How to supercharge your band saw??

[Thomas Delpizzo]

Louis Iturra has a section in his catalog on "supercharging your band saw", specifically a Delta 14". One of the items he has is a larger pulley wheel which will increase the speed of the blade. He claims the increased speed will improve your cutting, especially resawing, leaving a smoother cut with less "washboarding" . Has anyone tried this? Is it recommended? Can you do this on any 14" saw?

[Van Huskey]

You might well be able to do it to your Griz, BUT I think money is better spent on a top flight resaw blade and possibly some other things before that. I think the biggest difference you will make in a 14" cast clone is high quality blades, but they aren't cheap but the bi-metal and carbide blades last a LOT longer.

[Richard McComas]

Louis Iturra has a section in his catalog on "supercharging your band saw", specifically a Delta 14". One of the items he has is a larger pulley wheel which will increase the speed of the blade. He claims the increased speed will improve your cutting, especially resawing, leaving a smoother cut with less "washboarding" . Has anyone tried this? Is it recommended? Can you do this on any 14" saw? LOL, reminds me of several years ago when I had a delta 14'' band saw. I was going to "supercharge" it. I change the pulleys, turned it on and the centrifugal force cause the upper wheel tire to lift off the wheel and it caught on something. Made a heck of a noise, scared the crap out of me and I had to buy a new tire.

[Curt Harms]

Louis Iturra has a section in his catalog on "supercharging your band saw", specifically a Delta 14". One of the items he has is a larger pulley wheel which will increase the speed of the blade. He claims the increased speed will improve your cutting, especially resawing, leaving a smoother cut with less "washboarding" . Has anyone tried this? Is it recommended? Can you do this on any 14" saw?

A slower feed rate will accomplish the same thing, and it's cheaper :). I'd also be concerned about the motor having enough torque at the higher blade speed. Try this--resaw a piece a couple feet long. Feed the first foot at your normal rate, then feed the second foot at a slower rate, maybe 1/2 or 2/3 the rate. I can notice the difference. There's still "washboarding" but mine is noticeably less and less has to be sanded off. I'd like to try a blade like the carbide tipped bandsaw blades that don't have any set but I don't know of one that would work on 14" saws. I suspect the set of the teeth contributes to the cut roughness.

[glenn bradley]

I'm with Curt. If I want more cuts per inch, I just slow my feed rate.

[Ryan Hellmer]

Speeding up the saw will do something (somethings good and somethings bad). I agree that the best medicine is a well tuned saw and a nice blade. Speed isn't always what it's cracked up to be. Notice that most 14" saws are designed to run at about 3000 fpm, good resaws can run 5000-7000 and there are even some saws (Tannewitz GH) that run upwards of 8000 fpm. Now that's just moving. The key here is that a 10% increase in your blade speed probably isn't going to get you a whole lot, and a 50% increase is going to put a lot more stress on your machine (bearings, frame, motor, blade, guides, etc.). I would also be worried about more blade breakage. In the sawmill business we know that there's only so many times you can bend a blade around the wheels, the smaller the wheels (like 14") the more stress you put on the band everytime it goes around, the quicker it breaks.

Long story short, I think there's a reason these 14" saws have remained substantially unchanged for almost 60 years. I don't think "supercharging" is the answer.

Ryan

[Will Overton]

LOL, reminds me of several years ago when I had a delta 14'' band saw. I was going to "supercharge" it. I change the pulleys, turned it on and the centrifugal force cause the upper wheel tire to lift off the wheel and it caught on something. Made a heck of a noise, scared the crap out of me and I had to buy a new tire.

How could the upper wheel tire fly off with a blade on it? Without a blade, doesn't the upper wheel just sit there? :confused:

[Jim Rimmer]

I am at work and don't have the document with me but I believe I read in the Suffolk Machinery (Timberwolf blades) paperwork they send out with blades that the blades are designed to run at 3000 to 3500 fpm. Would higher speed mean shorter blade life or quick breakage?

[Kirk Poore]

Isn't "washboarding" caused by left/right variations in the tooth position over the course of the cut? This would come from out-of-round wheels (maybe due to debris on the tires or poor crowning) combined with a slight amount of extra room between the guides,or deflection caused by a bad weld, or a twist in the blade over it's length, or kinks in the blade, or variations in the tooth set.

Slowing the feed rate or speeding up the blade will mean the blade will tend to cut a wider kerf at any one location as the teeth oscillate right and left faster. The root cause is not addressed.

If I were concerned with this, I'd clean my wheels, check my guides, check my blade for twists or kinks or a bad weld, and then if it's still a problem maybe lightly stone the sides of the blade to even out the set. If necessary after that, recrown the tires or get new ones and crown them right.

Or just walk over to the jointer or sander and get rid of the marks. Bandsaws aren't meant for glue-line rips.

Kirk

[Van Huskey]

In the sawmill business we know that there's only so many times you can bend a blade around the wheels, the smaller the wheels (like 14") the more stress you put on the band everytime it goes around, the quicker it breaks.




Absolutely, and it becomes more of an issue when you are trying to "cheat" and run carbide blades on a small wheeled (under 20") machine. Anything that further restricts my ability to use a good carbide resaw blade on any bandsaw is a non-starter for me.

[Richard McComas]

[QUOTE=Will Overton;1509176]How could the upper wheel tire fly off with a blade on it? Without a blade, doesn't the upper wheel just sit there? :confused:[/QUOTE


I don't know what to tell you but I have no reason to make up stories.

when I started up the band saw the tire somehow lifted off the wheel and caught on the door retainer clip.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/doorretainerclip.jpg

[Howard Skillington]

I didn't try "supercharging," but did overhaul my Dad's old 14" Delta last year with Louis Iturra's help. I found his catalogue, read cover-to-cover, to be as valuable as Mark Duginske's book. Louis was patient, clear, and completely knowledgeable when I called him two or three times for clarification and advice, and all of the bearings, tires, springs, etc I purchased from him have been highly satisfactory. Good man - I recommend doing business with him.

(wish he'd get a website, though)

[Van Huskey]

First let me say Louis Iturra has forgotten more about bandsaws particularly Delta 14"ers and their clones than I will ever know but,...


I was stuck driving 3 hours this morning and was thinking about this post and it seems one would be trying to do one of three things by "supercharging"

1. increase resaw speed

2. increase rip speed

3. increase quality of the cut


The quality of cut I am not sure would be increased simply by increased band speed and better addressed through tuning, blades etc.

If rip speed is what you are after put a 20T WWII from Forrest in your table saw and rip like a dragster.

If resaw speed is what you are after I don't think you are gonna get it on a lightweight 14" saw by increasing blade speed. If you use pulleys to increase the wheel speed you are decreasing the torque to the wheel since you reduce the torque multiplication of the larger wheel pulley. This might work on a big saw with a 5+ hp motor but might actually reduce the resaw speed on a smaller saw with minamal HP in tall stock.

Just like Timberwolf's low tension claim for their band I have not seen a resonable explanation nor can I think of one to support the claim of increased band speed on a 14" saw being of any positive use. The extra strain on bearings/motor et al along with increased fatigue on the bands seem like false economy, plus you also enter an arena where a voiding of the warranty is probably valid for most any moving part on the saw including the motor once the pulley size is changed.

[Van Huskey]

I don't know what to tell you but I have no reason to make up stories.

when I started up the band saw the tire somehow lifted off the wheel and caught on the door retainer clip.



I don't think Will was calling BS, I think he is just confused, as I am, why/how the upper was moving if there was no blade on the saw, normally the top wheel would just sit there static as it has no connection to the motor without a band on the saw. When I read it I just assumed you mis-spoke and meant it occured on the lower wheel.

[Phil Thien]

I don't think Will was calling BS, I think he is just confused, as I am, why/how the upper was moving if there was no blade on the saw, normally the top wheel would just sit there static as it has no connection to the motor without a band on the saw. When I read it I just assumed you mis-spoke and meant it occured on the lower wheel.

He didn't say there was no blade on the saw.

The blade onto holds the tires on the top of the top wheel. The bottom of the tire is not supported.

And yes, centrifugal force will cause a lose and/or unglued band to lift several inches from the wheel in spots. I have witnessed this first-hand with a small Inca bandsaw.

It created an odd snapping sound and when I was able to observe with the door open I could see the tire lifting from the wheel quite a bit. A couple of times it did start to come off.

I finally glued the tire down using elephant snot.

[ian maybury]

As you get into bigger and better quality bandsaws the cutting speed tends to get higher too - the big Italian models run from up to about 1,300 to 1,800m/min. (5900 ft/min) Hobby/DIY machines seem to lurk either side of 1,000 - depending on the level at which they are pitched.

Wood seems to cut quite happily over a very wide range of speeds, so i think the constraints are mostly to do with engineering and economics. Work requirements also - what's OK on small pieces is going to feel pretty abysmally slow when trying to re-saw 14in+ deep hardwood - but then a smaller machine isn't going to be asked to do that.

At the most basic level the HP required increases more or less in proportion to blade speed. So as some have said if you want to run faster on an existing saw you need spare HP. Given that the price points are so tightly defined, especially at the lower end it seems likely that cost is one big factor determining on speed - at least up to the point where increasing it further ceases to be of any advantage.

Other subtler issues probably arise too - like wheel balance at higher rpm, vibration, noise, blade wear rate etc.

Power consumption has the potential to go crazy with a blunt blade, or if a blade is ideal for the job and can't properly clear sawdust - so what looks like spare power is almost certainly there for a reason. It's likely the makers don't like to sail too close to the wind given that many users probably unknowingly abuse their saws in this way....

[george wilson]

When I first got my old 14" Delta in 1964,I put on a large repulsion-induction motor that I'd gotten cheap. It started up my saw so fast that the lower tire grew about 2" in diameter,and flew off !!!

I got a smaller motor for it. I was only about 22,and not as experienced back then.

I would think that making a bandsaw run very fast would shorten blade life. Maybe not,if some industrial saws do it. I can saw the hardest tropical wood 12" thick on mine,perfectly straight and even. Once sawed a 12" thick piece of genuine Cuban mahogany,hard as ebony,and made a very even 1/16" piece of veneer for restoring an 18th.C. grandfather clock. This was done with a new Lennox 1/4",6 tpi. blade. Also,I've resawed many a piece of Brazilian rosewood with it. And,the rosewood has to be over 8" thick to make a 2 piece back for a 17" wide guitar. I have always had to be very frugal in not wasting Brazilian,so the cuts had to be as true and accurate as possible.

Technique is very important when using a bandsaw. Learning how to feel how fast the saw wants to cut is important. That,plus a new,sharp blade can d excellent work. I recommend practicing with the saw,and being sensitive to the feedback it is giving you.

P.S.,The motor I have always had on my 14" saw is a heavy duty old 3/4 H.P. motor(after the initial motor that threw the tire.) Now all of you will be thinking I lie!!! But,I'm not.:)

[Chip Lindley]

LOL, reminds me of several years ago when I had a delta 14'' band saw. I was going to "supercharge" it. I change the pulleys, turned it on and the centrifugal force cause the upper wheel tire to lift off the wheel and it caught on something. Made a heck of a noise, scared the crap out of me and I had to buy a new tire.


How could the upper wheel tire fly off with a blade on it? Without a blade, doesn't the upper wheel just sit there? :confused:

Will, you take it upon yourself to infer that the BS was being run without a blade mounted. Nowhere does Richard say this. I inferred just the opposite; a blade certainly had to be mounted for the upper tire to self-destruct.

[Van Huskey]

He didn't say there was no blade on the saw.

The blade onto holds the tires on the top of the top wheel. The bottom of the tire is not supported.

And yes, centrifugal force will cause a lose and/or unglued band to lift several inches from the wheel in spots. I have witnessed this first-hand with a small Inca bandsaw.

It created an odd snapping sound and when I was able to observe with the door open I could see the tire lifting from the wheel quite a bit. A couple of times it did start to come off.

I finally glued the tire down using elephant snot.

You are absolutely correct, he did not say there was no blade on the saw, and I assumed there wasn't, at the time I read it initially I just envisioned the tire expanding on the bottom wheel, on a bladeless saw. Will may have done the same, I also assumed, may be wrong there as well, that Will wasn't saying he was a lier just that he didn't understand how it would happen given how he saw it in his mind when he read the post.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I don't buy the notion that increasing blade speed will improve anything. It is far more likely to overload and go out of column, resulting in uneven cuts (concave/convex), overheating and washboarding. To avoid this you would then have to slow down your feed rate. I have the 6" riser in mine, all the aftermarket goodies and I do primarily veneering, cutting perfect 8" x 1/16" veneers in tropical hardwood using a 2-3 tpi blade. But to get fine cuts I have to go very slow, finding just the right feed rate for each type of wood.

I have the 1.5 hp motor and I've never had a problem bogging down. I agree with George, learning to use a band saw is an art, and the one thing I must never do is to push it. You learn the correct feed rate by "feel" for whether its cutting easy or it is "working hard". I orginally thought the Delta 14 would be a "starter" saw for me and that I'd move up to something better. Yet I now have this ancient machine working so well that there is no need for an "upgrade" as you cannot improve what is already working perfectly.

And as George points out, you go to a bigger saw, you got thicker blades, bigger kerfs and more wastage. And when you are cutting wood that costs $50/ft that gets expensive, so the much maligned old delta remains in my shop.

[Van Huskey]

And as George points out, you go to a bigger saw, you got thicker blades, bigger kerfs and more wastage. And when you are cutting wood that costs $50/ft that gets expensive, so the much maligned old delta remains in my shop.

I think George pointed out you need to be accurate to prevent waste which is very true as opposed to using thicker blades on a bigger saw, since there is no reason you have to use thicker blades. A well tuned large wheel saw would have no problem tracking a .016" kerf 5/8" hardened spring steel blade, which is the thinnest kerf BS band I am aware of for resawing.

Also, don't feel like the Delta 14" is a maligned saw since it is not, it is a well respected close to 80 year old design that was right then and right now. The fact is those saws will handle anything that will fit in them fine, but for some tasks you will need a high level of patience and skill.

[Will Overton]

Will, you take it upon yourself to infer that the BS was being run without a blade mounted. Nowhere does Richard say this. I inferred just the opposite; a blade certainly had to be mounted for the upper tire to self-destruct.

I wasn't inferring anything. I said, with a blade on the blade should hold the tire, and without a blade the "upper" wheel wouldn't be turning.

I pointed out what I thought would happen with or without a blade.

You can infer whatever you want from that. ;)

[Van Huskey]

with a blade on the blade should hold the tire, ;)

My mind went to the same place immediately, however it does not hold the bottom of the tire on the top wheel, which makes perfect sense when he pointed out what it caught on.

I was the only one that actually assumed there was no blade on the saw.

[Will Overton]

however it does not hold the bottom of the tire on the top wheel

That's the part that never crossed my mind ... Thanks.

[Myk Rian]

Even with 1hp on it, I had motor slow-down on many resaws with my 2002 Delta 14" I was going to put a 2hp motor on it, but sold the saw when I replaced it with a 1966 metal-wood model. Now I might put the 2hp on that one.