ipe problem

[dan lemkin]

I built this bench out of ipe. The joints are simple beadlock 1/2 floating tenons in the frame and 3/8" beadlock tenons in the top. The slats are floating in 1/4" wide dados.

After building it, I found numerous articles on the web discussing what a disaster this wood is when glued. Especially with PVA. As it happens, I used Titebond III.

I wanted to reinforce the joints prior to it falling apart and was looking for some advice. As I saw it, I have a few options...

1) Attack it with a 23ga pinner with stainless brads. I planned on two into each end of the floating tenons. I could try it with 18ga, but have concerns about splitting or not penetrating given how hard this stuff is.

2) Drilling and pegging with 1/4" dowels - one into each end of the tenons. The overall tenon length is 2.5", so only have about 1.25" on each end to work with... again splitting a concern.

3) Drilling and screwing with stainless screws and covering hole with a flush cut plug.

Can anyone provide some guidance on best salvage method to try to keep this bench from falling apart?

thanks
dan

[Doug Shepard]

I had glue problems with ipe making these
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=548719&postcount=6
and I was using a marine adhesive/sealant. I understand that good quality epoxy works pretty well with ipe but it's immune to lots of glue types including PVA. I ended up buying a length of 3/16" brass rod at the Borg and reinforced some of the joints with pins cut from that. Left them all exposed as if they were always part of the original plan - just filed/sanded them flush and smooth with the wood.

[michael craigdallie]

my vote would be for option #2. go with the 1/4" dowel, i think the 1.25" of wood/tenon would be plenty strong.

cheers,
m

[Ted Wong]

Last Christmas I glued up several boards for a Ipe countertop using Titebond III. Besides some hydroscopic swelling at the joint lines in a few spots I have not had any joint failure yet.

[Justin Bukoski]

How about stainless pocket screws on the inside?

[Mike Archambeau]

That is a nice looking piece. Also looks like it is protected from the weather on a nice porch. For that reason you will probably be OK.

[Peter Quinn]

I've glued a little IPE with titebond III. With a long open clamp time and sufficient time to cure before stress it does work. In my situation I was making wider boards using long grain glue ups and had no issues. I have had ipe glue ups fall apart after 5 hours in clamps, so I think I went over night and had no problems. I guess some small pegs would shore things up as any glue and species amy eventually fail if subjected long term to a harsh outdoor environment.

[Gordon Eyre]

Excuse my ignorance but what is ipe?

[Dan Hintz]

Gordon,

Ipe is a beautiful, dark exotic wood known for its extreme hardness (you need to drill rather than nail) and natural bug/decay resistance.

Of course, it's so dense, it doesn't exactly soak up finishes/glues...

[Gordon Eyre]

Gordon,

Ipe is a beautiful, dark exotic wood known for its extreme hardness (you need to drill rather than nail) and natural bug/decay resistance.

Of course, it's so dense, it doesn't exactly soak up finishes/glues...

Tlhanks Dan.

[Stephen Cherry]

I wanted to reinforce the joints prior to it falling apart and was looking for some advice. As I saw it, I have a few options...

Can anyone provide some guidance on best salvage method to try to keep this bench from falling apart?

thanks
dan


Why not wait to see if it does fall apart. If/when it does, your repair is half done and you can sand the tenons, then use the right glue to reassemble.

Or, the pegging the tenons would also look fine. I would peg into each of the main posts from the front, and into the rails from the inside of the box. The slats should be able to float, without pegs.

Plus, it's a great looking box:)

[Dan Karachio]

Dan, I don't have advice for you on the Ipe, but I built an almost identical piece out of cedar for my wife's gardening tools and I am very jealous of how you made your top! Mine is simply a large panel. It warped a little, but after two years is holding up very well. Some day I may just copy your top design and add it to the piece! Very nice!

[dan lemkin]

Thank you for all the advice. I like the idea of pegging from the front of posts and the back of rails.. I will try to find a complementary wood dowel to use.

Ipe is amazing stuff... It is incredibly heavy, dense and really stiff/hard. The slats were made from dimensional 1x4s that were quartered, leaving a 1/4"x 1.5" slat. At 1/4" I think cedar would definitely need the bracing I placed on the bottom surface of the top piece. I dado'd 1/4" grooves in each rail. 1" on one side and 1 1/2" on the other with the plan that if they ever break, it would allow me to slip in a shorter replacement, slide it into position and pin it in place.

The top has a very shallow dado, around 3/16 which was incredibly fragile to work with, but avoids a large step off when you are sitting on it. I blew out one piece while assembling. The second one, I shaved a bit more with the tablesaw to allow the slats to move more freely.

I got rid of the remaining 140 bdft I had laying around for about 1/2 what i paid.... I really like the wood and just wish it was a bit friendlier to work. I will likely get some cypress to replace it for outdoor projects..

Now I need to ship my blade back to Forrest... and expect a call... "What the heck did you do to this?"