Bowl Gouge Technique

[Prashun Patel]

I've scoured this forum, YouTube, FWW, and Google.

Does anyone know of a good pictoral shot of how to properly hold a bowl gouge when hollowing the inside of a bowl?

I'm having probs getting smooth action on the inside. Specifically, I tend to gouge the area closest to the rim of the bowl - especially if the edge of the bowl has any vertical depth to it; that is, if the hollow is 'deep' around the edges.

I'm having trouble understanding how much to roll and lift the gouge. On the 4 bowls I've made so far, I've ended up cheating and using a very small 'micro' gouge which is very easy to control.

[Sean Hughto]

There is no such thing as "cheating."

What sort of grind do you have on your gouge? I've always ever used a variation of the Irish/Ellsworth grind. Those swept back wings make it easy to work the rim area in my experience. I'm sure someone else will direct you to a picture, but if not, I'll try to take one of what I do and link to it. My way may not be textbook, but it works fine for me.

[Tony Greenway]

Prashun, here is a video that I sent a friend who is new to turning. I can't seem to upload the link now, but go to youtube and search for nostalgia 75, then look for 'Turning a cherry log into a bowl, part 4'. This should help.

[David DeCristoforo]

There's a bunch of video clips on YouTube that you can watch. There's nothing like seeing it done "live" but not everyone has access to a master turner who has the time and incentive to show people how to do it.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks Guys. That link was great, Tony.

I'm convinced my problem is that I'm not sharpening my gouge properly. I think I'm having better luck with the micro only because it's tiny surface is easier to sharpen. I'm embarassed to say that I'm sharpening these tools free-hand until I wait for my grinder jig to arrive. (I've gone with the Veritas).

[Kim Ford]

Prashan;

I am a little old school, but when I got into this about 18 years ago all I had was Richard Raffan book on turning bowls. It shows in very clear detail with many pictures how to hollow out the insde of a bowl along with many other techniques.

The long grinds were not being used at that time, but regardless of the grind the presentation of the cutting surface to the wood is the same. The grind may give you an advantage as to what you can access but the wood always cuts the same if the presentation is correct.

You know you are cutting correctly by the shavings you produce. I always suggest to a new turner to get some soft wood, fir or pine from the lumber yard, scrap 4x8 or so, and practice on these. They are dry, cheap, and when you can make decent cuts that are not all torn up you are starting to understand tool presentation.

Just my thoughts.

Kim

[Harvey Schneider]

I thought the Lyle Jameson video on "bowl turning the easy way" was really excellent at teaching tool technique. The images of tool contact with wood were the clearest I have seen, and he presents instruction in a clear and unambiguous way.
I highly recommend it.

[Allen Neighbors]

Prashun, I haven't watched any videos on bowl turning except Bill Grumbine's and Mike Mahoney's. I don't know if I can explain what I've learned (not much, because I'm dense as coal), but I'll give it a try.
When I'm trying to hollow the inside of a bowl, I like to use a bowl gouge as far as I can. I drill a hole into the center, to the depth that I want the bowl. Then I begin to take the wood out working from the center outward towards the rim.
If you place the cutting edge bevel against the spinning wood, with the flute pointed about 3 o'clock, you won't be cutting... just the bevel will be rubbing the wood.
If you then swing the handle away from you ever so slightly, and at the same time, rotate the gouge to the right ever so slightly, the cutting edge will begin to shave the wood just a little. Continue the same movements and the cutting edge will increase the size of the cutting.
I then "follow the bevel" and push the gouge "into" the bowl. As you get to the transition area, near the bottom, you'll have to swing (pull) the handle toward you to go "around the corner". I keep repeating the same thing, and when I get it to the right thickness, my final cut can be made from the rim to the bottom. This will work, only if you are making the thickness around 1/4-3/8"... and not trying to go too thin.
That's rather simplistic, but that's basically it. It works for me. You just have to be careful not to try to cut on the rim, once you take away the "beef" that supports the cut, if you are going really thin. Because the bowl will flex, vibrate, and cause a shattering catch. If you're going really thin, just cut about an inch depth at a time... finishing as you go.

[Cody Colston]

Prashun,

Two things made a step-change in my ability when I first started turning. One was the Oneway Wolverine jig...there's just no substitute for sharp tools. The other was the Bill Grumbine video "Turning Bowls Made Easy."

Bill specifically demonstrates how to correctly hollow the inside of a bowl with close-up shots and clear, concise instructions. I watched several different woodturning videos when I was starting out and none of them helped much until I watched Bill's. The light came on then.

I've already passed my copy on to others or I would send it to you.

BTW, you are such an accomplished flat-work craftsman. You do realize that you will soon be leaving your TS to gather dust or become a storage table for bowl blanks, don't you? :D

[Prashun Patel]

BTW, you are such an accomplished flat-work craftsman. You do realize that you will soon be leaving your TS to gather dust or become a storage table for bowl blanks, don't you? :D

I have the Grumbine video. I will watch it a few more times.

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm FAR from accomplished. Most of the work posted here will provide aspiration for a good couple decades to come.

I gotta say, I LOVE the spinny side. It's so organic. You get to focus on form and fluidity instead of messy stuff like glue and joints. Also, it's really opening my eyes on 'scraps'; seems like everything can be 'turned' into something - even logs.

What I'm saving in wood, though, seems to be likely eaten up in tools and supplies.

[Ken Whitney]

After watching both of his videos many times I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days with Bill Grumbine a few years ago. The videos are nowhere near as good as Bill in person, but they are a close second. You have to watch the videos multiple times because there are quite a few bits that you simply miss the first few times around.

I also learned quite a bit from David Ellsworth and Mike Mahoney videos. I had quite a few "Oh yeah!" moments watching and then trying the methods they demonstrate. Nothing beats making a bunch of shavings, though.

Good luck.

[Prashun Patel]

The inside lip of bowls continues to stymie me. I've seen a million videos and have thought about this so much, other drivers must think me mad as I practice my movement in the car in a bizarre tai-chi pantomime.

I can't help catching the gouge on the front of the inside lip. I really don't think it's my touch or tool sharpness.

Could it be that small bowls are very hard to turn on the inside? With such a small inside radius, it's hard to position the tool rest properly.

Could it be that the 45 degree bevel I have on my gouge is too steep? Should I be using a 50-60deg grind on the bevel?

[Sean Hughto]

You need to get with a turner who can see what you are doing and show you what he or she does. It shouldn't be this hard. Something is amiss.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

[QUOTE=Prashun Patel;1519169]
I can't help catching the gouge on the front of the inside lip. I really don't think it's my touch or tool sharpness.
QUOTE]

David Marks has videos on DIY network. He has a video that showed a little trick for that. Take your parting tool, and create a rabbet on the front of the bowl, that will keep your gouge from skating off the edge. I would imagine that a skew in scraper mode would work equally as well, but that's what he did. Works.

[Bob Hamilton]

It may be that the bevel angle is not helping. What size gouge are you using? The length of the bevel from the cutting edge to the heel will be quite a bit longer at a 45 degree grind than a 60 degree grind, and that will make it difficult to negotiate tight curves without the heel of the bevel bruising the wood. The tighter the curve you are cutting the shorter the bevel you want. Changing to a steeper grind or using a smaller gouge should allow tighter curves. Grinding back the heel will also shorten the bevel.

That really should not have any impact at the rim, however, since at the moment of entry the bevel is not in contact with the wood. On most inside cuts the gouge is held pretty much horizontal and just swung and rolled to present the part of the edge you want to the wood.

Good Luck!
Bob

[Jake Helmboldt]

The inside lip of bowls continues to stymie me. I've seen a million videos and have thought about this so much, other drivers must think me mad as I practice my movement in the car in a bizarre tai-chi pantomime.

I can't help catching the gouge on the front of the inside lip. I really don't think it's my touch or tool sharpness.

Could it be that small bowls are very hard to turn on the inside? With such a small inside radius, it's hard to position the tool rest properly.

Could it be that the 45 degree bevel I have on my gouge is too steep? Should I be using a 50-60deg grind on the bevel?

Prashun, do you have the gouge rolled over on its side so the flute is facing the blank/insdie of the bowl? Secondly, use the bevel to aim the entry; i.e. imagine a line coming off the bevel and into the wood. It has to be "aiming" in the direction you want to form the cut, or even a little inward of there, otherwise you often end up with the gouge skating across and backing up over the rim.

I would suggest another video; Richard Raffan's Turning Wood. It covers bowls, spindles, end grain, and he shows some specific examples of problems such as cutting the rim. I think it is a super video and covers almost everything in nice detail.

[Prashun Patel]

I think I was trying to come in too steep from the lip, attempting to make the sides too 'vertical'. By keeping the angle shallow, I was able to get it smooth.

I will experiment with steepening up the bevel too.

Pix are unfinished.