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View Full Version : Looking into buying a new laser, should i go brand new or used?



Dan Ashlin
09-10-2010, 10:17 AM
I guess a little back story is in order. In march, I took over an existing business. THe owner was retiring and my skill set in graphic design fit nicely with with it (an engraving and awards shop) I also saw a lot of potential for the laser machine that came with the business. Up until this point, it had only been used for engraving plates for trophies and a few gift items. So, I took a chance. Lo and behold, my equipment is now experiencing catastrophic failures! Yippee! I had to replace all the belts and bearings on the Trotec Speedy 1 as it had obviously never been serviced or even cleaned outside of a wipe down here and there. That was a bout 3 months ago and it was smooth sailing. Now, its just shutting off in the middle of jobs, won't turn on right away, getting errors but not outputting error codes. In short, its a mess and its on it's last legs. So, even though I can't really afford it right now since i just bought a business, I'm weighing my options on a new laser system as it is the lifeblood of the shop. Im leaning towards an epilog 36ext in the 35-50 watt range depending on price and I need a rotary attachment. Is there a cheaper but reliable alternative? I've heard things about Chinese lasers good and bad. Or, should I go used? I kind of threw myself head on into this whole situation so I'm really flying blind here. Any advice would be enormously appreciated. Thanks Guys!

Larry Bratton
09-10-2010, 12:03 PM
I think I would rather own a good used Epilog or Universal system than a Chinese system any day of the week. Some would disagree I suppose but I know if I have an Epilog machine, I can get tech support and have parts available. The fact that the laser is the life blood of your business should give you a clue that service has to be at the top of your list.

Ross Moshinsky
09-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Call up Trotec and ask for a service call. Get an actual estimate on how much it will cost to repair the laser. Although it may cost $1000-1500 to get up and running like new, that isn't that much considering the cost of a new laser. Once you figure in $20,000+interest for a new machine that will have a theoretical lifespan of around 15 years, you will come up with a cost of roughly $1500/annually. So if you repair your Trotec and it lasts for 2-3 years, you actually saved a good chunk of change.

I'd also ask, do you really need that big of a laser? There are a lot of benefits to a big laser, but you need to really think if you need a $20,000+ laser vs a $8,000 one.

Dan Ashlin
09-10-2010, 12:19 PM
That's what I'm leaning towards, the only problem is financial. The business isn't doing bad, but money is money and for the price of one epilog I can get 4 chinese lasers. My budget is limited and in either case, i would definitely have to make payments.

Scott Shepherd
09-10-2010, 12:22 PM
There's a nice trotec in the classified section right now. Plenty of power and all the accessories and it's almost brand new with the warranty remaining.

Dan Ashlin
09-10-2010, 12:23 PM
Call up Trotec and ask for a service call. Get an actual estimate on how much it will cost to repair the laser. Although it may cost $1000-1500 to get up and running like new, that isn't that much considering the cost of a new laser. Once you figure in $20,000+interest for a new machine that will have a theoretical lifespan of around 15 years, you will come up with a cost of roughly $1500/annually. So if you repair your Trotec and it lasts for 2-3 years, you actually saved a good chunk of change.

I'd also ask, do you really need that big of a laser? There are a lot of benefits to a big laser, but you need to really think if you need a $20,000+ laser vs a $8,000 one.

Thats a good point. The laser i have now is 10 years old. Its kind of the old buy a new car or fix the one i have. At some point, you can't keep pouring money into it. Im really just concerned about bed size. the Trotec has a bed of 28x16 and the epilog is 36x24. the smaller epilog that's comparable to my trotec is 24x18. I make custom acrylic cases, so i was hoping I could offer some bigger items with a bigger laser bed, but that may be wishful thinking at this point. I definitely want to up the wattage so i can at least cut 1/4 acrylic. The 25 watt has some major limitations.

Mike Null
09-10-2010, 12:46 PM
Trotec tech support is very helpful. I would call them before making any buying decision.

Martin Boekers
09-10-2010, 1:50 PM
I run 2 Epilog EXT 36 75 watts 6 days a week.

One is 7 years old and the other 3 years old.

Only once had one laser been down more than 24hrs
and that was because I couldn't take the time to
work on it.

After warrenty expenses on the older one total
approx $3000, one tube, X motor, a couple encoder
strips and a belt. Not bad at all!

My business runs on service and turnaround (typically
24 - 48hr) so service and a reliable laser is imperative.

Give me one Epilog over 4 Chinese any day of the week.

Each day I walk through the door I know what I can
expect with Epilog, I'm sure ULS and Trotec owners
feel the same way about theirs.

I would have no qualms about buying a used Epilog to
get started.

I would check with Trotec as others have said to find out
if it is worth repairing. It still should have a trade in value
or I'm sure you could post it and someone would take it
off your hands.:cool:

Marty

Frank Corker
09-10-2010, 4:40 PM
I'm with Larry. A good used brand name rather than a new Chinese laser. The Chinese lasers for some of our members, especially Jim Jaragosky who has mastered his, can work exceptionally well. However they need a lot more attention to detail and a lot of practice to get them to the optimum. Epilog and Universal lasers are a lot more user friendly and even old ones continue to go on working without problems.

It's one of those situations, if you have the money, go for new. If you think it's going to cripple you from the start, then think with your wallet and go for used.

Peter Meacham
09-11-2010, 11:32 PM
Dan

I have sent a PM to you concerning your Speedy 1.

Pete

James Terry
09-12-2010, 12:30 PM
How do the GCC Laser Pros fit into this discussion? Are they Chinese lasers then or do they get to at least be called Taiwan?

Viktor Voroncov
09-13-2010, 8:56 AM
Mike, my previous post do not contain advertising - I just say my opinion about GCC lasers like other peoples before said their opinion about ULS/Epilog/TROTEC. I am not guilty, that my business is connected with GCC :)

Jon Colley
09-13-2010, 10:10 AM
I have a few machines in the field up here in Canada that are that age and all of them are running perfectly. I wouldn't throw the towel in on that one just yet. If you want to PM me or give me a call (I'll PM you back with my number) I can help you out with this. I've been working on these systems since the first Speedy 1's hit the market so I have seen it all on those machines.

BTW, you mentioned about wanting to increase the power to cut 1/4" acrylic. A 25W tube should be able to do this (although slowly) if the optics are in good shape. The sealing around the cover over the end of the tube and first mirror wasn't great on the earlier units, so you should turn off the system, remove the back cover and inspect the output coupler on the laser tube. I think you will find that it is quite dirty. It's hard to reach but if you take a Q-Tip and wrap a lens cleaning wipe over it, you can carefully clean this off.

Mike Null
09-13-2010, 4:29 PM
Viktor

I have read and considered your response. I might see things slightly differently if you'd say GCC Distributor in your signature so people could at least see that you may have a bias.

The Epilog, Universal, and Trotec people do that.

Viktor Voroncov
09-14-2010, 2:44 PM
I have signature "GCC dealer" only because I want explained that I am not an end-user. Most peoples here put in signature name of equipment they have, and it's very helpful. But what I must put in my signature? Sometimes I do not have any equipment :)

Chip Peterson
09-15-2010, 9:46 AM
There's a nice trotec in the classified section right now. Plenty of power and all the accessories and it's almost brand new with the warranty remaining.

Yes there is, and the price dropped! :)

Dan Hintz
09-15-2010, 9:55 AM
Chip,

If I could find an immediate buyer for my ULS, I'd take your Trotec in a heartbeat.

Dee Gallo
09-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Chip, I WISH I needed another laser - yours is a beauty and a good deal!

:) dee

Dan Ashlin
09-15-2010, 12:51 PM
You may be hearing from me soon Chip, I'm still working out the logistics. I think whats really happening is this problem is making me take a long hard look at what i've really gotten myself into. Not that din't do my research before mind you, but I'm getting more of a grip on the meat and potatoes mechanics of the whole thing. Of course, the machines also didn't have these problems when i got them lol.

Jeanette Brewer
09-15-2010, 7:12 PM
I have signature "GCC dealer" only because I want explained that I am not an end-user. Most peoples here put in signature name of equipment they have, and it's very helpful. But what I must put in my signature? Sometimes I do not have any equipment

Don't mean to hijack the thread but to answer the question hanging out there by Viktor, I think most distributors/reps have signatures similar to mine. I don't think it causes much (any?) confusion re: whether I'm an end-user or not.

Viktor Voroncov
09-16-2010, 2:42 AM
Mike :) return my signature :)

Mike Null
09-16-2010, 5:14 AM
Viktor

I don't recall deleting your signature. You can edit your signature.

Chip Peterson
09-16-2010, 11:17 AM
Chip, I WISH I needed another laser - yours is a beauty and a good deal!

:) dee

Wow Dee, I'm flattered! I've admired (mostly in silence) your stuff for a long time. I wish I had your talent. Heck, as long as I'm wishing, I wish you needed a new laser! :)

The "crew" here at SMC is such a great bunch of people!!