EM6000 over a minwax product

[John Gregory]

I started a project using Minwax fast drying poly. So far the insides of the carcasses are done, and the face frames. When I do the doors and draw fronts I would like to spray EM6000 (it is on sale with free UPS shipping) Can I put one coat of the minwax product to get the color on the doors then put two coats of the EM6000 over the minwax? Would EM8000 work any better in this application?
Can I brush either product if spraying is not the best option?

Thanks for your input.

[Dave Gaul]

I'm pretty sure you would need to use a barrier coat of dewaxed shellac between the poly and the Em6000, or anything you want to put over poly.

A few questions though... why poly then EM6000? How is the poly giving you color, is it a tinted/pigmented poly, like minwax's polyshades?

[John Gregory]

I'm pretty sure you would need to use a barrier coat of dewaxed shellac between the poly and the Em6000, or anything you want to put over poly.

A few questions though... why poly then EM6000? How is the poly giving you color, is it a tinted/pigmented poly, like minwax's polyshades?

I want to start using the EM6000 as my standard clear coat. Water clean up is nice. It gets great reviews at SMC, I just got a Earlex 5000 and would rather spray WB finishes. The EM6000 is on sale with free shipping, out the door for $34

The minwax poly has given the red oak a soft golden color. It is solvent clean up. I like to apply three coats, I know that the minwax would have to be the first coat and I would have to use mineral spirits for clean up, but then the next two could be the WB EM6000.

I may be up in the night about this, but I know that I can get some good answers from Creekers.

Thanks

[Prashun Patel]

If you started with Poly, then I'd just continue with that. If you keep your gun or brush refrigerated, you should only have to do clean up once - at the end.

If you must switch to WB, then I'd use a barrier of dw shellac.
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[Dave Gaul]

John, I wasn't questioning the use of EM6000, more so the use of poly. I would try some EM6000 on some scrap and see how you like it.. it may produce a tone you like.

[Prashun Patel]

You can mimic the warm tones that oil imparts with an amber shellac. People swear by BLO, but to my eye (admittedly untrained), amber shellac pops and warms just as well as oil.

I'm a big fan of initial coats of shellac under most film finishes. Results in a more even end product. Also, speeds time to build, and is arguably more economical.

[John Gregory]

You can mimic the warm tones that oil imparts with an amber shellac. People swear by BLO, but to my eye (admittedly untrained), amber shellac pops and warms just as well as oil.

I'm a big fan of initial coats of shellac under most film finishes. Results in a more even end product. Also, speeds time to build, and is arguably more economical.

Thanks, finishing has been a weak point of mine. I hope to do more spraying and experimenting with finishes.

John

[Scott Holmes]

You could also tint the first coat of EM6000

[John Gregory]

Thanks everyone, I am just going to stick with the Minwax on this project. I did order some EM6000 for future projects.

Thanks again for all of the good advice.

[Frederick Rowe]

I'd call Target Coatings to check for compatibility between Minwax and EM6000. If you want to stay with WB products, look at Target's WR4000 stains. While EM6000 can be tinted, the WR4000 is absorbed and produces greater depth than tinted top coats. The WR4000 has contains emulsified linseed oil which in the clear WR4000 cures to a soft amber tone.

Working in cherry I use the WR4000 as my toning agent, then EM6000 as a final coating. I'm working on a project in ash with the ebony WR4000 and the results have been outstanding. Far better depth than early test boards using Trans Tint in water. While I spray, WR4000 can also be applied with rag or brush.

[Howard Acheson]

I would not recommend it unless you first contact Target. I suspect you will have adhesion problems between the oil based poly varnish and the waterborne acrylic.

If all you are concerned about is getting the amber color of the oil based poly, wipe on a coat of boiled linseed oil, let it set for 15 minutes and then wipe it dry. Let it dry another 24 hours and then spray with your waterborne. It's the BLO in oil based poly varnish that imparts the amber color.

Another point is that you will be downgrading the overall finish durability if you over coat an oil based poly with a waterborne. Oil based poly is a more chemical resistant, water resistant and heat resistant finish than a waterborne.

[Frederick Rowe]

Another point is that you will be downgrading the overall finish durability if you over coat an oil based poly with a waterborne. Oil based poly is a more chemical resistant, water resistant and heat resistant finish than a waterborne.WB finishes have been adopted by many industrial and commercial manufacturers that produce products which require high abrasion, UV, chemical, and moisture resistance . The majority were likely by changes in environmental laws, others by choice. The Architectural Woodwork Institute, Cabinet Makers Association, Moulding & Millwork Producers Association, and many other industry groups have embraced WB products.

It may very well be that at the extreme end of the product spectrum that a solvent based polyurethane will have greater performance characteristics than the equivalent WB product - but frankly, at that level of requirement you are past what the performance envelope of virtually anything sold at the retail level. Commercial applications in high wear resistance environments are generally two component epoxy polyurethane coatings which require specific preparation and application.

Target Coatings provided technical data for their polyurethane finish EM9000 show either 4 or 5 for chemical resistance, Konig Hardness of 88, and Tabor Abrasion Resistance of 250. This places it square with any number of solvent based polyurethane coatings designed for high wear applications.

I couldn't find technical performance data on the Minwax web site, so I can't compare it directly to the Target Coatings WB equivalent. But any blanket generalization that oil based polyurethane is tougher than WB polyurethane is unsupported.

The OP is suggesting applying a WB Acrylic Lacquer over a oil/solvent polyurethane coating. I agree that this would be applying a less durable material over the polyurethane. Not because one is oil/solvent and one is WB; it is because one is acrylic and one is polyurethane. The WB over oil/solvent is a question of compatibility, not performance. It would be akin to applying shellac over a varnish. Both fine finishes, but not interchangeable.

It sounds like John is building cabinets, and he's probably committed to oil/solvent based polyurethane finish coating. He's got many options which will give fine results.