Dynabrade Air DA vs. Festool Random Orbital EDIT: Ridgid Added to the mix

[Nick Sorenson]

I have been using a Dynabrade for a while now and have been really happy with it.

Is there anyone who's compared the Festool Electric Random Orbital to a good quality Dynabrade DA?

I looked and I didn't find anything with someone who's used both regularly and commented.

The Dynabrade is tried and true and is around half the price (Silver Supreme) of the Festool.

Seems like people weren't happy about the balance of the Festool RO 150 Rotex (big and with a right angle handle) and saying that it is easy to dig in on one side and not stay flat. But there are other models that are Random Orbital only. Maybe those are easier to use.

Regardless, I'm curious if anyone's used both and what the results were.

Also, it seems like the old version of Ridgid's German made Metabo brand 6" sander has been mentioned as good. Is the newer Chinese version any good?

[Peter Quinn]

I have both a festool es125 and a es 150/3 ROS in the home shop and use dynabrade 5" air sanders at work. I like the festool sanders for electric tools, and prefer not to stress out my compressor at home using an air sander. The dust collection on the festools is great, and the balance is good too. I have not tried the Rotex. I don't need that grinding action for my work. As far as sanding, both the festool and the dynabrade are pretty close in my mind. Minimal swirling, minimal vibration. The difference? The dynabrades will run flat out for days of production, the festool is not made for that. With one you are dragging an air hose, the other an electrical cord, so from that perspective its about the same. Either will make your hand numb if you sand long enough. The electrics are a bit quieter. so that is more pleasant.

If you have a compressor that will push an air sander and already have a dynabrade I wouldn't be in a big hurry to run out and get a festool frankly. It will do about the same thing. Festool makes air sanders too, though I haven't tried them.

[Nick Sorenson]

I have both a festool es125 and a es 150/3 ROS in the home shop and use dynabrade 5" air sanders at work. I like the festool sanders for electric tools, and prefer not to stress out my compressor at home using an air sander. The dust collection on the festools is great, and the balance is good too. I have not tried the Rotex. I don't need that grinding action for my work. As far as sanding, both the festool and the dynabrade are pretty close in my mind. Minimal swirling, minimal vibration. The difference? The dynabrades will run flat out for days of production, the festool is not made for that. With one you are dragging an air hose, the other an electrical cord, so from that perspective its about the same. Either will make your hand numb if you sand long enough. The electrics are a bit quieter. so that is more pleasant.

If you have a compressor that will push an air sander and already have a dynabrade I wouldn't be in a big hurry to run out and get a festool frankly. It will do about the same thing. Festool makes air sanders too, though I haven't tried them.

Thanks! I'm glad to hear from someone who's used both. And yeah, I really can't imagine anything working smoother or better than a Dynabrade. I suppose maybe another air sander like Hutchins or another high end model would work as well.

I highlighted the part about the sander volume and leaving your hand numb. I haven't had that with my Dyna. But it's a newer model (Silver Supreme) with the graphite or some synthetic for the blades on the motor. It's very quiet and easy to hang onto. I have an import sander as well (blue and yellow one that harbor freight sells but from TCP Global finishing). It's horrible compared to the dynabrade. It's leaves hands cold and numb and ears sore. I love the silver supreme. No complaints other than that it uses air. The other thing is that the dynabrade silver supreme speed is VERY easy to control compared to the Chinese sander. It's just how hard you press and it's very easy to get used to. The button and grip don't get cold which is nice. The new model dynabrade is pretty easy on air compared to other sanders.

But... if there were an electric that were just as good, it'd probably better on the electric bill. The compressor is a 5 HP motor and it's 220. I can't imagine it being cheap to run.

[Alan Schaffter]

I have a few Dynabrades- and will never use my PC's again unless I don't have air handy.

A few things not mentioned about the Dynabrades- they are designed for production work (furniture factories and autobody shops) so are made for HEAVY use, but if you do break something you can easily get replacement parts, including a new air motor. I wonder if the new "Silver" motor will fit a "Supreme"?

Another item, is that I don't have the best dessicant setup on my compressed air system and thought I damaged one of my Dynabrades, when all I did was to get enough water/water vapor in it to prevent the rotor from spinning up. A bit of drying and a few drops of oil and its back working like a champ.

I haven't used the Festool much but did a quickcomparison using a friend's- the action of both is comparable, but I like the smaller palm size of the Dynabrade.

[Nick Sorenson]

I have a few Dynabrades- and will never use my PC's again unless I don't have air handy.

A few things not mentioned about the Dynabrades- they are designed for production work (furniture factories and autobody shops) so are made for HEAVY use, but if you do break something you can easily get replacement parts, including a new air motor. I wonder if the new "Silver" motor will fit a "Supreme"?

Another item, is that I don't have the best dessicant setup on my compressed air system and thought I damaged one of my Dynabrades, when all I did was to get enough water/water vapor in it to prevent the rotor from spinning up. A bit of drying and a few drops of oil and its back working like a champ.

I haven't used the Festool much but did a quickcomparison using a friend's- the action of both is comparable, but I like the smaller palm size of the Dynabrade.

I agree... it fits like a glove and is very easy to control. That's another thing I don't like about the import Blue Plastic one (Same as HF's orbital Air DA)... it's much harder to control and hang on to.

[Nick Sorenson]

Sounds like the Festool is a good electric equivalent to the Dynabrade air tool.

I would guess most other electric sanders aren't up to the same quality in sanding.

Seems like from what I've read the Festool is one of the best if the best electric ROS's currently.

Good to know. Thanks for the replies guys who've experienced both.

[Rob Holcomb]

I have a Dynabrade ROS and love it but I'm not sure what the problem is with it. If I haven't used it for a while (a month or two) and then need it, I oil it and it doesn't start up right away. I end up having to bang it down on my workbench a couple times. Then it works like a champ

[Jim Becker]

While I haven't used the Dynabrade, I suspect that the dust collection on the Festool is better and I can absolutely attest that it features very low vibration...I can use mine for hours without getting a numb hand. I have both the Rotex and the 150/3. I use the 150/3 for 95% of my sanding work and consider the Rotex a "specialty" tool for my purposes. I prefer to "one hand" the tool when sanding which is darn hard to do with the Rotex. Both leave essentially zero dust with the CT-22 vac (or equivalent) and are reasonably quiet. I pull out the Rotex when I need it's extra oomph with the rotary mode. A recent example was when I was smoothing some old white pine barn boards to make a flooring patch and a previous project where I was restoring a rear blade for the tractor.

[Brian Ross]

Sounds like the Festool is a good electric equivalent to the Dynabrade air tool.

I would guess most other electric sanders aren't up to the same quality in sanding.

Seems like from what I've read the Festool is one of the best if the best electric ROS's currently.

Good to know. Thanks for the replies guys who've experienced both.

I have more Festool than I care to admit including a Rotex 150 and a 5 in ROS. Festool has excellent dust collection but when it comes to sanding they are no better than my dewalt's . I had an employee that was sanding 50 doors and complained of the Festool being slow. The next day he brought his own Dewalt and we both sanded and he was kicking my butt and I was using the Festool Rotex 150. The Rotex 150 is excellent if you want to remove material quickly and are not concerned about scratch marks.

I also have a dynabrade but have not hooked up my big compressor. Love my Domino and Festool routers.

Brian

[Don Selke]

I have the es125 and the 150/3 along with the Rotex. As Jim stated, the Rotex is not a sander that you can use with one hand. The Rotex was the first Festool sander that I purchased but I get fatigued after using it for more then 10 minutes. The 150/3 lets me sand for hours without any fatigue at all. The es125 is used for narrow stock and small projects like face frames and stock under 6" in width. Dust collection is excillent with the Festool dust extractor. At 71 years young, fatigue is very important.

[Peter Quinn]

I highlighted the part about the sander volume and leaving your hand numb. I haven't had that with my Dyna. But it's a newer model (Silver Supreme) with the graphite or some synthetic for the blades on the motor. It's very quiet and easy to hang onto.

Nick, I have no idea which model dynabrades I have been using, but its in a commercial millwork shop, and for several years I made mostly passage doors. At the tail end of a given door run, say 30-40 doors, we'll be sanding pretty much for 8 hours a day three days straight. The youngest sander is maybe 3 years old, the oldest, maybe 7? No rebuilds! One is a bit of a screamer noise wise, another a bit quieter, the newest one far less vibration. I wear ear plugs with all of them. At the end of an 8 hour sanding session, I don't care who's sander you are using, if you don't feel any tingling, your hand may be dead!:D They all make some vibration. I will push to get a new one though when the economy picks up a bit though. Anything that makes sanding less painful is great! Is yours a 5"? Even the worst dyanbrade I have used is better than several other major brands of electric ROS I have used as far as vibration.

I can say that the DC on the newer dynabrade is pretty close to the festool. But I don't like dragging the hose around the bench when sanding big things like large FF assemblies or passage doors. We have a sort of draft wall that sucks out dust if you sand in front of it. I too love that easy control and extension of your hand feeling the dynabrades give. Man are they tough too. At home I work in a basement, so the festool dustless sanding is a must, and I usually sand at night after teh kids go to bed, so the low DB thing is also a must for me, and my compressor is NOT a quiet thing at all.

[J.R. Rutter]

I used a Festool 150 and a 125 for years until the bearings started to get rough and vibration increased. From there I went to 3M air sanders, and more recently to the Dynabrade Silver Supreme. The Dynabrade is nice and compares pretty well to the 150/3. The Festool 125 was not worth the money for me.

I agree that the dust collection on the Festool is superior, but the Dynabrade isn't bad at all. The Mirka Abranet that we use probably helps a lot.

[Mike Heidrick]

I love Mirka Abranet. Got some two months ago and I think it last 3X the brilliant and crystal paper and norton blue paper.

I own a 150/3 and love it as well. Also have a PC 6336.

I would like to try a dynabrade or 3M. I would love to try wet dry abralon with one on some corian. I have a 12.5 cfm at 90psi 60gal compressor - would that work with one?

[Rick Christopherson]

I have a Dynabrade ROS and love it but I'm not sure what the problem is with it. If I haven't used it for a while (a month or two) and then need it, I oil it and it doesn't start up right away. I end up having to bang it down on my workbench a couple times. Then it works like a champYou are probably getting too much moisture into your sander and after sitting for a while, it will corrode up. If the vanes do not slide freely, it will be sluggish to get started. The picture below is from a sander that was having similar problems.

Take it apart and clean the motor. Drain your compressor more often. There are instructions on my website for Rebuilding a Dynabrade (http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Projects/airsander.html).

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Projects/Images/Cylinder-lo.jpg

[J.R. Rutter]

At the tail end of a given door run, say 30-40 doors, we'll be sanding pretty much for 8 hours a day three days straight.

Ouch, that's brutal! If you have space, maybe you should push for an orbital overhead sander to compliment the widebelt, like a DMC Finesand. They seem to be on auction a lot, and would cut hand sanding down quite a bit, depending on door style.

[Rob Holcomb]

Rick I sent you a message. Thanks for the information!


You are probably getting too much moisture into your sander and after sitting for a while, it will corrode up. If the vanes do not slide freely, it will be sluggish to get started. The picture below is from a sander that was having similar problems.

Take it apart and clean the motor. Drain your compressor more often. There are instructions on my website for Rebuilding a Dynabrade (http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Projects/airsander.html).

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Projects/Images/Cylinder-lo.jpg

[Nick Sorenson]

I love Mirka Abranet. Got some two months ago and I think it last 3X the brilliant and crystal paper and norton blue paper.

I own a 150/3 and love it as well. Also have a PC 6336.

I would like to try a dynabrade or 3M. I would love to try wet dry abralon with one on some corian. I have a 12.5 cfm at 90psi 60gal compressor - would that work with one?


I recommend the Dynabrade over the 3M. In my experience the 3M is maybe a slight step up from a HF import sander. But I only used it a few times before putting it back on ebay (bought it brand new in box). I am pretty sure they're made in Asia (probably China) if I remember right from the tag. The Dynabrade is still Made In USA.

But beyond that, I can tell you that it's a much better sander. Smoother, quieter, and it seems like a little less air. Most of all the Dynabrade is VERY easy to control the speed. This makes it a LOT easier to use than any other sander I've tried.

But it still requires lots of air. It seems like my electric bills have been high since the Pneumatic sanders.

[Alan Schaffter]

D'oh, my Dynabrade doesn't run very well on water!!!

I was sanding a project last night and my Dyabrade started acting up. I looked at the gauge on my wall-mounted regulator- good pressure. Then the filter/muffler on the sander leaked a little water. Hmmm. . . When I plumbed my shop air years ago, I mounted the water separator behind an accessible kneewall where I can get to it if I need to drain it, but can't see it unless I crawl back there which I did. At first look the water separator reservoir appeared empty- the drain wasn't working though so I wasn't sure. Then I tapped on the glass and saw an air bubble at the VERY top!!!! The whole reservoir was filled with water!!!! After bleeding down the pressure I removed and emptied the reservoir, blew out the lines and put everything back together.

I also thoroughly blew out the Dynabrade and added a few drops of oil. Now it works much better. A lot of moisture in the air is a real hazard here in North Carolina in the summer. I guess I need to relocate the water separator.

[Thomas Bennett]

I use three 10 year old 5" Dynabrades , professionaly, on a daily basis. About a year ago I was having some trouble with them and found Rick Christopherson's article on cleaning and rebuilding. I did not replace any parts, except pads. All are functioning well. Thankyou Rick!
If you have the air, I recomend them over any electric model.

[Ryan Hellmer]

I'll pipe up on the ridgid, I've used some nice air sanders in the autobody world, but don't have the money for the festool or dynabrade (not so much the sander, mostly the compressor). I've used my Ridgid 6" on both 1/4" and 1/8" orbits with everything from 40 to 220 grit on floors and furniture projects. I find it to be a very satisfactory sander. Relatively quiet, relatively smooth and relatively easy to control. I'm very impressed with the dust collection when attached to a vacuum. It is not a production level sander but for a homeowner/hobbyist like me, it's a HUGE step up from the little P-C and Milwaukee buzzers. I've only used a festool for about 15 seconds at a wwing show and it is a better sander, but I'm not convinced it's 3-4 times better (based on price). I wouldn't pass it over. As for longevity I have no clue, I've used it fairly regularly for the last year, and it has lifetime service so I'm hoping for a long time.

Ryan

[Rick Christopherson]

About a year ago I was having some trouble with them and found Rick Christopherson's article on cleaning and rebuilding. Glad to hear I could help.

[Noah Katz]

Can anyone throw the PC390 into the comparison mix?

[Rick Christopherson]

Can anyone throw the PC390 into the comparison mix?No. They are not even in the same ballpark. (EDIT: I have not examined the 390. My comments are based on the 332. I could be TOTALLY off base!) The PC sanders do have a respectable drivetrain for the low cost electrics, but the thing that KILLS them from contention is that their pad brake (never found on a pneumatic sander) is WAY too aggressive. In my educated and not-so-humble opinion, if you go with this sander, then remove the o-ring pad brake. Then you will have a decent sander.

[Greg Portland]

At the end of an 8 hour sanding session, I don't care who's sander you are using, if you don't feel any tingling, your hand may be dead!A few things that will help with tingling (for any given sander):

- Use a light grip. Tightly gripping the sander is going to cause early fatigue. Hopefully your sander is well balanced so you are able to use a light grip. The RO150/3 and Dynabrade both have excellent balance with a slight nod to the Dynabrade (simply due to the compact size).
- Change your grip often. I like the Festool because I can grab the handle, top or even the end. Being able to swap positions reduces the hand strain of using 1 grip the entire day. IMO the Festool gets a slight nod in this area.
- Let the tool & paper do the work. If you need to push down on the sander then it is either a poor tool or you are using old or poor paper. The weight of the sander should be all you need to get a good sanding action on the workpiece.

Having said all that, the real comparison should be between the Festool air sanders (http://www.festoolusa.com/products/compressed-air-sanders) and the Dynabrades.

[Quinn McCarthy]

I have 3 dynabrade sanders and I wouldn't give them up for anything in the world. I bought all 3 cheaper than one 5" festool RO sander. They just keep going and going. Very easy to clean and fix. I am not sure how festool charges for what they have. WHen the dual mode rotex came out I looked at that one too. Plus you have to buy the festool sander for it. Sure you might have to upgrade your compressor if is small. I have the 3/16" and 3/32" RO dyna brade and the inline sander. If I need to hog more material off you can get the 3/8" swirl.

A friend uses the same one I do. His are over 25 years old. THey run every day.

Quinn

[Callan Campbell]

I love air tools, I own many air tools. I have used Dynabrade, Atlas Copco, Suhner?, and others while at a day job where some else had 3 phase power and enough air compressor power to darn near lift the building!:p
But, I own almost no air powered sanders since I'm footing the electric bill at my home shop. Pneumatic DA's and the like are great, simple, long-lasting tools. Esp. if they're quality made in the first place and you take care of them. I just don't want to watch the electric meter spin like crazy to run a large enough air compressor that will keep up with a hungry air sander, and still need some more wattage to run a vacuum to keep up with the dust from the sanders output. So, I own lots of Festool sanders of many types, and one Festool dust vacuum with a cyclone unit from Oneida sitting on top of it. Smaller electric bill, less meter "dizzy", and while it's probably true that a well maintained air sander will outlast my Festools in terms of needed replacement parts, I don't have to run them in 8 hour shifts either. Thank God for that, that's alot of sanding....:D:D:D

[Noah Katz]

The PC sanders do have a respectable drivetrain for the low cost electrics, but the thing that KILLS them from contention is that their pad brake (never found on a pneumatic sander) is WAY too aggressive.

I don't get it, what's the issue?

The brake isn't doing anything when running, right?

[Randy Smith]

I wish this conversation could include a comparison of the Mirka Ceros, but I don't think it's available yet in the states. I saw one in Germany this summer and it looked nice, but I think it will be a "premium" product with a very "premium" price.

[Callan Campbell]

I wish this conversation could include a comparison of the Mirka Ceros, but I don't think it's available yet in the states. I saw one in Germany this summer and it looked nice, but I think it will be a "premium" product with a very "premium" price.
I think talkFestool covered this in the past year. I think someone bought into the system and reviewed it for other Festool owners and woodworkers. Check the site and see if I'm right about that thread.:confused:

[Jack Clark]

I wish this conversation could include a comparison of the Mirka Ceros, but I don't think it's available yet in the states. I saw one in Germany this summer and it looked nice, but I think it will be a "premium" product with a very "premium" price.

I believe it is hung up in the UL approval process. If the Ceros ever makes it through that, I hope its price isn't too outrageous. Here's an early press release on it:

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/CEROS+Woodworking+Sander+From+Heaven.aspx

[Ryan Hellmer]

That Ceros looks awesome. I love that it's a DC motor. The inverter will be a little cumbersome, but I'm sure the power is amazing. I looked one up for sale, 249 Pounds (britain) which would translate to about $390 in USD (at todays exchange rate). May need to start saving my pennies...

Ryan