Using a vacuum press to re-bond loose veneer

[john gibson]

Hello

I asked Joe this question over on veneersupplies.com, and he suggested that I post it here. I do restorations of antique phonographs, and I was wondering if a vacuum press would be useful for re-attaching loose veneer on antique phonograph cabinetry. Could I just apply glue under the existing loose veneer and place the component in a vacuum press to re-bond, or is it better to remove the old, loose veneer completely and start over?

New to all of this, but wanted to get the best results possible. Thanks for the advice.

John

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm visualizing a phonograph cabinet as a hollow box with veneer on the outside. If you put the hollow box in a vacuum bag and suck all the air out, the box is quite likely to collapse. To use a vacuum press, you're going to need to disassemble the box to the component panels. They'd be solid, and so will withstand the pressing.

[Tom McMahon]

I do lots of veneer repair and never remove the old veneer unless the substrate has failed. I have done a few Victrola cabinets usually they are old enough to have been done with hide glue. If they have been done with hide glue I repair them with the same. I use an old iron and hammer glue them. If not done with hide glue I use white glue, wax paper and cauls. I use white glue because it dries clear. On several occasions I have thought a vacuum system might be handy but have always worked around it.

[Chris Padilla]

Depending on where the veneer is loose and how much access you have to get glue under it well, there are many different ways to approach this.

Gorilla Glue (the [dreaded?] polyurethane glue) can work well for one good reason: upon warming it up in a bath of hot water, it almost approaches a viscosity of water and therefore flows very well and can allow getting glue deep into loose veneer sections.

Tom's method sounds great as well.

[Mike Henderson]

Unless the loose veneer is a very large piece, I prefer to clamp it with a caul with plastic under the caul to keep it from sticking to the veneer (if any glue comes through).

But you have to think carefully about the glue that's already there. You'll need to clean the substrate and old veneer as well as you can or the new glue won't hold - it'll stick to the old glue, which will give way again.

Epoxy usually works well but I've used PVA successfully, also.

Mike

[Scott Holmes]

Chris,

Drawbacks to poly glue are: the bond needs water to cure AND as the glue dries it tends to foam a bit. The foam has almost zero holding power and if it comes through or gets on the face of the veneer its a bear to fix the resulting stain...

[Tom McMahon]

The beauty of hide glue is that you don't have to remove the old glue, the new glue reamalgamates the old glue. The hammer lets you push the glue under the veneer to the spots you can't get to.

[dan petroski]

i do treddle sewing machines. i use the vacuum bags that you see on tv. cheep at discount stores. when doing a drawer that runs the risk of collapsing i put a block of wood in it to support it. have fun

[Harvey Pascoe]

One way to do this is to cut an appropriate size piece of vinyl for your job. Install the vacuum fitting to it. Place some plastic window screen over the veneer, then using hi-tack masking tape tape the vinyl to the area to be rebonded. If the wood is really rough, you can use weather stripping as a gasket. It won't perfectly seal so you'll have to let the pump run until its bonded, usually about 1/2 hr for PVA. Or you can cheat by using contact cement. Then you don't have to use a press at all.

In any case, go real easy on the glue, just a very thin film is all that is needed, say 5-10 mils depending on substrate.

[Dell Littlefield]

I have used a steam iron to reactivate the hide glue on old English grandfather clocks. It was used only on small areas. I have no experience on large or curved areas although I have heard others state they had good luck by folding a wet towel over the area then using an iron to steam it.

[george wilson]

NEVER,EVER use contact cement to glue veneer down. The pitfalls of this were explained in FWW quite a few years ago.

Williamsburg hired a total fraud to make a grand style 18th.C. piano. He had no idea how to veneer,and glued it on with contact cement. As the FWW article said,the veneer came loose on football shaped blisters,about the same size as footballs. When you pushed these blisters down,they made a sticking sound,and popped up again.

I had warned them that this guy was a fraud. They didn't listen. They ended up paying for their know it all foolishness.

[Mike Henderson]

NEVER,EVER use contact cement to glue veneer down. The pitfalls of this were explained in FWW quite a few years ago.

Williamsburg hired a total fraud to make a grand style 18th.C. piano. He had no idea how to veneer,and glued it on with contact cement. As the FWW article said,the veneer came loose on football shaped blisters,about the same size as footballs. When you pushed these blisters down,they made a sticking sound,and popped up again.

I had warned them that this guy was a fraud. They didn't listen. They ended up paying for their know it all foolishness.
I agree with George - contact cement is not a good way to glue veneer.

Mike

[Roger Newby]

+1 with George and Mike on contact cement. Did some ribbon stripe mahogany about 20 years ago and it's been haunting me ever since. Finally got some new veneer and that project is in line for rework this winter.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris,

Drawbacks to poly glue are: the bond needs water to cure AND as the glue dries it tends to foam a bit. The foam has almost zero holding power and if it comes through or gets on the face of the veneer its a bear to fix the resulting stain...

Agreed but I never add water to cure it and haven't had any issues. Less water means less foaming, too.