A milling machine or mill/drill for woodworking

[Andrew Joiner]

What would be the advantages to using a mill/drill as woodworking drill press?
I was looking at the Grizzly G1005Z Mill/Drill VS any drill press I can find with minimal runout or quill slop.

Wouldn't a mill would have less runout and drill more accurate holes than a drill press?

It could make a great slot mortiser. You'd have to swivel the head to mortise the end of long stock for floating tenons.
Some might say the RPM is to low to run router bits. I'm hoping Bruce Page will add his experience here.

Any disadvantages ?

[Richard Bell CA]

Andrew:

Check out this thread for a little more info:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=118720&highlight=mill+drill

[pat warner]

Mill maybe 5x heavier than the drill but with more apps.
And with more apps comes more complicated fixturing and lengthier set up time.
Cheap (west of 135th longitude) oe expen$ive mills, of course, can do double duty in metal, a big plus.
A mill is far more accurate than a cheap drill if that is what you want but not a drop-in for clamping up wood for sizing or morticing. And they run slow for router apps.

[Bruce Page]

Andrew, I don’t do a lot of wood cutting on my mill but I can say that it excels at mortise & tenon cutting. I also use it for making unique cuts that I would be uneasy doing on the table saw or router table. My mill’s primary use is for making tools for the shop and pretty much whatever I want or need. Here’s a little plunge base (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29281)that I made a few years ago. There are several posts in the thread talking about getting a mill.
I can’t speak to the accuracy of the Grizzly bench mill but I have used a few industrial grade bench mills and always considered them a compromise to a full fledged milling machine. Another thing to consider is the price of tooling. If you wince at the price of router bits you will cringe at the price of larger end mills, rotary tables, vices, etc.

If you are really bored take a video tour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l9WxC-kJUs) of my shop. You will see a few accessories that I have made. Comments are welcome. :)

[Alex Kuzn]

If you have to choose between the two a mill/drill is the only way to go.
A crummy mill/drill gives you a whole lot of possibilities that you just don't have even with a high quality drill press. Not to mention that a mill/drill will be more precise and vibration free for plain drilling too.
As for lower RPM you can later upgrade your motor/pulleys or even go with VFD.
I would say that you give up some convenience but get a lot of new possibilities for your craftsmanship.

If tomorrow you find out that your rich uncle died and left you millions get a 20" floor drill press AND a full size milling machine. :cool:

[george wilson]

My Bridgeport size mill routs just fine with about 2700 top rpm. It gets away with it because it is exceedingly rigid. Makes perfectly clean mortises.

I'm glad that using a mill for woodworking is finally catching on. I've been doing it for decades.

[Peter Quinn]

I use an old bridgeport knee mill at work for lots of wood working stuff. It is in a wood shop, it does occasional metal and plastic machining for jigs and other tooling, but it also gets a lot of use as a slot mortiser, it spins router bits occasionally, and it is one hell of a drill press. Not many drill presses even come close to a decent knee mill in terms of accuracy and adjustability. The vice and XY tables with digital read out are great where real precision is necessary. The stops are first rate, and the table height adjustment is far superior to most drill press set ups. I see old bridgeport mills for sale in the $900-$3000 range pretty regularly, all 3 Phase. If you have the capacity to move and place a machine that heavy it might be a great option. I'd have one for sure if I could get it in my basement shop! Its the one machine guys with their own shops at home come in to use on the weekends other than a wide belt. Once you have one at your disposal you will wonder how you survived without it.

Bruce, great shop. Is that a mill in a basement? Walk in or did you drop it in with a crane?:D

[Andrew Joiner]

Thanks for the replies. Beautiful plunge base and shop Bruce.

My next step is to see a mill/drill in person. A knee mill may be overkill for me.

[Van Huskey]

I understand the quality of a mill BUT what function do you need a mill for in wood that a good quality DP won't do. I know there are applications just curious what you plan to do.

[Chris Parks]

The one thing a mill is built for is side loads on the tool. Do that on a drill press and you are asking for issues if you intend to drill accurate holes with it. I see sanding devices for drill presses and I wonder how many DP's have been wrecked by using them. Mind you if you can buy a cheap DP and dedicate it to that use then it is a big so what.

[Andrew Joiner]

I understand the quality of a mill BUT what function do you need a mill for in wood that a good quality DP won't do. I know there are applications just curious what you plan to do.

I have a radial drill press that has a lot of runout. It works for most holes I drill but I want a more precise machine. I would keep the current drill press and get a mill/drill or a drill press with no runout.

[Shiraz Balolia]

I have used a vertical milling machine for woodworking for over 20 years. You can do some very complex things with it, very easily. The best part is that your hands are out of harm's way on a mill.

Attached is a link to a clock I built about 15 years ago. Still hangs in one of the conference rooms here at work.


http://clockmaking.com/

[Will Blick]

Shiraz..... do you think the next logical step integrating metal working machines into woodworking, is multi - use CNC mills? A CNC is capable of automating so much which is laborious with a manual mill manually.

I am surprised CNC milling has not proliferated in the past 5 years, specially in the <$10k price range, mid size mills for metal / wood? thoughts?

[Will Blick]

Chris, good point regarding side loads.

Palmgren makes metal working drill presses. When I bought my drill press, I looked for a side load capable machine.... Palmgren says their drill presses are designed for side loads for milling alum or lighter steels. This is just what I needed... just add a milling vise...so far, its worked out well for me....but makes me yearn for more !

[Andrew Joiner]

I have used a vertical milling machine for woodworking for over 20 years. You can do some very complex things with it, very easily. The best part is that your hands are out of harm's way on a mill.

Attached is a link to a clock I built about 15 years ago. Still hangs in one of the conference rooms here at work.


http://clockmaking.com/

Thanks Shiraz,
Your Wood Mill is a dream machine for me. Thanks for posting the clock photo's too.

[David G Baker]

I vote for a mill. I have a tool room mill that is made by Bridgeport and I love it. I use it for many things both metal working as well as some woodworking. It is a lot smaller than a standard Bridgeport mill and on occasion I wish I had a full size mill but can't justify the cost to use ratio. I also have three drill presses that I have set up for specific jobs. One I use for slug cutting cutters, one for wood and one for general work both metal and wood. For accurate and repetitive drilling I use the mill. Once in a while oil is a problem but if I keep things clean it is not.

[Alex Kuzn]

Chris, good point regarding side loads.

Palmgren makes metal working drill presses. When I bought my drill press, I looked for a side load capable machine.... Palmgren says their drill presses are designed for side loads for milling alum or lighter steels. This is just what I needed... just add a milling vise...so far, its worked out well for me....but makes me yearn for more !

Did you get that in writing from Palmgren? I bet it was a sales person who told you that.
If a Drill Presses is designed for side loads for light milling it is called Mill/Drill :)
I am pretty sure any machine called Drill Press is not designed for side loads.

[Bruce Page]

OK, here’s some wood milling. All of the blind mortise & tenon joinery, along with all the stopped dados, through tenon and shelf pin holes were done using my mill. Even the 16 square peg holes in the doors were done on the mill.
Of course this can all be done using conventional wood working machine tools or even done using neander style tools, but, I know that I couldn’t do it as easily or as accurately that way. After all, I was a machinist before I was a woodworker so that is how my mind works. It is a curse and a blessing…

[ray hampton]

I have used a vertical milling machine for woodworking for over 20 years. You can do some very complex things with it, very easily. The best part is that your hands are out of harm's way on a mill.

Attached is a link to a clock I built about 15 years ago. Still hangs in one of the conference rooms here at work.


http://clockmaking.com/



nice clock, I want to borrow your idea for the frame for a electric clock of mine that need a new housing

[James Malcolm]

I have a Grizzly G7948 20" drill press, H7979 cross sliding table and one of their $25 6" DP vises. I wanted mill functionality for drill press cost. Total cost is darn close to one of their bench mills. I'm using their TiN 2 flute end mills (<$5 ea) and thus far it has worked pretty well. 1/4" through 3/4" pine in 1 pass, did two in 3/4" maple, never tried doing it in one. The most difficult part is maintaining a consistant feed rate. Part of it is the quality of slide table I got, but I knew what I was getting for $100. 2nd problem is common to any of this type: the handles are too close to the work piece, especially if you have a table.

One nice thing about a mill is ease of repeating setups. Every time you change height on a DP you loose any setup you had. On a mill you can always come back to exactly the same spot (much easier w/ digital but you can do it manually). With the slide table it is easy enough to restore a setup using an edge finder and setup blocks, but with just an add-on table, I think trying to swing the table to realign it will be difficult. Luckily you don't have to be square to the drill, just know your distance(s). I don't think I could clamp a table in the vice but still be able to use the vice without changing setups. Maybe for 75%+ of the time it would work but not all the time. Best method I can come up with is having a pin in the chuck and a socket in a setup piece then double check it with a pointed tip edge finder. Problem is being able to move the quill down with enough control to use the edge finder like this. All depends how accurate you need to be.

Which brings up another point. On some drill presses you may not be able to lock the quill height. On mine, the stationary height indicator is an angle bracket that goes around a bolt which moves up and down with the quill. I just put a nut on the other side of the bracket from those needed for depth stop and now I can lock the quill height by tightening the nuts around this bracket. Some may not have this type though it shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate something. This works acceptable well. See below about flutting.

Overall it works fine for slots, mortises, hinge recesses, etc. I don't know how well it would work for cutting face flutting or similar. I tried this once with a low end router and could never do it consitantly without getting waviness due to the bit unloading at the end of a cut. As I said maintaining consistant feed speed is difficult, so you may end up with a scalloped look from certain angles. That and the depth stop not being very rigid. I may try it and report back. But it works perfectly fine for slots and mortises that aren't an aesthetic feature. The quality of slide will greatly affect ease of use. I know that I always have to come up the same direction on a measurement because otherwise it will be visably off due to the slack in the leadscrew. Higher price version will be better. If I'm bored sometime I may readjust the dovetails and align the leadscrew to see if I can make it any better. One the model I have, the adjustment screws are easily accessible, but there's no way to take out leadscrew slop, so if it's a concern get a ball screw or similar instead of just an ACME style thread like this one has.

As others have mentioned, the cost of tooling will about put you on the floor. I did pick up a auto-reversing tapping head that works for up to 1/4" for $50 off E-bay, NOS, still in the packing grease. They may still be there if anyone is interested.

If I had the money I would get one of Grizzly's G0520 drill presses with build in slide tables and auto-feed. If I had the money and space I would get a full size mill. I need more than 15-20" of maximum distance from table to chuck, so for <$1000, it was the only option.

[Will Blick]

Alex, I never got the message in writing.... I spoke to tech support and they advised me long after I purchased the drill that it is rigid enough to do lite milling.. basically nothing more than Alum. It works fine, and runout is still less than the tolerance of .0005"....

It is a heavy duty metal drill press, but I do agree, if the intended purpose is milling, you buy a mill, not a drill press. I mill a few times a year, and this is a good solution, can't own the perfect or ideal tool for every application...