Hide Glue quick enough for Joinery (box and dovetail joints)?

[Nick Sorenson]

I'm curious to the hide glue users here, do you find that it's quick enough for joints (box and dovetails)?

Seems like the working time (cooling of the glue) would be too fast for realistically applying the glue through the fingers/dovetails and executing the joint.

Curious if/how some have worked around this problem.

[Jamie Ray]

Just some of the techniques I've heard of:

Preheat the wood before application of the glue or use a heat lamp while assembling (glue stays warmer longer, slowing the gel time)

Add salt (about 3% by weight), urea (about 15% by weight, this is what gives us Titebond's cold liquid hide glue), or vinegar (5% by weight) to slow the gel time

Add extra water to the hide glue mixture or wet the joints before glue up

Use a spoon to drizzle it on the joint before spreading with a brush

Use Titebond's cold liquid hide glue (it does have less strength than hot glue because of the urea, but it's still plenty tough)

Use a lower gram glue: like 135 instead of the normal 192 but don't go below 135. It's not as tough as 192 but remember dovetail and finger joints are already mechanically strong.

That said, I use the spoon trick and have never had a problem, even on large glue ups. I do however do a dry run first, including setting my clamps to the right size.

Jamie

[John Coloccia]

For a larger glue up, it's typical to pre-coat the joints, and then just put a quick layer of warm glue on everything to "reactivate" it. Warm water would even work. For laminations, a hot iron works. It's just not convenient to use water when you have a pot of hot hide glue sitting right there.

On stringed instruments like violins and cellos, it's not all that unusual for a top to pop off in a corner, or something like that. As a repair, you can simply put some warm water in the joint and clamp it sometimes.

The key to any of this stuff is to have all your equipment, and your clamping scheme, ready before you start.

A better question is why you want to use hide glue for this kind of work when there are far simpler glues on the market? Titebond is far easier to use.

The bottom line, though, is that you'll have to work quickly. There's no getting around that. One advantage to the hide glue is that you don't have to go nuts with clamps. It shrinks as it dries and pulls the joint tight. It's more important to get the alignment correct. With glues like Titebond, you really need to concentrate on good clamping, and that can be a real challenge sometimes with everything slipping and sliding around.

Anyhow, that's just my opinion.