Shop Smith Mark 5 vs. Individual tools

[Craig Salyers]

A couple months ago my garage burned down, including all my woodworking tools.

Fortunatley we are well insured and the insurance company is going to give us replacement costs for all the tools lost.

I am a part-time hobbist, but I had acquired a fairly complete set of tools. One of the tools that was lost was a very old Shopsmith Mark 5 that I got from my Father-in-law. Since I already had a table saw and drill press, I only used it as a lathe and disc sander. Since the Mark 5 drill press is larger than my benchtop Delta, I could also see using that on occasion, but the need has never come up.

The insurance company is willing to replace the Mark 5, but they have also given me the option to spend the same amount on individual tools.

Any thoughts on what I should do? A new Mark 5 (http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/ (http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/)) or a lathe and disc sander totaling up to $3,000?

Thanks in advance for your help. I'm sure I will have more questions as i continue to rebuild my shop.

[Mitchell Andrus]

You aren't limited to $3K. Spend the insurance money planning to add tools later to fill in a gaps.

I wouldn't give a Mk 5 space, but I'm in a fairly large shop 8 hrs/day. The first time I need to switch from lathe to drill press to ST and back to lathe again would be the last time.
.

[Bill Bolen]

I've had a shopsmith Mark V since 1981. The SS does many things but none of them as good as a stand alone tool. While I kept the SS I also bought a decent tablesaw, jointer, lathe, ect. Now the SS is mainly used as a buffer but when my benchtop DP is too small the SS fills that void. Go with stand alones for replacement. You will be much happier...Bill...

[Dave Lehnert]

I started on a Shopsmith. I think it is all about space. I have a 3 car garage so I have a shop full of tools. I have a JET cabinet saw and use my shopsmith saw as a Dado set-up. I would not trade off my shopsmith for anything. working with tools like the belt sander with verable speed is a joy.

People like to bash the Shopsmith but if you think of it as a big jig you would be amazed at what all you can do with it beyond the 5 basic tool. It is a tool very capable of doing all you want to do. The change over is something to think about but is not a big deal like some carry on about. You can change to any tool in less than 2 min. In the same time it take to change your belts\speed on a drill press or move out a saw on mobile base. I started on a shopsmith so it is a non-issue for me. but could see an experienced woodworker getting use to it difficult.

You can find good units used for cheap because they are built like a tank. A LOT you see on CL are from the 50's to 70's and still going strong.

Are you aware Shopsmith just this week started shipping the new electronic headstock.
http://www.shopsmith.com/shopsmithpowerpro/index.htm

Video link http://www.shopsmith.com/shopsmithpowerpro/powerpro_video.htm

What I like about Shopsmith is most upgrades are made to up date your machine at home without buying a new unit. How many mfg do that?

Shopsmith is a very small company of around 12 employees in Dayton Ohio. I like the fact that it is a American made tool that has stood the test of time.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

The new SS is available with digital variable speed. Not that I can afford one. As Dave mentioned, used is an option. They are well made as you must know..... Mine still runs, and has a 30 year old belt.

[Peter Parrinello]

The stand alone's I have are great- cabinet saw, DP, plainer etc. Having said that, My Shopsmith will always have a place in my shop.

[Mike Heidrick]

Spend the $3K on new seperates. Add a $200 used MarkV later on. Best of both worlds.

I do like my mark V for sanding.

[Alan Schaffter]

Not to hijack the thread, but it appears Shopsmith made it out of Bankruptcy or actually avoided it? They laid off all their folks and stopped answering phones for awhile last year. Is Folkerth still CEO or does somebody else own it? Whatever happened to the new company he was going to start to avoid the SS problems, JRFShop?

Back to the OP's post- but first I had a SS over 20 years so have experience.

You will find some, near fanatical SS supporters, but more luke warm, many haters. IMHO, and as one person posted, the SS does a lot of things, few of them really well or as well as a standalone tool. Once I had the space I went with individual tools and would never go back. They are very expensive for what you get! The tablesaw is downright scarey and just not good- you must tilt the table for a bevel cut- try doing that with a large panel or long board! Shopsmith came up with work-arounds and add-ons for most of its shortcomings, but that is what they are, just workarounds. And the add-ons can be almost as expensive as a single tool.

A SS is good if you move allot (I was in the Navy) or if you have limited space. Though the changeovers are not too bad, you may come to dislike them- it really forces you carefully plan you project work flow.

If you really think you want one, there are tons of used ones available (why is that?), many more than used Unisaws, etc. They can be had for way under $1000.

[David Woodruff]

I had a fine dissertation written and it disappeared. Now I am tired and not likely repeat the eloquence. In short I have never been impressed with the Shopsmith. I get tired just thinking of the changeovers that would be required. I have 5 major chunks of valuable iron totaling around $35k, do not regret a cent. Total shop cost $$? do not have a clue. I can say that turnings have paid for it more than once or twice plus an ML320 sport.

[Van Huskey]

I am not a SS fan. I prefer tools that do one job exceedingly well not 10 jobs so so. If you loved your SS I would say find one used and add some pieces that you would use most often or need more capacity.

Or you could just buy a mustard monster and be done with it...

[Paul Johnstone]

My initial thought is that you could get an awesome lathe and disc sander for 3k. Especially if you go used. A lot of high end used lathes go for pretty cheap, just because not that many people are willing to spend high $$ on a lathe.. I got a huge Vega lathe with a 48" Vega duplicator and other accessories for $900.

I also got a big disk sander (I think it is 16" diameter) for $75.. The guy selling it did not use it much and wanted the floor space.. Now granted, it is not used often, but it has already "paid" for itself by doing a few things.

I am not trying to turn this into a gloat, but just giving examples that I don't see the need to spend 3k if you are just going to use it for a lathe and disc sander (and maybe drill press).

[Alan Schaffter]

I finally worked my way through the SS site - the new electronic headstock is almost $2000 alone!!! Trade-ins, upgrading an older unit, or DIY installation in an older unit, reduce the cost some. It appears they designed the controller with a lot of nice functions, but you can buy a new, larger 3hp motor and a VFD that does almost as much for A LOT LESS!!!!

I didn't see what a new,complete SS with the electronic headstock costs, but probably at least $3500. The standard, Reeves drive, machine sells for $3100 and a replacement standard headstock sells for $1600

[Gordon Eyre]

If it were me I would definitely go with the stand alone tools.

[Dave Lehnert]

Not to hijack the thread, but it appears Shopsmith made it out of Bankruptcy or actually avoided it? They laid off all their folks and stopped answering phones for awhile last year. Is Folkerth still CEO or does somebody else own it? Whatever happened to the new company he was going to start to avoid the SS problems, JRFShop?

Back to the OP's post- but first I had a SS over 20 years so have experience.

You will find some, near fanatical SS supporters, but more luke warm, many haters. IMHO, and as one person posted, the SS does a lot of things, few of them really well or as well as a standalone tool. Once I had the space I went with individual tools and would never go back. They are very expensive for what you get! The tablesaw is downright scarey and just not good- you must tilt the table for a bevel cut- try doing that with a large panel or long board! Shopsmith came up with work-arounds and add-ons for most of its shortcomings, but that is what they are, just workarounds. And the add-ons can be almost as expensive as a single tool.

A SS is good if you move allot (I was in the Navy) or if you have limited space. Though the changeovers are not too bad, you may come to dislike them- it really forces you carefully plan you project work flow.

If you really think you want one, there are tons of used ones available (why is that?), many more than used Unisaws, etc. They can be had for way under $1000.

The owner of Shopsmith passed away about two years ago. One of the sons is now running it. Was told that Shopsmith inc filed bankruptcy to get out from under a lawsuit from a major brand tool mfg.
Still branded Shopsmith but mfg. by RLF shop. (the owners initials) Robert ? Folkerth. Much like it was back in the 50's mfg. by Magna engineering.

[Dave Lehnert]

I finally worked my way through the SS site - the new electronic headstock is almost $2000 alone!!! Trade-ins, upgrading an older unit, or DIY installation in an older unit, reduce the cost some. It appears they designed the controller with a lot of nice functions, but you can buy a new, larger 3hp motor and a VFD that does almost as much for A LOT LESS!!!!

I didn't see what a new,complete SS with the electronic headstock costs, but probably at least $3500. The standard, Reeves drive, machine sells for $3100 and a replacement standard headstock sells for $1600

A new unit with the electronic headstock is not yet available for sale. The upgrade units were just shipped this week.
Many have made there own electronic units using parts from other machines. Most I have seen has the motor or electronic units mounted outside the headstock. The Shopsmith upgrade is made by Teknatool with the same DVR used in the Nova wood lathe. The upgrade fits 100% inside the Shopsmith headstock. A Nova lathe with the DVR is $2,500 so no, the upgrade is not cheap.
http://www.teknatool.com/products/lathes/dvr/nova%20_dvr.htm

[Ben Martin]

Spend the $3K on new seperates. Add a $200 used MarkV later on. Best of both worlds.

I do like my mark V for sanding.

This, I see used Shopsmiths for cheap all the time...

[Gene Howe]

Having owned a ShopSmith for around 35 years, I can attest to it's durability and usefulness for a hobbyist like myself.
That being said, if I were starting over, I'd go with stand alone machines.

[raul segura]

well, Ive got a super shop Ive had to retool several parts to make it work well.
The best thing about it is the lathe and 12 in. disc sander. It can machine light metals but vibrates to much as a metal lathe. The add on tools are much to expensive compared to a stand alone, Boy due I miss my cheep craftsman table saw ! Ill keep the machine if I ever have more room, but stand alone are the way to go. I have half a garage to work in with every thing I own on wheels and no room or $ left for wood !

It looks like this tool is a redundancy in your shop, Id get that expensive paraphernalia you've been eyeballing for so long. The stuff you wax over and polish.

[Mike Wellner]

I finally worked my way through the SS site - the new electronic headstock is almost $2000 alone!!! Trade-ins, upgrading an older unit, or DIY installation in an older unit, reduce the cost some. It appears they designed the controller with a lot of nice functions, but you can buy a new, larger 3hp motor and a VFD that does almost as much for A LOT LESS!!!!

I didn't see what a new,complete SS with the electronic headstock costs, but probably at least $3500. The standard, Reeves drive, machine sells for $3100 and a replacement standard headstock sells for $1600

Shopsmith is a frame 48 I believe. Impossible to find a 2 to 3 hp motor in that size!

[Alan Schaffter]

Shopsmith is a frame 48 I believe. Impossible to find a 2 to 3 hp motor in that size!

A different frame never stopped me from mounting a motor. Might need to fabricate a new lower motor housing and it would certainly be a Frankensmith, but could be done. Bottom line, if indeed the motor is variable reluctance DVR motor by NOVA, Shopsmith is asking a lot of money for it.

[Stephen Cherry]

For the lathe functionality, I recommend the delta 1460 lathe. Upgrade with a 150 dollar vfd, and an el cheapo three phase motor, and you will be ready for a while to come. I think that you would need to spend a lot more money to get much better performance. (unless you like big bowls, then you would just need to spend the money)

The only problem with these machines, in my opinion, is the XXX XXXXs (expletive deleted) who buy them and sell them as parts on fleabay. They are worth more dead than alive.

Once speculators or collectors involve themselves in anything, it's all over.

[John Carlo]

Built a lot of furniture with it but had separate jointer and planer. I would look at getting a decent table saw and the Griz combo 12" planer/jointer if space and the budget won't allow separates. With those three tools you can do most anything.

[Alan Schaffter]

For the lathe functionality, I recommend the delta 1460 lathe. Upgrade with a 150 dollar vfd, and an el cheapo three phase motor, and you will be ready for a while to come. I think that you would need to spend a lot more money to get much better performance. (unless you like big bowls, then you would just need to spend the money)

The only problem with these machines, in my opinion, is the XXX XXXXs (expletive deleted) who buy them and sell them as parts on fleabay. They are worth more dead than alive.

Once speculators or collectors involve themselves in anything, it's all over.

Like this? :D

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/Lathe-3.JPG

[jackie gates]

About 35 years ago I bought all of the shopsmith tools and the accessories. Even as a hobbyist I got tried of the conversions, although it only took a few minutes.
I bought the stands and motors, for each tool. With that, working was better, but not really enjoyable. I still have all of it, but the wear and tear have taken their toll. Now I prefer other brands of single purpose machines. Take the $3000 and go with good quality single purpose machines. You will be IMO ahead of the game.