Power Tools used by Neanderthals

[John Bailey]

Being new to the "Creek," I may not be asking this question in the correct forum. However, I build mountain dulcimers, small boats and kayak paddles. I have never had a real shop. I have mostly used hand tools, and plan, in general to keep doing so because I enjoy it. I'm building a shop and would like to put a few power tools in it to make my hobby more enjoyable. My question is, what power tools do most Neanderthals have in their shop? I would guess there are some. Again, this could be the wrong fourm for this, I'm sure you'll let me know.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Very few if any of us here are strict constructionalist hand tool users. Most have at least some electron powered stuff whether we admit it or not. The general concensus of most Galoots I've known over the years is that the single most common and useful stationary power tool is the band saw. Not only does it cut curves and odd shapes, but it is useful for resawing to make thin stock and veneers and is quite useful in ripping stock lengthwise. A somewhat less useful and powerful alternative is one of the larger hand held jigsaws which can do most of the same stuff with the exception of resawing. The other tools that is nice (if you're so inclined) is a lathe. Great for custom dowels, tool handles, and a host of other uses.

I'd guess that we all have our favorites and if you asked 10 woodworkers, you'd get 20 opinions.

[Roger Myers]

John,

Welcome - Dave beat me to the punch only because I was interupted by a phone call...I had my reply half written:)

I would hate to be without my bandsaw as I do almost all my ripping on it as well as resawing thin stock, and neither of these tasks has a lot of appeal in doing them the neander way, although I can and have done it... A lathe, because I don't want to turn on a spindle or treadle lathe... A jointer because it speeds stock preparation and simply does a better job than I can do with a number 7.
As Dave said...not too many purists, and I equate it to my fly fishing... I love to fish with hand tyed flies...but if the fish are only taking worms, and I want to eat, I'll throw worms at them!
Roger

[Steve Wargo]

A Band Saw, Thickness planer, lathe, router (but never for moulding), and cordless drill. I use the bandsaw more than anything else, and have the thickness planer simply because it saves a ton of money for me.

[Roy Wall]

Agree totally with others....

the Band Saw is a great tool.........

I also have a drill press and table saw--- but the band saw is the "GO TO"!!!!

[Tom LaRussa]

My question is, what power tools do most Neanderthals have in their shop?
I wouldn't really call myself a "neander" if it weren't for the fact that the label goes with the forum. I consider myself a "Krenovian" -- after James Krenov -- in that I prefer to use whatever tool does the best job at a given task.

So I tend to use power tools for stock preparation & sizing, plus lots of utility work, such as making jigs and grinding some of my own tools. I use hand tools for the things that really matter, i.e., detail work, fit, finish, and the like.

Here is a list of my major wood working power tools, in rough order of how often each tool is used (for working wood as opposed to metal):

band saw
planer
jointer
drill press
table saw
bench belt/disc sander
baby lathe (pen size)
router (table mounted)
compound miter saw (never use, except as a metal cutting chop saw)

I also have a bench grinder, which, along with the bench belt/disc sander, I use almost daily lately, as I am in the middle of grinding my own chisels from tool steel.

Under construction: Combination horizontal mortiser/lathe.

[Tom LaRussa]

I build mountain dulcimers
John,

I beg your pardon if this sounds like a stupid question, but what's a dulcimer?

[Jerry Palmer]

I consider myself an evolved neander. I evolved from being a nearly total tailed tool user to a mixed tool shop which burns up fewer electrons as time goes by. I find myself reaching for non-tailed tools more often than walking across my garage shop to flip a switch. So I've basically got all of the tailed tools you would find in a total tailed shop, but some have become storage for handtools and partially completed projects.

[Dan Clermont in Burnaby]

I bought a mitre saw, jigsaw and router before I got my first hand tool. The router annoys me so it doesn't see much use.

After learning how to sharpen edge tools I went almost full neander but now have purchased a Laguna 14" Bandsaw which I use for ripping and thicknessing.

For the most part I do my rough dimensioning with that bandsaw and finishing dimensioning with hand tools.

Dan Clermont

[Maurice Ungaro]

John,

I beg your pardon if this sounds like a stupid question, but what's a dulcimer?Tom....you're not from any state bordering the Appalachian Mts..are you? A dulcimer is a stringed instrument that is relatively flat, somewhat hour glass shaped, and played across the lap.

I'm no expert, but that's what I've observed, growing up in Kentucky.
For the puposes of this thread, I started out totally a neander, making my workbench all by hand. The ideas and principles appealed to me, as I had my "workshop" in the enclosed back porch/laundry room/reloading bench area. My first power tool was a router. After that I bought a contractor style table saw. After that, i bought a drill press (I think i went overboard on that one - it's the Delta 17-968). My wife bought me a band saw for Christmas.
I also bought a thickness planer because it was rediculously cheap on sale at Lowe's. I bought a Dust Collector, after the Table Saw, because...well...you need one.

I would like to say that I'm done buying dedicated corded tools....but never say never. My ideal still remains that the predominance of work will be designed by me, and done by hand. We'll see....I'm still learning, and hope never to stop.

Maurice

[Tony Zaffuto]

I guess I would reply that I'm also subscribe to the Krenov theory of using whatever tool does the best job in the least time. Although I enjoy my handsaws, I used old Mr. Tablesaw for ripping the QS white oak for the table i'm currently completing.

Having said that, I would also say it is very important to learn your tools and this means not only how to use them but how to maintain them.

[Aaron Kline]

All I have is a thickness planer and I use a miter saw and sander that are my dad's. I used to have a router table, but it made me mad and I switched to hand tools. Ripping, crosscutting, jointing, smoothing, rabbeting, molding and grooving(soon this week you'll see the mahogany plow:cool: ) are all done by hand. I'd like to get some card scrapers to oust the use of the sander.

[Tom LaRussa]

I'd like to get some card scrapers to oust the use of the sander.
Aaron,

Scrapers are the easiest tool to make on the planet. For example, I had a Marples pull saw with a ruined blade, so I just chopped the blade up into a couple rectagular pieces, sanded the edges down and voila! I now have two card scrapers where I used to have a piece of junk.

[John Bailey]

Maurice described a ducimer pretty well. I'll see if I can figure out how to post pictures. My first attempts making dulcimers were entirely done by hand except resawing thin pieces on a 40 yr. old J.C. Penney's table saw. I have progressed to having a friend resaw thin boards on his bandsaw and then sanding them to thickness using a sanding drum attachment on a radial arm saw. The rest is done by hand. I'm looking at, at least, a band saw, and possibly a planer and jointer. The bandsaw seems to interest me, but, after that, the only thing that churns my blood is dreaming of some quality handtools. Draw knifes, planes, spokeshaves and the like. I've got a small collection, but none of them quality. Where do you guys buy your quality hand tools?

John

[Keith Christopher]

I have a full set of tailed tools, TS, BS, routers, planers sanders. . . But I typically use them to rough out the stock and finish and fit with hand tools. I use my TS most for ripping, I seem somehow unable to cut a straight line when hand ripping stock. but the amount of hand tools varies depending on the project. I only hand sand where I need to because I -like most- hate sanding but it is so necessary. but hand sanding large pieces just annoys me so I get my random orbital almost everytime. Oh and I recently bought a HC mortiser, I still cut many by hand but if they're larger or there is a zillion of them I use the HCM. you still have to dress up the mortises from the HCM by hand but it is a time saver.

[Pam Niedermayer]

If you use finishing/polishing planes and scrapers, you never have to do hand sanding of the wood. I do use a ROS for sanding the finish on occasion.

Pam

[Steve Jenkins]

I think to find the answer to your question you need to look at the various operations you go through when building your dulcimers or anything else. Look at what parts you enjoy doing and those that are just drudgery. Can a power tool increase your pleasure in parts of the work or maybe better to say decrease your displeasure.
If you are doing this for a hobby or a business will skew the way you look at things too. Will a power tool increase speed without decreasing the quality of the piece and the satisfaction you get from making it.
I think there is no universal answer, it's more a matter of looking at what you like to do and using power to help with the things that are not so enjoyable.

[John Bailey]

Seems like alot of you guys use a bandsaw. A BS was going to be my first purchase, and that's been confirmed. I was going with a 14" because I don't want overkill. I want to rely on the handtools alot. However, to resaw stock, now I'm leaning toward a bit larger BS. What say you all? What do you use

[Tom LaRussa]

Seems like alot of you guys use a bandsaw. A BS was going to be my first purchase, and that's been confirmed. I was going with a 14" because I don't want overkill. I want to rely on the handtools alot. However, to resaw stock, now I'm leaning toward a bit larger BS. What say you all? What do you use
Grizzly G0555 Ultimate 14" Bandsaw
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G0555

6" riser kit for the G0555
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=H3051&&DID=6


3/4" Timberwolf AS-S blade. (105" long) http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/silicon_steel_pricing.asp

All of the above will cost you just a tad over $500, including shipping.

Best bargain in the machinery world, IMHO. But get the Grizzly quick, because their prices are going up about 10-15% after the first of the year.

To see other folks opinions on the G0555, just do a search for G0555 in the power tool forum. EVERYBODY who has it loves the thing.

Of course, if you really want to do some hard-core resawing -- like lots of very thin & wide stock, all day, every day, then you'd be better off going with a big Mini-Max, Aggazani, or some other Italian brand. But be prepared to pay $1500-$3000 for it.

Yes, there are quite a few saws priced in between the Grizz and the mega-saws, but IMHO they don't provide nearly the increase in power, etc, that they do in price over the Grizz. (In other words, the bang-per-buck ratio goes way down.) You're much better off going with the Grizz now and then saving up for a mega-saw later if it turns out you need it.

[Terry Hatfield]

Seems like alot of you guys use a bandsaw. A BS was going to be my first purchase, and that's been confirmed. I was going with a 14" because I don't want overkill. I want to rely on the handtools alot. However, to resaw stock, now I'm leaning toward a bit larger BS. What say you all? What do you use


John,

The G0555 is a great saw but if you have a little bigger budget you might consider the G0513. I have had mine for a while now and I really like it. I have a full review of the G0513 on my site if you would like to check it out.

Like Tom said, better work fast either way 'cause prices are goin' up soon.

Terry

[Steve Wargo]

Comparing an Itanlian (Euro) saw to a Delta, Grizzly, General, Jet is apples to Oranges. There is a reason that they cost more, and it's not because shipping is higher. I can balance a dime on my Laguna 16HD while running, and resawed a 9" piece of white Oak to 32nd" out of the crate. I had $1K into my Jet 14" saw and spent hours tuning it. It couldn't have cut half as cleanly or effortlessly on it's best day. If you tend to resaw a lot then spring for the Euro saw, if not and all you're doing is ripping, and rouch cutting joinery, then by Taiwanese. just my $.02

[John Bailey]

Terry,

I posed this question on another forum, possibly you guys would have a different outlook. In an article in American Woodworker, they said a larger bandsaw, like the G0503 has trouble adjusting smaller blades. Since most of my work will be smaller jobs, will the G0503 be a problem? What size blade to you use for non-resawing? Do you have problems adjusting? I know some use the same blade all the time. I will probably change blades often. I enjoy working slowly and methodically. I've been looking at the Gerneral 90-125, or the larger 90-240. They compare with the Griz G0555, and the G0503 respectively. They are a couple of hundred more expensive. Anyone have an opinion if they are worth it, or have any experience with the Generals? As for ordering soon-I'm in the process of building my shop. The weather caught up to me and my foundation and floor is under a foot of snow (covered, of course). So I have no where to put the equipment until spring. Besides, I like the research too much to be in a hurry.l

[Terry Hatfield]

John,

The euro disk style guides on my G0513 perform well for blades 3/16" or larger. Blades smaller than 3/16" can be a bit of a problem as there is not very much blade left behind the gullets for guide surface. I would rarely use anything smaller than 3/16" anyway but if you need to it could be an issue.

I use mine for general cutting as well as resawing. I normally have a 3/8" blade on the saw but I have resawn up to 11 3/4" white oak with no trouble using a TW 3/4" 3tpi blade. I'm extremely pleased with the saw.

t

[John Bailey]

Tom,

Sorry, I tried to post a picture of my latest dulcimers. I couldn't figure it out. Can anyone tell me where to go on the site to get instructions.

John

[John Bailey]

Terry,

The article I refered to talks of the adjustment of the wheels. Has that been a problem? Actually, 3/16" sounds pretty small to me.(Remember, I'm basically a Neanderthal with no experience with bandsaws.) I'm not sure I would be using anything smaller. I was planning on using a 1/4" for general work. Does that sound like it's in the ballpark?

John

[Terry Hatfield]

Tom,

Sorry, I tried to post a picture of my latest dulcimers. I couldn't figure it out. Can anyone tell me where to go on the site to get instructions.

John


Try this.......

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?threadid=3993&highlight=picture

Terry

Oh almost forgot....can't wait to see the dulcimers!!!!

[Terry Hatfield]

Terry,

The article I refered to talks of the adjustment of the wheels. Has that been a problem? Actually, 3/16" sounds pretty small to me.(Remember, I'm basically a Neanderthal with no experience with bandsaws.) I'm not sure I would be using anything smaller. I was planning on using a 1/4" for general work. Does that sound like it's in the ballpark?

John


John,

You might need to define "general" at bit more. I use the 3/8" blade for general cutting. I go bigger if resawing and smaller if the 3/8 is to large for a tight radius cut. The 3/8" is on my saw about 90% of the time but that all depends on the exact type of work you are doing.

No issues with the adjustment of the guides at all. I have found it to be quick and easy.

t

[John Bailey]

Terry,

I'll give this "posting a picture a try." Hopefully, you be able to see the dulcimers.

John

Well, it didn't work. Apparently the picture is too big. I'll have to see if I can work on it. Thanks anyway. Darn!!:confused:

[John Bailey]

Terry,

The smallest curves I'll be working is about 2" radius. It sounds like I may be more content with the larger saw. Boy, do I have a lot to learn.

[Tom LaRussa]

Well, it didn't work. Apparently the picture is too big. I'll have to see if I can work on it. Thanks anyway. Darn!!:confused:
John,

Here is a link to the semi-official picture shrinker for SMC. http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm

It's freeware and very easy to install and use.

After installing just remember that SMC's server wants all pics to be 600 pixels max in either dimension.

:)

[Alan Turner]

A chart on my old PM 141 says that a 1/4" blade will cut a 5/8" radius arc, FWIW.
Alan

[Jerry Crawford]

IMHO, buy yourself an old Delta 14" Band saw with the extension and spend a few bucks on new bearings and some paint and you'll love it forever. Your heirs will be using it. Next to about a half dozen small chisels on my bench I probably use my band saw more often than ANY other tool I own. I paid $200 for it about 10 years ago, invested another $75 in refurbishing and it's paid me back many times over in usefulness.

Now, could I do by hand what I use the saw for - sure. But not as quickly or as accurately. Why spend my time hand saw riping out a gun stock from a 3X11X72 plank of maple when I can spend that time doing something I really enjoy?

[Charles Luck]

I'm new here, so take my opinion for what it's worth. I have done a ton of research on band saws over the last several years. I worked at one of the tool stores for awhile as a second job, and set-up and used several different models. I've also talked to alot of people about their band saws, and read everthing I could find on the subject. I'm going with a 18" Laguna. I've never heard anything really bad about these, but have never used one. To me it all comes down to one thing. I'm willing to pay for a super high quality tool if it means I won't have to spend tons of time setting it up and tuning it. I did way too much of that at the wood working store, and at my day job at the factory. I do not enjoy doing it at all. From all I've heard and read, the Laguna fits my needs perfectly. I simply want something that I can count on to do what I want without all the trouble, and then causing me more work when I'm done with it. Hope this helps. Happy Holidays, Chuck.