how do you mark your pins?

[Bob Jones]

I am learning to hand cut dovetails. It is going pretty well, my biggest problem is marking my pins. I am cutting them tails first. I like skinny pins, but getting a knife in there is not happening.
I have tried an exacto knife and it is too short.
I tried a real marking knife from LV, but it is too thick and so sharp that the line is invisible.
I tried a box cutter but that blade was too short too.
I tried the DT saw itself, but then I end up with undersized pins.
Lastly, I am using the blade from a stanley 78. It works pretty well but it is still a bit too thick.
I am considering a scribe from LV because I don't know what else to try.

FYI I am on joint number 10 and I am improving. It really is fun.

Any tips would be welcome.

[Casey Gooding]

A thin spear point knife like the Blue Spruce Toolworks knives are perfect for your needs. I use them and love them.

[Jim Koepke]

One of my marking knives is made from an old saw blade.
The handle was turned from a piece of rosewood.
The ferule is from a brass tubbing fitting.

The blade was cut using a dremel cutoff wheel.

160507

Works real well even in tight places.

Often after marking, I will go over the lines with a very sharp pencil.

jim

[Richard Niemiec]

Like Frank Klausz, with a sharp pencil, and cut on the line. Practice, practice....

[Bruce Page]

+1 on the Blue Spruce marking knife, good balance & feel.
A sharp x-acto also works well for me.

[Adam Johan Bergren]

Try a pocket knife. Seriously! At least it works great for me!

[gary Zimmel]

One more vote for the Blue Spruce marking knife.
They make an ultra thin one that will lay out a pin that is a saw kerf wide.

[Thomas love]

same here,

[Mike Henderson]

I like the Japanese woodworking knives (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.041.12&dept_id=13221). You need a left (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.042.12&dept_id=13219) and right (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.041.12&dept_id=13221) to mark well. I use the 1/2" knives because they fit my hand best. You could go smaller, say 3/8", and it would probably feel okay.

I also use them for cutting veneer.

Mike

[Doug Shepard]

I picked up this Czech Edge knife a few years ago
http://czeckedge.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9_10
Though I still need more practice with handcut DTs, the knife has no problem fitting into tight spots.

[Don Dorn]

I'm with Adam - use a swiss army knife. Either plane or sand the end of the board and the line will show up easily.

That said - I learned pins first ala Frank and still tend to gravitate to it, especially when it's simply strength I'm looking for. In that case, a sharp pencil does just fine.

[Jim Koepke]

Either plane or sand the end of the board and the line will show up easily.

+1 on this, my pieces are always cleaned up on the shooting board before marking.

jim

[Bob Jones]

Thanks for the tips. A pocket knife sounds like the thing to try next!

Yes, I have been shooting the end grain.

[Matt Evans]

I have an old putty knife I ground much like Jims, but left the old wooden handle and brass ferrule. Blade is about 2" long, and spear pointed.

The older putty knives seem to have halfway decent steel, so its an inexpensive option, and very quick to do, since you don't have to make a handle for it.

I left it a bit wide as well (1" approx), as the width doesn't interfere at all. Makes it a little easier to hold while sharpening, depending on your setup.

[Derek A. Johnson]

Plane the end as mentioned, then make your first mark lightly, being careful to keep the flat back of the marking knife flat against the side of the tail (if you are not careful you can cut into the tail itself). Then go over the line several more times. After removing the tail board, use a fine mechanical pencil to go over the cut lines. Finally, hit each line with an eraser to remove all the pencil lead except what is inside the marked line. This give super fine, easily visible lines. Then you can use the scribed line to place your thumbnail in for help in placing the saw. Also, be sure to have a task light within a foot or two of the board's end.

Derek

[Asher Langton]

I use a narrow Hock marking knife, which works well for me. I had trouble with wider marking knives (too big) and X-acto knives (scribed lines were too faint).

[Sandy Stanford]

I am learning to hand cut dovetails. It is going pretty well, my biggest problem is marking my pins. I am cutting them tails first. I like skinny pins, but getting a knife in there is not happening.
I have tried an exacto knife and it is too short.
I tried a real marking knife from LV, but it is too thick and so sharp that the line is invisible.
I tried a box cutter but that blade was too short too.
I tried the DT saw itself, but then I end up with undersized pins.
Lastly, I am using the blade from a stanley 78. It works pretty well but it is still a bit too thick.
I am considering a scribe from LV because I don't know what else to try.

FYI I am on joint number 10 and I am improving. It really is fun.

Any tips would be welcome.

Cut the joint pins first and you can mark with whatever pleases you, with plenty of room to see what you're doing.

[Don Dorn]

Cut the joint pins first and you can mark with whatever pleases you, with plenty of room to see what you're doing.

I happen to agree but I think based on the OPs description, he has/is learning the Cosman method. I've done skinny pins cutting them first and it works pretty well, but there is allot more chopping (Never did get the hand of that fret saw).

[Sandy Stanford]

I happen to agree but I think based on the OPs description, he has/is learning the Cosman method. I've done skinny pins cutting them first and it works pretty well, but there is allot more chopping (Never did get the hand of that fret saw).

I don't like the coping saw method either and I wouldn't like to have to go through five+ iterations of marking implements in order to 'find' something that fits into a very narrow pin socket. I'm basically from the Phil Lowe, et al. school on this - I mark with a 2H Dixon Ticonderoga. It doesn't get any easier than that I don't think.

Easy is good. Isn't it?

[Derek Cohen]

Two methods when going tails first:

1. Use a skinny marking knife, such as Blue Spruce. Or make your own: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Knife%20for%20Marking%20Dovetails.html

2. Saw the tails, leave the waste in place, then use the kerf to guide the saw blade instead of a knife blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

Thin knife, tails first with small pins. If bigger pins, then it doesn't matter, pencil or knife.

Someone gave me a BS marking knife, the really thin one, as a gift. I probably would've made one if someone wouldn't have given one to me.

I like the violin knives like Mike Henderson is talking about, too, but it seems like too often, I want to go in a direction other than what the knife faces (mine are single-sided bevel). I wish my other knives were made laminated like they are, though.

[Sean Hughto]

You could try a pounce bag.

[Steve LaFara]

I watched a bunch of You Tube videos and ran accross Rob Cosman's and it looks like he uses a utility knife of some sort. I tried to find something similar using Google images but could only find this one shot of his.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/upload/images/converted_xml/April_2006_PW/image/P69-3.jpg

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't something like these skinny retractable utility knives work well on small dovetails? Thicker than an exacto blade but can be used from both sides.

http://www.images.asidatabuilder.com/images/prodimgs/4970000/4970264.jpg

[Bob Jones]

Yes, I am trying the Cosman method. Nice screen shot of his knife. I am surprised that he does not offer one for sale yet.

I am actually using a small utility knife with the best results so far. It tends to come out of the holder, which is aggravating. I bought a new one at Lowes that has a set screw. i will see if it holds the blade any better. Thanks for all the tips - I am going to check out making a knife myself.

I tried a pocket knife, but it was less accurate (in my hands) than the small utility knife.

[Sandy Stanford]

Yes, I am trying the Cosman method. Nice screen shot of his knife. I am surprised that he does not offer one for sale yet.

I am actually using a small utility knife with the best results so far. It tends to come out of the holder, which is aggravating. I bought a new one at Lowes that has a set screw. i will see if it holds the blade any better. Thanks for all the tips - I am going to check out making a knife myself.

I tried a pocket knife, but it was less accurate (in my hands) than the small utility knife.

The pins first/tails first argument will no doubt rage on long after we are all dead. You owe it to yourself to try pins first once just to see if you like having the ample room for marking the tails.

[Prashun Patel]

A trick I'm using (and I'm not good yet) is to cut a 1/8" rabbet on the inside of the tail board. The pin board then butts up against it when marking the pins. Having that bearing surface has made my layout lines more accurate.

I tried using an exacto knife but found it too thin; it ended up following the grain. My utility knife works well. I value having a kerf starter vs using a pencil.

Now if I could just saw straight up and down...

[John A. Callaway]

Yes, I am trying the Cosman method. Nice screen shot of his knife. I am surprised that he does not offer one for sale yet.


He has one in the works. He just put out a wheel marking gauge...

[Bob Jones]

Good news, I have my answer. It only cost about $8. See the Blue utility knife. The red one - bought from the same store a couple of years ago is garbage - but the blue one seems excellent. See the difference? A little thumb screw that locks the thin blade in place. The red knife was prone to losing its blade, the blue one seems stable (after one night of use). I recommend it.

The proof is in the pudding - see the picture of my 1st ever DT and my #12 that I just cut. The first one took 2 hours, the 12th one took less than 40minutes and I am a very slow mover. What a BLAST!

FYI I am practicing on pieces of Poplar and Aspen that I bought at lowes. This way I am not hacking up pieces of wood that I dimensioned and surfaced by hand - that comes next. :)

Thanks for all of the tips!