Remote Thermostat for the Shop

[Matt Meiser]

I'm looking for a way to remotely control the heat in my shop from the house. So far I've come up with the following options:

- BayWeb IP enabled thermostat. Expensive ($200) and requires communication to their server. They've been around a while but in this day and age that doesn't mean much and it would render the hardware worthless if they went away. Nice system but I can't get over that dependency.
- Proliphix IP enabled thermostat. Expensive ($300), especially after adding the separately sold but required PoE adapter.
- Home Automation controled thermostats. Fairly expensive since I'd need to buy everything and there's the question of whether they would even work between the house and shop. I know X10 does not but have never experimented with the newer systems. I haven't done much research on these.
- Thermostat mounted in the house with a remote sensor in the shop. Only control would be in the house and I'd have to pull 2 pair through the conduit. Plus the 24VAC for the furnace would run all the way back to the house and I'm concerned about introducing noise on the phone wiring in the conduit.
- Low tech: 2 thermostats in the shop, one on the low temp and one on the high temp with a DPST switch between them. I actually already have this and would just need to extend it into the house. Same problems as above.

What I've really expected to find but can't is a thermostat that has a wired remote control. Anyone know of such an animal? Or another option?

[Thomas Bank]

If I'm reading between the lines correctly, you don't really need a remote thermostat - you don't really want to control the temperature from the house, do you? You want the thermostat in the shop to sense the temperature and then a way to turn the HVAC on or off from the house. You could add a remote thermometer in the house to be able to see what the temperature is in the shop.

[Matt Meiser]

I do want to remotely control and read the setting from the house. I never shut it off, only turn it down to 40 since I have water out there.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I do want to remotely control and read the setting from the house. I never shut it off, only turn it down to 40 since I have water out there.

I know of a fella that kit-bashed a remote control from an RC car to control the switch(es) in the shop, and 3 small lights that showed in a window to indicate the shops' thermostat's setting. Off, low, high.

Gotta be a pretty small market for that kind of setup. Remote controls usually exist to save a many-mile drive, not a walk across the lawn.
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[Dan Johnson]

Remote controls usually exist to save a many-mile drive, not a walk across the lawn.
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Most remotes I use save me a walk across the living room.

I have the same situation. My shop is about 150 feet from my house and in the winter, it is a pain to turn the thermostat up then go home and wait for it to warm up. I hope someone has a solution.

[Greg Coleman]

Just sorta brainstorming.
I have a remote for a ceiling fan. It controls the speed and the light.
Could you wire the receiver in series between the thermostat and the heater using the light control. If the thermostat is calling for heat and you activated the receiver with the remote it would complete the circuit and allow the heater to run. It would continue to run until the thermostat were satisfied or you activated the remote to turn off the light. The range might be a problem though.

[Matt Meiser]

Yes, range is definitely a problem.

I found this (http://www.venstar.com/Thermostats/T1119RF/) from Venstar today. It is exactly what I want but is wireless. They claim a 500' range even through walls. But the price for the thermostat and remote ($272) is so close to the Proliphix ($308), I might as well go with that.

[Greg Coleman]

[QUOTE=Matt Meiser;1506194]Yes, range is definitely a problem.


How about a switch that uses your garage door opener remote? $20 plus I am sure you can find a extra remote on line as well

http://www.chamberlain-diy.com/doityourself/pages/productmodeldetail.aspx?modelId=1515

[Matt Meiser]

Range might be OK, but there would be no way of knowing if it "took" or which setting it was on.

[Jim O'Dell]

Matt, this is out of my league, so I'm asking questions here to understand. Are the 2 expensive options personal computer controlled? If so, I would think that would be a great option. Not only could you control it from the computer in the house, but also from another site all together. You could conceivably control it from one of the new phones on your way home. But I do understand controlling costs too. But not sure a wired remote would be available. Just no call for it. Wireless would seem to be something that might have been tried at one time. (thinking out loud here...) Wonder what 2 identical thermostats wired in parallel would do? One in the shop, one in the house. You would still have the 24 volt issue, but only one set of wires. It would probably confuse the heck out of the unit, not knowing which command to follow. :eek: May be worth looking into thermostat systems to see if any have that capability, for say a 2 story house. Jim.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Two thermostats located in the shop, wired in parallel. One has a relay (110 volt coil) in one of the leads, which is controlled by one of those "Christmas Tree Remotes." Relay controlled one has higher setting for temperature. Hit the "on" switch, and heat comes on until desired temp is reached. You could also mount a light to remote control, so you could tell if heat came on. Plus after you get back to house and taking off shoes, you could turn the heat down without having to go back to the shop. Total cost, less than $50

[Todd Franks]

Matt, Here are a couple of ideas from the SmartHome website.

Insteon remote temp control (http://www.smarthome.com/remote-temperature-control.html)
IP thermostat (http://www.smarthome.com/3054T/Programmable-Thermostat-NT10e/p.aspx)

I've purchased several Insteon switches and controllers from SmartHome and have them on outdoor lights, lamps, etc. Insteon uses the same PLC technology that X10 uses but I've found it to be way more reliable. I don't know if it works at the distances between your house and shop and don't have any experience with their Thermostats. If you poke around their website you may find some other possible ideas. These ideas may not be any cheaper however than what you've already found.

[Kent A Bathurst]

..... a remote control from an RC car to control the switch(es) in the shop, and 3 small lights ........

Mitchell - Please, please, please tell me that the three lights are set up like the starting "christmas tree" at the drag strip.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Mitchell - Please, please, please tell me that the three lights are set up like the starting "christmas tree" at the drag strip.

Yea.... I'm with you. Don't know.
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[Matt Meiser]

A creeker pm'd me about finding some Proliphix thermostats on Ebay for a good price. They are "pro" models and get their power from the furnace's 24VAC. I'll just need to run a CAT5 cable over to the shop's ethernet switch and I'll be able to control from the house, or anywhere in the world if I connect to my home VPN. With a little router config work I can probably even get to it with my phone. Not cheap, but over time I suspect it will pay for itself since I won't be tempted to leave the heat on working temp because its cold and snowy and I don't want to make the trek out there. :)

Edit: Just realized that Proliphix has a free remote access service you can subscribe to so you can reach your thermostat from the general internet in addition to the on-board web server. Looks like it will work from my phone.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Edit: Just realized that Proliphix has a free remote access service you can subscribe to so you can reach your thermostat from the general internet in addition to the on-board web server. Looks like it will work from my phone.


I nominate Matt for Creek-Geek of the year.
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[Matt Meiser]

Nah, that's not the geeky part. The geeky part is that I applied to get a copy of the API so I can write my own app that talks to it to add some notification features that I'd like to have.

[Lee Schierer]

Try a Cottage Sitter (http://www.absoluteautomation.com/sensaphone/cottagesitter/index.html) they can monitor and turn on your system. The same company makes other systems that work through the power feeds or via wireless.

[Bob Winkler]

Or, you could save money by doing it another way. :)

- Install a lamp socket under the existing thermostat
- Test different wattage bulbs until it cuts back the room temp the desired amount (should be relatively low wattage).
- Switch the bulb from your house using a xmas tree remote control switch or equivalent (lots of options here).
- install a low-cost wireless thermometer for feedback and gratification (lots of options here too).
- smile and pocket the extra money or else buy the wife something for allowing such a nice workshop.

Bob

[David Woodruff]

Put a wireless remote in series with the power to the primary of the thermostat transformer. It is probably buried somewhere in the panel. Trace the wires backward from the thermostat. I suspect this option has already been considered by you. Let us know your solution. Good Luck, david

[Chris Keem]

A standard thermostat with remote temperature sensor would probably be the simplest and cheapest solution. mount thermostat in house and mount remote temperature sensor in shop. set stat to read temp of remote sensor and ignore internal sensor.

http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/controls/edgeprogram.shtml

There are alot of thermostats in the $50 - $125 range that can do this. Totaline (Carrier) and honeywell have wireless stats in the $100 - $150 range. Robertshaw 300 series stats have remote sensor capabilities.

theres also a bunch of wireless stats on ebay...

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=wireless+thermostat&_sacat=See-All-Categories

If I lived in your town i would say call me and ill come over and look at it because HVAC is what i do for a living but since im not my advice would be to try ebay or find the nearest HVAC supply house (united refrigeration, totaline carrier, johnson supply, Solar supply) and ask those guys to help you. They'll sell you the stuff at cost plus tax.

[Halgeir Wold]

I'd look into using a standard industrial PID controller, which gives you remote readout and control. I don't know if you know these devices, but the common ones have both a relay output which can control a remote relay if necesseary, as well as use different sensors, like Pt-100s or TCs ( thermocouples). They usually also have an alarm relay output, that can be configured in different ways, to give an alarm both for high and/or low temp's. I don't know the distance between your house and shop, but provided you're on the better side of 2-300', you'd be OK. I use this setup to control several hot air furnaces at work, and I even have one working at a distance of appx 1 mile, but that's a little more complicated.

But, OTOH, and for the more "gadget oriented", the PC / Internet solution probably works OK, but is of course quite more expensive. I've been around PCs since their introduction in the very early 80's, and I'd never trust a WinDoze PC to any form of unattended control application. PIDs are also usually high reliabilty devices, given their more common tasks - industrial control of what ever have you.. :)

[Matt Meiser]

I'm familiar with them and hadn't thought of that.

Regardless, I JUST finished installing the Proliphix thermostat which is controlling my newly-converted-to-natural-gas-as-of-this-afternoon (:D) furnace. As a thermostat, its completely self contained, but I can use a browser, including my phone, to remotely control it from anywhere in the world.

[Phil Thien]

I can use a browser, including my phone, to remotely control it from anywhere in the world.

But so can I [insert evil laughter here].

Can't wait to read a report after you've used the unit for a while.

[Jim O'Dell]

But so can I [insert evil laughter here].

Can't wait to read a report after you've used the unit for a while.


I can see a thread by Matt this winter entitled: "I turn my heater on in the shop while I'm reading my morning email, but when I get there, it's off. What's going on????" :D Jim.

[Todd McDonald]

If you have some electronics and programing skill then this smells like a great way to leverage a arduino. www.arduino.cc (http://www.arduino.cc).

Maybe a arduino with a temperature circuit that controls a reed switch and an ethernet shield that host a embedded web server. A simple post to the arduino ip address could set the thermostat.


Todd

[Matt Meiser]

Well, I got some time today to play around with the API and wrote two small apps to sit on my Windows Home Server. The first is a service that checks the thermostat setting every 5 minutes. When its been on "hold" for more than X (currently 2) days, it sends me an email, then every Y (currently 1) days after that. That will keep me from accidentally heating the shop when I don't plan to work out there. The second app is a simple web app that shows the current shop temp, temp setting, and whether or not the thermostat is on hold or normal. Then there are two buttons, one to go back to normal, and one to put it on hold at 62 degrees which is my usual working temp. I've got the thermostat schedule set so that "normal" is 42 degrees which is my not-in-use temperature to prevent freezing.

The other thing I found is that the model I bought supports up to two external temp sensors. And I found that their outdoor sensor is pretty inexpensive so I have one of those on the way.

[Vince Smith]

A friend of mine came up with a very inexpensive solution for his shop. He sets his mercury thermostat for whatever he wants his shop to be at. He plugs in a remote Christmas light switch into an outlet and then plugs his shop heater into the remote switch. Now he can turn the power to his heater on or off from inside his house. When the power comes on so does his heater and it automatically heats to whatever his thermostat is set to.

[Matt Meiser]

I'll add this here in case someone comes across this thread in the future looking for options. Home Depot has a new option for a Wifi-enabled thermostat. The reviews on HomeDepot.com are mixed but some of the bad reveiws seem to be from non-technical people who didn't know how to make it work.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202352449/h_d2/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&keyword=thermostat+wifi&jspStoreDir=hdus&Nu=P_PARENT_ID&navFlow=3&catalogId=10053&langId=-1&ddkey=Search

As for my Proliphix thermostat, its been working out quite well for me. First, I bought the outdoor temp sensor and a second remote sensor so I could monitor the temp in my shop office which I keep heated in the winter so I can store glue and WB finishes. Also I suspected that it tends to get too hot in the summer so now I'm able to monitor both conditions.

Second I developed two .Net apps that I use with it. One is a web page that shows the readings and has Heat, Away, and Cool buttons. Heat means hold the temp at 62F with the ability to adjust the temp as needed. Away means hold the temp at 42. And Cool turns on the AC held at a TBD setpoint (just installed the AC this fall so I haven't really used it yet.) I can access the web page from my PC or even from my phone. The second app is a service that reads the status periodically. If its been on Heat or Cool for more than 48 hours, I get an email reminder every 24 hours so no more accidentally leaving it on for a week. It also records the temp readings to a small database. Both of those live on my Windows Home Server machine.

[Matthew Sherman]

Cool to hear you went with Proliphix. That is what I would have recommended if I saw this thread earlier. I have had the NT20e for about 2 years now and it has probably paid for itself with the energy saving I have had in my house. Your setup sounds close to mine because I have Windows Home Server as well and using a java program to pull temperatures from it and write to an XML file. I then can generate temperature graphs using Adobe Flex Builder.

[Ed Looney]

If you would install a freeze stat in parallel with your wall mounted thermostat it would keep the temperature above freezing in your shop without having to adjust your wall mounted thermostat. At that point all you would need is an on off switch in the house to remotely turn on or off the wall thermostat in the shop. Just leave the temperature adjusted where you want it and turn it on or off from the house.

Ed

[Joel Goodman]

It seems to me that all you want to do is remotely control the switch that selects between your two thermostats. Why not just replace the switch with a relay and have the powered position the "higher temp thermostat". When your in the shop you can bypass the relay. If I understand you just want to warm up the shop before you get there so you'd be activating the relay for say an hour prior to your arrival. If the system fails you automatically end up with the low temp thermostat so no big harm done. Cost is really minor as you have already done half the work.