Shop Vac

[CPeter James]

I have an older Shop Vac that needs to be replaced. My present one clogs the filter with fine dust very quickly and then it doesn't suck any more (or it sucks in a different way). A Festool is not in the cards unless they are going to have their first ever sale. Are there any reasonably priced units that will handle fine dust like from sheet rock? What about Porter Cable?

Thanks,

CPeter

[Dave Verstraete]

I've been pleased with my Ridgid Vac. Haven't used it for drywall dust, though.

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

I think this is your answer - http://www.dustdeputy.com. You can use it with your vacuum. I using it for more then two years and forget how to change a bag or filter:D:D
Ed.

[Kurt Cady]

Wait until the day after Thanksgiving and get a Ridgid, or ShopVac (Lowes) for $20. Nothing beats $100 Vac for $20. And add the HEPA filter. I think another $@20

[Jay Allen]

Eduard has it. Those cyclone seperators are great. I use one on my router table.

[Jim Heffner]

If your filter is getting clogged too easily, try this. Wrap the filter with
a fine sponge screen, like a window unit a/c uses, and hold it in place with a couple of large rubber bands. This will help pre-screen anything going through the filter and is somewhat easier to clean.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Wait until the day after Thanksgiving and get a Ridgid, or ShopVac (Lowes) for $20. Nothing beats $100 Vac for $20. And add the HEPA filter. I think another $@20

That's become a yearly tradition in our house!
My wife and I get to HD @ 5:30am on Black Friday and stand in line just to buy a shop vac.
(I know - we seriously need to get a life).

Be warned however - the doors open at 6:00am.

The shop vacs are gone by 6:07am.

Snooze ya lose.
If you aren't in the first 25/35 people, you'll probably miss out.
They only have about 100, and people buy as many as they can get away with.
My wife and I double team it and still only manage to just squeak by with one.

(We have 4 rentals and constantly need a wet/dry vac for something or other - sometimes the Ridgid comes with an extra free filter. Filters run $15.00 alone, so it's cheaper to buy the whole vac. In case anyone wondered or cared why we buy so many of them)



Our Lowes is usually a lot better since they don't get anywhere near the traffic @ opening.
We hit Lowes around 7:00am or so and they usually still have a decent stock of ShopVacs.

IMHO - the Ridgid is a better machine than the Lowes Shop Vac.
My Lowes bought Shop Vac is terrible at holding fine dust inside. It leaks dust like crazy.

Usually, when I'm doing a lot of drywall and/or skimming & sand a lot, I make a pre-filter out of a carboard box and a furnace filter. I run one hose into it - duct tape it in place - then run another hose out & to the vac.
When the sound of the vac changes to let me know the furnace filter is clogged, I take the hoses off, slap duct tape over the holes and toss the box - filter and all.
The whole setup - box and furnace filter - is cheap enough to be disposable if you buy the filters a bunch at a time when they go on sale.
I tried taking the filter outside and blowing it out, but, it's a real mess and not worth it.

[CPeter James]

Thanks for the replys. The add ons seem like that they would be a nuisance to carry around and up and down stairs. I am looking for a reasonable sized self contained unit that doesn't clog up in a short time. The reason I asked about the PC is because I have seen a PC unit attached to a sheet rock sanding head. Does that unit have some sort or cyclone separator or is it all done with filters that have to be replaced?

CPeter

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Are you using a bag with your shop vac when you collect sheet rock dust?
I find a bag and a CleanStream filter work well with the a shop vac . The cleanstream filter can be cleaned off by running water over it.. it's goretex.

[Rich Engelhardt]

IIRC, the PC is a whole system of sander and vac.
I looked into it at one time.

- Just looked it up. The PC vac is the 7812.
It's not actually a "system", but, it's perfect for the PC drywall sander.
Looks like it also uses a special bag & an exhaust filter.
Just under three bills @ tools plus.


BTW - it's not all that bad dragging the box around. I have a lot of hose w/all the Ridgid vacs I have.

[george wilson]

Using a Dust Deputy will get chips,but not fine dust. Best idea is to wrap the filter in a sponge material. I suggest a cotton bag.

I use a Clean Stream,but it clogs as quick as any,and is a nuisance to clean. My Fein originally came with a fuzzy cloth filter that looks like a bucket. I ended up putting the bucket filter back in,and putting a clean Stream in as well. It has worked well. I don't worry about fine particles getting through,and the bucket keeps all but the very finest away from the Clean Stream. Sort of the same thing as wrapping the filter as suggested above.

[Will Overton]

My present one clogs the filter with fine dust very quickly ...
CPeter

Then it must be working ok. Your problem is most likely that you aren't using the proper filter for drywall. Most brands of new vacs will require the same type of thing.

http://www.shopvac.com/shopvac-accessories/Departments/Drywall-Dust.aspx

[Rich Neighbarger]

Sounds like you need the filter bags, not a new vacuume. Bags are cheap and will allow you to use a Hepa filter and keep it from cloging, your lungs clean, and maintain constant suction. Bags are rated for particle size and are found at any home center.

[Thomas Canfield]

The Ridgid 14 Gal High Performance cost like $99 at HD and is the quietest that Ridgid offers. I added the Dust Deputy ahead of the vac and it catches the majority of dust and chips in the shop. Without the Dust Deputy, the filter does load up pretty fast with the fine filter. I recommend getting the elbow fitting for the Dust Deputy from Oneida if you go that way since the hose provided is so stiff it makes the unit tipsy.

[Trent Whitehead]

Are you using a bag with your shop vac when you collect sheet rock dust?


The bags are a must have for sheet rock dust. I have never had a filter clog when sanding sheet rock using a bag in the shop vac.

[Derek A. Johnson]

For shop use, I consider one of the better bags and a HEPA filter required equipment. When I first bought my shopvac I hooked it up to my tablesaw and figured it would be better than nothing until I bought a dust collector. It promptly packed the filter and burned up the motor, and there was no debris in the cannister at all. There is nothing wrong with your shopvac--rather, like so many tools, it is not ready to use out of the box without first making some changes.

[CPeter James]

Let me rephrase the question. Does anyone make a shop vac with a built in cyclone to catch most of the dust and take the load off the filter. My Oneida dust collector will run all day hooked to a drum sander and 99+% of the dust ends up in the can, not the filter, Does anyone make a vac that operates like this.

BTW: I don't use it on sheet rock, I just used that fine dust as an example of what I was looking to vacuum up. It is mostly very fine wood dust and dirt off the shop floor.

Thanks for all the replys. It was interesting to learn that most of the units around use expensive bags. I am presently using clearstream filters.

CPeter

[Tom Ewell]

I've been using my Fein 9-11-20 for over a decade using bags with the original filter. Some fines get through to the filter but a puff of air is all that is needed to clear it up.

I don't particularly see these bags as being expensive. This site has a pretty good collection of bags.... no Festool that I've found, however.
http://www.totalvac.com/GK-TURBOI.html

[Curt Harms]

It has 2 motors as I understand it--one to create suction and one to cool the motor. Other better vacs may be the same design. Cheaper vacs use the "cleaned" air to cool the motor. If the air isn't all that clean, the motor suffers. I use Genie bags in my Fein vac along with a cartridge filter. There's nothing magical or mystical about the vacuum/bag connection as far as I can determine.

[Ron Citerone]

I'm confused now. I was going to buy a rigid today. It comes with the canister filter. Do I need to get a bag filter instead or do I need a bag filter in addition to the canister

[Tom Ewell]

The bags collect most of the "stuff" the filters take out what gets by the bags.
I use bags with filters on all of my vacs. A double filtration setup.

Come time to empty the vac I take out the full bag and replace it with new, it's ready to go again.

The filters need less maintenance because of the bags. When the filters do collect enough to hinder suck, a quick air puff-brush-off cleaning is all that is usually needed.

[Tom Esh]

I'm confused now. I was going to buy a rigid today. It comes with the canister filter. Do I need to get a bag filter instead or do I need a bag filter in addition to the canister

I'd leave a canister filter on at all times. The double filtering won't noticably effect performance and you won't be blowing dust around if the bag tears or something punches a hole in it.

[Derek A. Johnson]

Without a bag, my shopvac packs the cartridge completely. This blocks the airflow which also cools the motor, and can burn up the motor on these cheap vacuums. I would never run my shopvac without both a bag and a cartridge. The stock cartridge is OK, and will last a long time when used with a bag--even longer if you don't buy the least expensive bags. After far too much research on dust collection, I bought a HEPA replacement cartridge as well because otherwise every time you use the shopvac you are blowing very fine, dangerous-sized particle into the air for you to breathe. The HEPA cartridge is also easier to clean--you just run water over the outside surface.

As to the cyclone issue--my understanding is that if you add an external device to the shopvac to behave like a cyclone and pre-separate, you will kill your airflow. Some folks seem to be happy with this setup, however, so you could always try making one of these homemade separators (there are plans online).

By the way--if your shopvac brand vacuum suddenly refuses to turn on, there is an internal fuse in the wire leading to the motor. It looks a bit like a brad nail between two spade connectors, and it melts to save the motor. Unfortunately, it is not designed to be user accessible--you must take apart the entire unit to find it. Mine is now, in actuality, a brad nail, and my next vacuum will be one of the new Festools.

Derek

[Tom Esh]

...
As to the cyclone issue--my understanding is that if you add an external device to the shopvac to behave like a cyclone and pre-separate, you will kill your airflow....

Not if it's well designed. I have a Clearvue mini on mine and use it as a primary dust collector. Hoses and fittings are a different story however. They can have a huge impact on performance.

[John M Wilson]

As to the cyclone issue--my understanding is that if you add an external device to the shopvac to behave like a cyclone and pre-separate, you will kill your airflow.

As some would say, my mileage varies! :) I rely on my Rigid shopvac for dust collection, and was getting very frustrated with cleaning the filter every 20-30 minutes of hard use. (I do not use an internal bag). I got a Dust Deputy, and I am amazed at how much it captures before the airstream hits the shopvac. My airflow seems unaffected compared to a clean filter, and since the cartridge does not clog now, is far superior to the airflow I was getting on average, since I'm not dealing with the partially (or fully) clogged filter.

I realize that the shopvac/dust deputy combination does not meet the stated needs of the OP, but I did want to add my 2 cents on the airflow issue.

Good Luck!

[Derek A. Johnson]

The airflow I am referring to is the CFM at the tool/hood necessary to capture the majority of the fine particles in the most dangerous size range. Clearly people are able to maintain sufficient airflow to capture visible particles and have been happy with this use. Of course, this is the usual dust collection discussion where some are happy with 30 micron bags while others will use nothing but 1 micron cartridges. I agree with those who argue for large air flow at the hood, very fine particle filtration, and that things you can't see can still hurt you.

For a vacuum, I am happy with the bag/HEPA filter combination. For machine dust collection, I am only so-so about my dust collector/cannister combination. I should have bought a cyclone.

Derek

[Jack Burgess]

I have looked at all of responses and I am confused - are people using a shop vac as a vac system ? I was told that they would not be adequate. Is anyone using one successfully?

[Van Huskey]

I have looked at all of responses and I am confused - are people using a shop vac as a vac system ? I was told that they would not be adequate. Is anyone using one successfully?

If you are talking about people using a shop vac for a dust collection system, there are a few people that try to get by with one but it is indeed inadequate for 99% of machines. Most people use them for hand power tools, particularly sanding where lower flow but higher suction works better.

[Matt Meiser]

Let me rephrase the question. Does anyone make a shop vac with a built in cyclone to catch most of the dust and take the load off the filter. My Oneida dust collector will run all day hooked to a drum sander and 99+% of the dust ends up in the can, not the filter, Does anyone make a vac that operates like this.

Yes, Oneida does. But if you don't want to spend the money on Festool, you really aren't goign to like its $2,385 price tag.
http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_vac.php

The add-on Dust Deputy works great by the way, whether you've got a $10 garage sale special vac or a Festool vac. The drawbacks are that it is a little cumbersome so you'll want it to be removable for field use and with the way I've mounted mine I can no longer tug the vac by the hose. Some clips to hold the DD's lid on the bucket would solve that.

[Mike Heidrick]

Can some folks show pictures of their dust deputy add on setups and mounts please?

[Keith Outten]

Let me rephrase the question. Does anyone make a shop vac with a built in cyclone to catch most of the dust and take the load off the filter. My Oneida dust collector will run all day hooked to a drum sander and 99+% of the dust ends up in the can, not the filter, Does anyone make a vac that operates like this.

CPeter

Oneida makes a shop vac called the Dust Cobra that has an integrated cyclone that will definitely do the job. It is pricey though!

You can get a wall mounted Dust Cobra or one built on its own cart.
.

[John M Wilson]

Here's mine... I got the plans from PlansNow.com. I think this was an article in one of the woodworking magazines recently.

This cart was not hard to build, and does a good job of making the somewhat cumbersome pairing of the DD with the shopvac a little more portable & convenient.

Good Luck!

[Van Huskey]

Oneida makes a shop vac called the Dust Cobra that has an integrated cyclone that will definitely do the job. It is pricey though!

You can get a wall mounted Dust Cobra or one built on its own cart.
.

I have been lusting after the Cobra but thinking of buildind a sytem with two shop vacs running in parallel remote mounted in a closet and with auto-on when power tools are used. Requires some specific wiring and a piping system but it could be really cool and cheaper than the Cobra BUT it won't suck as much...:D

[Van Huskey]

Here's mine... I got the plans from PlansNow.com. I think this was an article in one of the woodworking magazines recently.

This cart was not hard to build, and does a good job of making the somewhat cumbersome pairing of the DD with the shopvac a little more portable & convenient.

Good Luck!


Shopnotes had plans for one in the last year, can look it up if anyone is interested in what issue it was in.

[Keith Outten]

Van,

I purchased a Dust Cobra for my shop last year. I can't tell you how many hours it has saved me because the suction is consistent and I don't have to stop to clean a filter.

A few weeks ago I got a Dust Cobra for the shop at CNU with the wall mount.

This is a tool that I use constantly on every project. It makes short work of cleaning my CNC Router table after each run, before I load the next piece of material.

I tried just about every type of vac system though the years, the Dust Cobra is the one I was looking for :)
.

[Van Huskey]

Van,

I purchased a Dust Cobra for my shop last year. I can't tell you how many hours it has saved me because the suction is consistent and I don't have to stop to clean a filter.

A few weeks ago I got a Dust Cobra for the shop at CNU with the wall mount.

This is a tool that I use constantly on every project. It makes short work of cleaning my CNC Router table after each run, before I load the next piece of material.

I tried just about every type of vac system though the years, the Dust Cobra is the one I was looking for :)
.

I was afraid someone would say something like that...

Did you plumb a system with blast gates etc OR do you use their long extension hose or...?