New Lie Nielsen no. 51!!! Exciting stuff!!!

[Rick Markham]

Anyone notice the new Lie Nielsen No. 51 Shoot board plane. Kinda pricey, but it says they will be coming out with a shooting board in the future for it. I kinda fancy it, I have always been on the lookout for the old stanley 51 and 52 shooting board. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-51

I woke up to the email that announced it's presence. Glad to see some new goodies in the works!

[Andrew Gibson]

Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.

[george wilson]

Wonder if the shooting board will be another $500.00?

[David Weaver]

Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.

Costs a lot to make them and run a business.

I wonder what stanley's price was, and what that amount was as a percentage of the average wage (which would be one way to judge how much man-productivity it took to make one)

I think they'll sell these, especially once they come up with the pair, because you can't get them used for cheap, even if you can find them, and because it's a tool that works well.

I'll never have one, though - can't justify $1,000 to shoot the ends of small boards.

[Bruce Page]

Wonder if the shooting board will be another $500.00?

There’s actually a lot going on with the #52 shooting board. If they clone the #52 to Lie Nielsen standards, I bet it will.

[Andrew Gibson]

Costs a lot to make them and run a business.

I wonder what stanley's price was, and what that amount was as a percentage of the average wage (which would be one way to judge how much man-productivity it took to make one)

I think they'll sell these, especially once they come up with the pair, because you can't get them used for cheap, even if you can find them, and because it's a tool that works well.

I'll never have one, though - can't justify $1,000 to shoot the ends of small boards.

I know they are very expensive to make. LN is making IMO the Highest quality production tools in history. I just wish I had more money to spend on these tools, but we are all in that boat for the most part.

[David Keller NC]

Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.

The original with the right plane, blade, hold-downs and parts will run you around $1500 at a major tool auction in good condition. Somewhat less than good but still with all the right parts will run you around $1100. My guess in Lie-Nielsen's case is that the plane bed was very costly to cast, and very costly to machine. The sole/sidewall has to be ground darn near perfectly at 90 degrees. That in itself isn't cake, but each surface must also be flat and at 90 degrees to the other one throughout the length of the plane. Moreover, the bed attachment for the frog also has to be very accurately machined, and the mouth has to be cut so that the blade when mounted to the frog is parallel with it. I'm betting that took some pretty fancy tooling, set-ups and a very costly CNC machine to do it at production speeds/volumes.

But... you can do a very nice job of planing end-grain with a standard #5 and a shop-made bench hook and at a far cheaper price. If you work extremely hard woods, then a low-angle bevel-up jack plane would be in order, but that's still a lot cheaper than a #51 shooting plane and iron shooting board.

[Rick Markham]

Costs a lot to make them and run a business.

I wonder what stanley's price was, and what that amount was as a percentage of the average wage (which would be one way to judge how much man-productivity it took to make one) It appears the average yearly income in 1915 was $687.

"In 1915, when a #4 Bailey bench plane cost $2.20 or a complete #45 $7.00 the #52 cost $10.00." Garret Hack, pg 144 The Handplane Book

Yes $500 is steep for my tastes, I am interested to see what the set costs. In any shape or form it's going to be a bit out of my price range for a shooting plane. I will admit that I can't help but be fascinated all the same.

[Rick Markham]

David is right, the original 52 and shooting board are fairly rare, they weren't made for very long, and highly sought after by collectors. By comparison the Lie Nielsen is a virtual bargain. Seeing as the original can quickly extend to 3X the price of an average sliding compound miter saw. It's frightening to think you could get a Festool Kapex and still have money left over for wood to cut all weekend long in your pocket. One day (yeah right) I will find one at a garage sale for $.50 because no one knows what grandpa had... probably more likely to find the Kapex for $.50 at a garage sale LOL

[David Keller NC]

It's frightening to think you could get a Festool Kapex and still have money left over for wood to cut all weekend long in your pocket.

One thing to remember is that a #51/52 doesn't do the same thing as a sliding compound miter. As far as I know, there is no power tool equivalent to a miter shooting board, though a manual version of a powered miter saw is available as a "miter box". These are pretty inexpensive - even a complete one with a Disston saw can be had for less than $300, and usually for a lot less than that unless it's a Langdon with the pretty pinstriping.

One note for those that don't read the Schwarz' blog - Lie Nielsen now offers a custom brass-backed miter saw made to your specifications to fit your metal miter box for $180.

They've also put a drawknife on their website, though that's an unofficially announced tool AFAIK.

[Rick Markham]

That was the closest comparison I could think to make. That's pretty cool about the Lie nielsen making replacement miter box saws. I guess with either one, you would still want to clean up your edges with a shooting board and plane anyway lol

[David Keller NC]

That was the closest comparison I could think to make. That's pretty cool about the Lie nielsen making replacement miter box saws. I guess with either one, you would still want to clean up your edges with a shooting board and plane anyway lol

Just for the discussion value:

Many of us at times will assert that our preferred particular technique/tool offers advantages over the norm. I'm no exception in that I don't think a piece of colonial furniture made largely with modern methods is the equal of the same piece made by the means available to the original makers. I'm well aware, though, that I'm a small minority that holds that view.

That said, I've definitely noticed that there's a huge difference between sawing a miter on the end of a board with a hand-saw and doing the same thing with a calibrated power miter saw. In this case, the power miter saw is by far the superior tool in my opinion. The simple reason is that unlike sawing a 90 degree crosscut, it's dang hard to knife a line at some arbitrary angle all the way around the board to prevent the surface from being torn out by the hand saw. And taking care of that inevitable tear-out isn't easy with hand tools - one generally has to either take 1/4" off with a miter shooting board and a plane (definitely not a good thing - WAY too much work), or reduce the thickness of the whole board with a hand plane to below the depth of torn splinters.

I've considered just knifing a line across the top of the board to prevent tear-out of the show surface, and let the bottom side chunk out, but that's often really undesirable when one's making a frame and panel door with mitered corners.

Am I missing something here? Has someone at SMC found a way around this? That might, btw, be partially why finding mitered stile & rails on a panel door is fairly rare from the age of handwork, though one does find mitered breadboard ends on the fall fronts of southern colonial desks as a matter of course.

[John A. Callaway]

I thought the low angle jack served basically the same purpose.... this # 51 is one of those tools that you just buy it to say you own it....

[James Baker SD]

how is it different in performance from the #9 miter plane they sell?

[george wilson]

We had an original Stanley miter outfit in Wmsbg. I wanted to borrow it for making some casting patterns for 18th.C. cooking pots-to make the Dutch oven lid,actually. Patterns like the lid are often made in reversed pie slices glued up for stability.

The old Stanley was warped too badly to do accurate work. I wasn't allowed to machine it true. Guess it will sit in collections un usable forever. It isn't 18th.C.,won't be featured in any publications,and can't be used in the Historic Trades shops.

I thought it was a very cool concept. I ought to make one up of my own design,but I seldom have need for such a tool,being mostly a guitar builder.

I used to be a Baptist,but now I'm a Luthier.:) Used to tell the public that for a laugh.

[Jack Camillo]

Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.

I agree and was about to make some sort of remark. Then I recalled that I spent about 500 five years ago on a great chainsaw that I use around my property... for maybe two hours a year. Glad I have it. Fortunate that I had the money to buy it. Probably could have gotten by much cheaper.

[Bill Houghton]

It appears the average yearly income in 1915 was $687.

"In 1915, when a #4 Bailey bench plane cost $2.20 or a complete #45 $7.00 the #52 cost $10.00." Garret Hack, pg 144 The Handplane Book

Yes $500 is steep for my tastes, I am interested to see what the set costs. In any shape or form it's going to be a bit out of my price range for a shooting plane. I will admit that I can't help but be fascinated all the same.

That 1915 annual income works out to $13/week - so a #52 would have been most of a week's income.

According to Wikipedia, the median family income in the U.S. in 2008 was $52,000, for a weekly income of $1,000 (note that median is different from average). So, if the Lie-Nielsen #51/52 combo comes in at $1,000, it will be all of a week's income.

Regardless, pretty rich for my wallet, unless the lottery gods smile upon me.

[Rick Markham]

I'd like to see a Wilson version ;) I think Derek Cohen's Carousel shooting board is an excellent example of a modern refined version of it (except being in hardwood)

Honestly the difference to me between the iron miter plane, and the LN no 51, is it is built to ride in the "track" of the shooting board. Besides the fact that it is a bevel down plane and the iron miter plane (no. 9) is a bevel up plane. Having tried the no. 9 I did really like the feel of it on a shooting board. The no 51 has substantially more girth and I have to say that the tilted tote, looks like it would be really comfortable, though the hot dog on the no. 9 pretty much puts your hand nice and centered over the middle of the plane. I guess it is dif-fernt stroke fer dif-fernt folks.

How bout that bevel down miter plane that Ron Brese makes... that's a tasty treat!:D

[Don Dorn]

Like thier other products, I'm positive it's a fine tool and works well. However, it's a matter of justification for use, at least for me. There just isn't any way I can get $500 worth of use (productivity) out such a specialized tool over the next couple of decades - even if I used it allot. There are so many other good shooting options that involve planes that have other primary uses that I just can't help but wonder if it's primarily a product for the tool collector.

[John A. Callaway]

my point exactly.... you can buy a LA jack and get the hotdog handle and have a tool that does so many more things....as well as working great on a shooting board... and it costs half the price...

[john brenton]

with the price of a set of these premium planes you could have a full blown shop with machines that let you do the work 10 times faster.

It would be better to put yourself to the task making this:
http://www.geotrtout.free.fr/2010-03/rabot-recaloir_01.jpg



Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.

[Derek Cohen]

I posted much of this information before ....

If you ever hankered after a Stanley #51, get the LN.

I have a Stanley #51/52 combination chute plane and board. It is one of the treasures in my workshop. A pleasure to use and one that brings a smile to me face every time. Of course there are cheaper options available - a shooting board can be as simple as a couple of boards nailed together with a bench plane for a shooter. Like quality infills and other desirable handtools, the reason d'etre for a #51/52 transcends cost, or at least the price of the average LN or LV plane.

So why would I want the LN #51? Because it promises to be problem-free. I recall discussing the design with Thomas LN a few years ago, and he pointed out then that the frog used would be from a #5 1/2. That is the key factor. The frog on the original Stanley #51 is the weak area. It is fragile and often breaks. There is no other frog to substitute. Mine was welded together - a reason why I picked it up (on eBay) cheaply. I think the total for the #51/52 was about $700 (AUD ... about $500 USD at the time). It needed full restoration. Here is a link to the article I wrote:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/Restoring%20a%20Stanley%205152.html

I have used the #51 on a couple of shooting boards, both flat and ramped. As a stand-alone shooter it is a wonderful tool. Comparing it with a #9 is difficult as I have not had them against one another. However I would be surprised if the #9 was preferred. The #51 is well designed ergonomically. The angle of the tote encourages one to push laterally as well as forwards.

Of course the biggest factor of the #51 is the skew blade. There is a definite advantage - both in ease and quality of the cut - when using one over a square bladed plane. The #51 has a blade bedded at 45 degrees, but the slicing action creates less impact that a square blade with a lower cutting angle (such as a LA Jack).

Cost of the LN? Very reasonable in my opinion. How many do you think they will sell? Consider then the costs of getting the plane to the marketplace. Consider also that a vintage Stanley #51 alone will cost about $500, and a #51/52 in decent condition can set you back about $1500.

Images of mine after the restoration:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Restoration/Stanley%2051-52/Re-Japanning/51-leftside.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Restoration/Stanley%2051-52/Re-Japanning/51finished2.jpg

A shot of a clean workshop ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MyWorkshop_html_m2abfdbb5.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rick Markham]

Thanks for chiming in Derek, I was hoping you would catch this thread! Thats a beauty ya got there! I was wondering if the blade was skewed, it was hard to tell exactly from the photo on the webpage, and I only have one (mediocre at best) photo of an original stanley 51, 52 combination. (You can't see the angle of the blade) So you already answered the major question I had regarding it. The angle of the tote, looks to be one of the best features of it, it was the first thing that drew my attention.

[Jim Koepke]

Though I do a lot of shooting, I doubt I will buy one of these. If I had the money and the need, I would line up today.

Here is the Blood & Gore on the original:

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm#num51

Some very amazing abilities from this set up.

It is more than just a shooting board and a plane.

As to the cost of LN tools, one of the costs is in the assurance of satisfaction both LV and LN extend to their customers. Another is that in many cases, we can actually try these tools before we buy them. Sears is not going to let me come in to their store and use a router, table saw or band saw and then stand around and watch others use them. I doubt they will let me cut and pare dovetails in their store with any of their hand tools. Two of our favorite tool makers will and be happy for you to bring a friend along to try the tools out with you.

Service, quality and traveling road shows all add to the cost of producing a product. Having knowledgeable people working for you also adds to the cost. When you get down to it, their tools only seem high priced. When I was working, if I paid myself for the time spent on fixing some of my old tool finds, they would have come in at about the same price as a new LN or LV plane, chisel or saw. Some of my old rehabs are likely more expensive when looked at in such a light.

jtk

[Don Dorn]

I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been. I simply think that the price of the 51 is cost prohibitive, at least for me. That doesn't mean that I take issue with all LN pricing as I have a 3, 4 1/2, 60 1/2 rabbet, 10 1/4 Rabbet and a 102. I'm certainly willing to pay for the quality of LN and LV (have a few of those too), but those planes all do something I find useful either allot, or at least fairly often.

The 51 would be a fantastic shooter of which I don't dispute, but for $500, I can't use it enough to make it pay for itself. I'll stick with my LV BU jack and a board that has enough incline that a slight skew is built in. I appreciate Dereks post, actually all of them , but with all due respect, not everyone calculates a tools value the same.

For their sake, I hope they sell allot to pay for the tooling, R&D an all other costs associated, I just suspect that at that price, their homes will be more tool collectors than users.

[george wilson]

Whoever made the wooden mitering rig mentioned by John above,was quite a thoughtful craftsman. His plane has a little(brass,I think) wear strip on its lower edge. The groove for the plane is adjustable,like the Stanley. Along the top edge,where the brass finger steadies the plane,the body of the plane also has a metal wear strip.

I think he did a great job of making the whole setup. From the type wedge used,I'm wondering if the rig is continental?

Rick,on any such outfit I might make,the board itself would have to be milled out of the solid,and aluminum at that. I have no desire to go to the trouble to make and get cast the 1-off castings that would be required. I have a good amount of thick aluminum plate which I could mill out. The sliding areas would have to be lined with steel.

I think the castings would be very expensive,requiring hand packing the molds,which would be rare to find these days. I'd most likely have to mount the components on match plates to even get started on finding a foundry to cast them. Then,the foundry wants to FIRST make the match plates into aluminum castings,to withstand the pressure of machine packing them.

The main reason I probably would never build the outfit is,as I mentioned earlier,I'd never find a use for it in the instrument making I do. I hardly ever make a piece of furniture.

It would be a great opportunity to do some exciting design work,though.

[Steve Friedman]

Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.

Doesn't make them any more affordable, but I just got back from a visit to the Lie-Nielsen factory and am amazed that they are able to offer a hand-made product (made in relatively low volume) at those prices!

Yes, my wallet's a bit lighter after the visit.

Steve

[Rick Markham]

George, I don't blame ya, sounds like an awful lot of work for something you wouldn't use... guess I will just have to be satisfied with looking at gorgeous instruments and tools you make :D

Having watched the Lie Nielsen videos that they had out last year, there is a substatial amount of hand work that goes into packing their forms in the foundry. Something that everytime I have seen video of the process makes me think what a heavy, dirty, back breaking job that can be.

[Will Blick]

Whenever a new specialty tool is made, where there is little or no competition, the pricing is a bit higher. Lets face it, the company is paying USA wages, USA rent, USA utilities, etc. etc. This is what low volume products cost to produce these days. It's a high risk business, which probably only exist due to a passionate ww owner... you gotta love this stuff to be in the field and to introduce new products like this, which surely will never be avail for sale at the BORG's. :-)

LV is different, they are a full blown retailer of many ww products, so its much less risky for them to proceed in developing and introducing new products.....

I like the new plane, but would not buy it until I see the shooter they make to work with it. I like the idea of a mating shooting system that assures a perfectly aligned system. Of course, the blade alignment in the plane could be the "weak link in the chain" of the entire system. Maybe that has or will be addressed?

I think the old Stanley version is a very unique product.... I have always been fascinated by it. For certain applications where precision is of the upmost importance, it serves its purpose.... in a production environment, the cost would be a non-issue. But for most hobbiest who just like nice tools, cost is usually always an issue :-(

[Chuck Tringo]

Time to start a new piggy bank :D wonder if I can have it full before the 52 comes out....OH WAIT....its right handed...I need to call and see if Tom has any plans for a southpaw version.

[Rick Markham]

Time to start a new piggy bank :D wonder if I can have it full before the 52 comes out....OH WAIT....its right handed...I need to call and see if Tom has any plans for a southpaw version.

Ah the curse of the lefty strikes again! Thank goodness I am ambidextrous... I can use your scissors and the rest of the worlds scissors too:D

[Gary Hodgin]

Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.

A combination of limited market size, high production cost, and relatively inelastic demand.

[george wilson]

I'm left handed,but using the new shooting board would not bother me. I did force myself to learn to play the guitar right handed,which was very awkward feeling at first. Glad I had sense enough at a young age to do it right handed.

[Jim Koepke]

I like the new plane, but would not buy it until I see the shooter they make to work with it. I like the idea of a mating shooting system that assures a perfectly aligned system. Of course, the blade alignment in the plane could be the "weak link in the chain" of the entire system. Maybe that has or will be addressed?

I think the old Stanley version is a very unique product.... I have always been fascinated by it. For certain applications where precision is of the upmost importance, it serves its purpose.... in a production environment, the cost would be a non-issue. But for most hobbiest who just like nice tools, cost is usually always an issue :-(

If my reading of the specifications was correct, they will use the same frog as is used on their 2-3/8 inch bladed planes. This type of plane will need some lateral adjustment of the blade. For a pattern maker it is often desired to make a cut a little off square. This allows "draft" for pieces to fall easily out of the molds that are being made.

The Stanley version used a frog that was only used in the #51. It was also the weak link in the plane. That is one advantage that LN has, they can learn from the mistakes made in the past and improve the product.

It seems unlikely to me that LN is going to make their first dog.

Of course, if I start a piggy bank today it will likely take me long enough to save up for this tool that I will be able to find one used.

jtk

[Rick Markham]

Somethings I do predominantly right handed, I write right handed. But others I do with both hands. Using hand planes happens to be one of those things, I can use either equally well. Recently when flattening two 18" wide by 6' long panels it was easiest for me to pull my workbench out and step behind it to use my left hand for the farthest side. (which was nice trading out arms)

I am taking a drawing class (first time) and last week found some curves and areas were easier for me to draw with my left hand. Some things are more comfortable lefty, some righty. It comes in "handy" sometimes. (that bad pun signals its past my bedtime)

I was the kid, when it came time to teach me to write, they didn't know which hand to choose. The family doctor told my parents to choose which ever hand I colored with... I used both equally. I know... I'm a freak of nature :eek: It was always a good way to "shake up" a pitcher when I was younger, after the first pitch to step across the plate and start batting southpaw LOL

[Brian Ashton]

Why do all these tools have to be so gosh darn expensive.


LOL you should see what the lie nielsen aus site sells them for! When you add in the wage earning power (or lack of) they're about $1000 each - so stop yer whining :)

[David Weaver]

I'm left handed,but using the new shooting board would not bother me. I did force myself to learn to play the guitar right handed,which was very awkward feeling at first. Glad I had sense enough at a young age to do it right handed.

George - that's a tall order considering your preference to make guitars that suit fingerstyle (at least I'm assuming that's your preference, I think I've either seen you state it here or maybe just assumed it based on the guitars of yours I've seen).

My guitar instructor was in the same vein - he was lefty but had no interest in playing guitar lefty. He told me he had a lot of struggles getting down right hand fingerstyle stuff, but he did have a monster left hand I could only dream of duplicating.

[george wilson]

David,I was 13 when I started playing,and had always struggled with having to use a right handed baseball glove. That is what made me decide to play right handed. I do play finger style. It is perfectly natural,and was just a few months after I got into it.

I have seen some strange left hand playing techniques over the years. Like holding the guitar left handed,so the strings are upside down,and trying to play. It's terribly limiting.

Back when I started,I don't think anyone made a left hand guitar. Now they do. I am glad I stuck with it,because the choice of guitars would have been very limited,even today. Plus,I have to build for right handed people,and test the guitars. Right now I'm making one for a right hander. Actually,I don't recall ever making a left handed guitar.

[Chris Vandiver]

In the late 1960's I saw Jimi Hendrix play at Winterland in San Francisco. The first set he played left handed(with a right handed guitar, I believe), the second set he played right handed. He was pretty good with either hand!

[george wilson]

Yes,he did use a right handed Fender. I wonder why he didn't get a left handed one so the deeper cutaway would be on the correct side?

Of course,anyone who would pour lighter fluid on his guitar and set it on fire should have a cardboard guitar anyway!:)

I never could understand those idiots like the ones who would kick all their speakers in after a concert. Destructiveness like that is terrible.

[Rick Markham]

Yes,he did use a right handed Fender. I wonder why he didn't get a left handed one so the deeper cutaway would be on the correct side?

Of course,anyone who would pour lighter fluid on his guitar and set it on fire should have a cardboard guitar anyway!:)

I never could understand those idiots like the ones who would kick all their speakers in after a concert. Destructiveness like that is terrible.

I think most of those fellers are probably too busy being all messed up to think much about craftsmanship and how foolish destroying it really is. The Who could destroy a hotel room in less than 60 seconds. They at least had the good sense to lay off their instruments though.

[Dan Carroll]

Somethings I do predominantly right handed, I write right handed. But others I do with both hands. Using hand planes happens to be one of those things, I can use either equally well. Recently when flattening two 18" wide by 6' long panels it was easiest for me to pull my workbench out and step behind it to use my left hand for the farthest side. (which was nice trading out arms)

I am taking a drawing class (first time) and last week found some curves and areas were easier for me to draw with my left hand. Some things are more comfortable lefty, some righty. It comes in "handy" sometimes. (that bad pun signals its past my bedtime)

I was the kid, when it came time to teach me to write, they didn't know which hand to choose. The family doctor told my parents to choose which ever hand I colored with... I used both equally. I know... I'm a freak of nature :eek: It was always a good way to "shake up" a pitcher when I was younger, after the first pitch to step across the plate and start batting southpaw LOL


I have a brother that goes back and forth between left handed and right handed. He can write, work with tools etc either just as well. You should see him work on a circuit board or a computer -- down right weird looking. Your swith hitting stunt was one he did all the time. Ended up in the Navy doing things in black suits. Can shoot with either hand too and if that does not scare the hell out of you, it ought to.

[Rick Markham]

I have a brother that goes back and forth between left handed and right handed. He can write, work with tools etc either just as well. You should see him work on a circuit board or a computer -- down right weird looking. Your swith hitting stunt was one he did all the time. Ended up in the Navy doing things in black suits. Can shoot with either hand too and if that does not scare the hell out of you, it ought to.

Shooting pistols is one of those things that isn't awkward with either hand for me, i'm right eye dominant so that made the lefty thing seem a little strange at first. As long as your brother is on our side I ain't skeered... If I was on the other side your darn toot'in I'd be scared. Tell him thanks for doing what he does so the rest of us can indulge in our freedoms!

[Will Boulware]

Of course,anyone who would pour lighter fluid on his guitar and set it on fire should have a cardboard guitar anyway!:)



He did play a Danelectro for a while before he got "famous"..... :D

[george wilson]

The Danelectros AND their amps were masonite. Old Dan seemed very fond of masonite!!!I have a new re-issue made in China (I guess). It is actually a whole lot better than the originals. Has a real truss rod(the old ones always warped badly),a MUCH better finish,and a great sound. It is still a toy,but can be fun.''I do believe the old ones were lightly sprayed with spray cans.

Do you know that he actually bought up a large bunch of lipstick tubes,and used them to make the pickups? The pickups were a thin,rectangular magnet,freehand wound with 42 gauge wire to fit into the round tube. A wonder he got it in the tube.

[Tom Henderson2]

I thought the low angle jack served basically the same purpose.... this # 51 is one of those tools that you just buy it to say you own it....

LA Jack is a general-purpose plane; many use it for surfacing.

#51 is purpose-built for one purpose.

I'm not arguing for or against buying one; just disagreeing with your premise that the LAJ and #51 are designed to do the same thing.

[Scott Mark]

When my cousin first went to school he'd pass the pencil to the other hand half way across the page.

I'm left handed right eyed with a gun and a pool cue. I'm worthless with a pistol and stopped playing pool before I got cross eyed. Rifle wise I could shoot sparrows at 50-100 yards with 90% accuracy and open sites. Using a scope for deer hunting just throws me off.

All lefties end up having to learn to do some things right handed. I won a belt buckle when I was eight. Had to learn how to put my belt on right handed so it wasn't upside down.



As for woodworking I was about 70/30 left over right when I started. I've gotten it down to 55/45 so I'm ready when I finally get a, strangely enough, a #45 or #55 (#46 in the afterlife).

I also have my workbench in the center of the shop. Just made sense at the time. After reading Rick's post and realizing I do the same thing I guess I know why.

As for the prices of LV & LN, I can't afford or justify buying many of their tools but the ones I have are worth 1/2 their weight in gold. Gotta adjust for the run-up in gold prices!

[John Shuk]

We had an original Stanley miter outfit in Wmsbg. I wanted to borrow it for making some casting patterns for 18th.C. cooking pots-to make the Dutch oven lid,actually. Patterns like the lid are often made in reversed pie slices glued up for stability.

The old Stanley was warped too badly to do accurate work. I wasn't allowed to machine it true. Guess it will sit in collections un usable forever. It isn't 18th.C.,won't be featured in any publications,and can't be used in the Historic Trades shops.

I thought it was a very cool concept. I ought to make one up of my own design,but I seldom have need for such a tool,being mostly a guitar builder.

I used to be a Baptist,but now I'm a Luthier.:) Used to tell the public that for a laugh.
Ah but perhaps your design could be passed along to Bridge City Toolworks or Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley.
I don't know the logistics of such a thing but it sure would be cool.