark bite stop valves. All you do is slip them on and they will not leak. Take no time at all. Now with soldering you need to watch and not catch the wall on fire. If insulation in the wall be careful. I would go with shark bite stop valves. like i said slip on and you are done.

[Mike Cutler]

Well, if anyone would like to show me a fast and reliable way to sweat brass to copper, I would be eternally grateful. I've been soldering electronics since I was 8, so sweating copper/copper was a breeze... but copper/brass continues to elude me.

Granted, I've been trying to do it with a standard propane torch, and as I understand it a MAPP torch is the proper way to go when it comes to brass. If you guys tell me the MAPP is most likely the only thing holding me back, I'll pick one up next time I'm at the BORG.


Dan
The torch is holding you back. Copper to brass can be done with Propane, but it takes additional time to prehest the brass body, and the copper fitting pipe introduced after the brass is heated to stop the copper from heating up too much and the solder not flowing properly .
With MAPP gas the job goes much quicker. You still have to remove the soft components from the brass valve body, and take out the stem/plug to reduce the mass that need to be heated. Clean the brass body really well also to remove all machining oils.

Once you use MAPP for asweating copper, you'll throw away the torch adapter for the propane tank.;)

[Terry Achey]

I am helping my son remodel a kitchen we are replacing some supply taps on the copper water lines [ older house im asuming lead solder ]
my question will the new no lead solder mix with the old lead solder or do we need to clean all the old lead solder of the joint ? im thinking just heat the old supply taps off set on the new and resolder with the no lead solder is that ok? thanks lawrence

yes" that will work fine.

[Steve Griffin]

Why solder ? Use the new compresion stop valves. Just cut off and put on tighten up and done. Or their are the shark bite stop valves. All you do is slip them on and they will not leak. Take no time at all. Now with soldering you need to watch and not catch the wall on fire. If insulation in the wall be careful. I would go with shark bite stop valves. like i said slip on and you are done.

+1 !

I had my doubts about these. But yesterday used them for a new vanity and toilet and I had to giggle it was so silly easy.

-Steve

[Prashun Patel]

If you want to solder for the heck of it (there's no greater feeling than sweating a joint properly, IMHO), then it's not the existing solder (leaded or otherwise that'll hurt you. It's dirt and oxidation.

The right way is to cut back the joint PAST the existing solder, then to scour it with emery cloth, then use a good paste flux.

If you can't cut back, then heat the joint until the solder melts, then wipe it quickly with a rag to pull most of it off and the rest of it smooth. Then scour and flux it. Those pipe cleaners with the brass bristled ends are good too for cleaning. ALWYAS FLUX.

Sweat the joint - not the solder.

Sharkbites are great, though, if you wanna do it the easy way. Retro-ing supply lines can be tight to solder. Make sure they're code in yr area.

Dan, I've sweated copper to brass with propane, but it takes a while to heat the brass properly. MAPP is the quicker way. However, make sure you remove gaskets and plastic parts and insulate the upstream with a wet cloth so you don't damage anything.

[Dan Hintz]

Yeah, I always remove gaskets when I can, but some valves don't allow for it. I'm trying to replace all gate valves will ball valves as I remodel... why can't someone make a copper ball valve...

[Curt Harms]

I did some copper sweating a few years ago and had a devil of a time, especially with larger fittings. My torch at the time was sort of a pencil tip. I recently got a new self starting torch with a larger hotter head. It made a huge difference in the quality of the sweated joints, especially larger fittings like valves. I will second shark bites, especially if you have a joint where you just cannot get it to stop drip--drip--dripping. There's a bonus function for the self starting torch. It works great for starting lump charcoal grills. :D

Dan
The torch is holding you back. Copper to brass can be done with Propane, but it takes additional time to prehest the brass body, and the copper fitting pipe introduced after the brass is heated to stop the copper from heating up too much and the solder not flowing properly .
With MAPP gas the job goes much quicker. You still have to remove the soft components from the brass valve body, and take out the stem/plug to reduce the mass that need to be heated. Clean the brass body really well also to remove all machining oils.

Once you use MAPP for asweating copper, you'll throw away the torch adapter for the propane tank.;)