Do I Need a Jointer?

[Josh Kandiko]

Hi all,

I'm new here and love reading about your guys' projects and shops. I recently inherited a complete woodworking shop. This is what I have at my disposal.

Table Saw
Lathe
Grinder
Sander
Band Saw
Router
Drill Press
Radial Saw
Router Table


Now my question is, I would like to get into cabinet making and picture framing. Everything I read says that the wood first needs to be extremely straight for the pieces to work correctly together and look coherent. Will I need a jointer to do this, or can getting by with what I have suit me well? I'm no professional wood worker, but enjoy my hobby and want it to look nice. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Guys,

Josh

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to Sawmill Creek, Josh! A nice place to hang out...

IMHO, the jointer is one of the most important tools in conjunction with the table saw and planer. It's part of the "work triangle" that lets you product flat and straight components and yes, that preparation work will make for better joinery. Can you build fine projects without one? Sure and many folks do. But I'd not give up my jointer for anything! And in case you missed the reference to flat above...edges are only one thing you use a jointer for...the face needs treatment, too. Flat lumber with straight edges that are perpendicular to the flat face are what you are shooting for.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Fisrt of all, welcome to The Creek! Secondly, there are a couple schools of thought here, Josh:

1) Since you inherited the tool selection, you might be able to afford a jointer.

2) You might not need an electrified jointer, but get by nicely with a #7 or #8 jointer plane (that's a hand tool - you power it).

Either way, you should become proficient in sharpening, because powered jointers and handplanes have one thing in common - they'll need to have their blades sharpened to be effective.

Maurice

[Joe Mioux]

Welcome Josh:

Ditto what Jim and Maurice said.

Since you have a router table, you can edge joint wood with that until you buy a jointer.

If you are going to build cabinets with plywood, then no you don't need a jointer. If you are going to build faces for the cabinets then maybe.

Either way, eventually, you will want and need both a jointer and planer.

BTW: Since you're new to this forum, I think you better watch out for the picture police. You have already broken one of the unwritten rules around here and not posted pictures of your recently acquired tools.

Again welcome to forum
Joe

[Robert Ducharme]

The powered jointer would be easier to get the straight edge than the hand tools. I also think a jointer is a critical piece of shop equipment.

By the way, welcome to the creek (if possible you should avoid that swamp area where the neanderthals hang out). Also look out for the whirlpool generated by those turny type people. :D Whoops, didn't you say you had a lathe? Maybe I should help out and save you by taking it off your hands :rolleyes:

Again, welcome!!

[Tyler Howell]

Welcome Josh!
Haven't picked on anybody all week so I guess your it:p .
An inheritance like that is definitely a gloat and requires pictures. As you will see these wonderful people here show no mercy. We can help you post pictures and even select the appropriate jointer.
Glad to have you in the creek.;)

[Bob Smalser]

I'm spose to be a hand tool guy...but here's what I recently advised a prospective boatbuilder about jointers...and dimensioning with hand planes is great training until you learn proficiency with them....after that, it's just slow drudgery:


I have an inexpensive Grizzly 6"X48" jointer and a Grizzly 12" thickness planer that have worked just dandy almost every day for several years, living outdoors in tents, and will serve til I get a permanent shop built. A number of my local finish carpenter friends have Dewalt portable planers they like.

The advantage of the smaller planers is you can plane stock down to a quarter inch or less without using a backer board....I've always had one even when I had a larger planer.

I don't see a substitute for a jointer. Sure, you can get a mediocre straight edge joint out on the TS or router with a lot of slow effort....as straight as your batten and the length of your fence, anyway...but you can't flatten the face of a cupped or twisted board on anything else but a jointer as the first step before the planer, and that's positively vital if working with less than perfect stock.

The jointer also tapers and bevels with much cleaner surface than a saw.

The only reason you need a jointer larger than 6" is to flatten the faces of boards wider than 6". In boats, using boards wider than that other than for planking (where if you need to flatten it, you shouldn't be using it) isn't such a hot idea because of increased chance for warp.

What I want in a jointer is longer, not necessarily wider. The longer those precision ground tables, the more accurate your edge joint. The more accurate your edge joint, the easier it is to glue or drift. And the better it glues and drifts...the longer it lasts and remains watertight.

There's no competition at all between the accuracy of a joint that can be gotten out on a TS compared to a jointer.

Buy a second set of blades and a magnetic jig to set them.

[Mike Tempel]

Well, looks like you are getting some good advice so I will leave it at that - ditto to what the others said.

You are gonna love it here. Do watch out for the police though - they want pics and you must obey.

Tyler is right. We can help pick out a jointer - all you have to do is ask around here - we love to help you spend your money.

Welcome aboard. Like I said you are gonna love it here. It is addicting.

Mike

[Ted Shrader]

Josh -

First welcome to the Creek. A great place to hang out, get advice and share experiences.

Second. In a word, "YES"!! For all the reasons given above.

Welcome,
Ted

[John Weber]

Welcome and yes, but you can live without. Some folks get a little help with hand planes, others buy S4S wood that is surfaced and straight. A jointer will give you a flat face and a square corner, a planer with add an uniform thickness and allow you to vary the thickness. I would look at at least a decent 6", but go for an 8 if you can swing it. Many lunch box planers are very good (DeWalt, Delta).

John

[John Shuk]

Welcome Josh this is a great place to talk and learn. Alot of people have said it. A jointer is a very important addition to your shop. Once you have one you will not beleive you got by without one. Buying s4s can work but if that wood moves on you while acclimating to your shop what then? I would go at least 8 inch and 10 or 12 if possible. My reasoning is that while there aren't alot of those big wide boards to be had there are alot of turning blanks that could use a wide jointer to get a flat face for mounting to a face plate. There are other ways but it works pretty well with a big jointer. Enjoy the creek.

[Josh Kandiko]

Hi guys,


Thanks for all the great replies. I will be traveling back to my shop this weekend and will hopefully have pics for you on Sunday evening.

So I take it a jointer and a planer is pretty much a given. My coworker has a planer that he said I could borrow whenever I needed, so I don't think that is on my list of things to buy. I do have a limit for the price and size of the jointer. I would not like to spend more than 500 (preferably 400 dollars) for a jointer. I only have a one car garage so it cannot have a large depth. I do want infeed and outfeed adjustments.

I know that many people look down on Craftsman, but thats what a lot of the tools I inherited are. My grandfather was a Craftsman, and I know many look down on the current Craftsman models, but the long ago models (at least to me) work fine for my purposes.

I was checking out a jointer from Craftsman (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&fromAuto=YES&bidsite=CRAFT&pid=00921706000 )
and it did appear to have everything I needed.

I have looked at Jet, Grizzly, Yorkcraft, and various others, but I am not a professional. So, I don't know. Maybe I am being naive thinking the Craftsman is quality, but from my experience, it fits my needs.

Any opinions? Or does anybody know where I can pick up a used jointer? I live in Wisconsin (Madison) and am willing to make a drive it the deal is right.

Thanks for the warm welcome!!!

Josh

[Bob Smalser]

I'm not a big fan of Craftsman power tools, as they change makers so often that parts are often a huge problem down the line. Plus the quality is mediocre at best.

For used machines, I generally recommend used Delta as they are common as mud and parts are generally available. Powermatic is also good if you get the right price. Ditto General of Canada.

For real old machines no longer in production, or even newer (30-yr-old) Rockwells Delta no longer supports (love my Rockwell machines) there are a couple of "Old Iron" forums that can help, but I'd recommend something you know you can get parts for.

Old jointers and planers can be especially troublesome if they are out of whack....some trunnions are worn beyond their adjustment limits and require machine shop work.

You need to know enough about them to give them a good technical inspection before buying, so find a knowledgeable buddy to go with you if you can...or at least get some guidance.

[John Miliunas]

Hi Josh and welcome from a fellow Cheesehead! :D Me thinks you're gonna' like it here! :) As for the jointer, I vote "yes" to a jointer, but unless you get a phenomenal deal on a C-man, I'd go with one of the other choices you list. Quite a few guys out here have had pretty good luck with the Ridgid jointers and I used to have the Grizzly. Just MHO but, if you're looking for the best value ($$$ & quality), I'd say go with Grizz. Word has it, though, that their prices are going up after the 1st of the year. Up a LOT! That's due to the steel prices having gone up quite a bit recently. :mad: As for a used one, good luck! I searched around the Madison and surrounding area for a few months, without any luck. There were a couple I missed, as they were sold by the time I got to them. There were a couple more, which were both, too expensive and junk! Anyhow, good luck in your search! :) Also, if you're ever in the area around Spring Green, give me a yell and we'll plan for a visit. It's really not THAT far! I work at the UW and do the commute daily! :) Again, welcome and have fun here at SMC! :cool:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Josh.....Welcome to the 'Creek!

Like you, I'm just a beginning hobbiest. I built my first piece of furniture and when building the rails and stiles for the doors and when building the face frame ....guess what I discovered?....even though I paid a heckofa price for oak at the BORG....no two boards were the same thickness or straight. I had a cheap Craftsman jointer and ended up with a 13" Rigid thickness planer during the project........half lap joints are the pits if the pieces are the same thickness!

Again....Welcome to the 'Creek!

P.S. The Photo Cops (Tyler and Chris Padilla) will be all over you if you don't post photos!

[Josh Kandiko]

Hi all, (again)


I heard the name Rigid dropped and was wondering about its quality? I found at Home Depot that seem to be in my price range along with having the infeed and outfeed tables adjustable. Is rigid a quality name or am I going even lower in the rank of tools?

Thanks
Josh

PS (This weekend I'll get you guys the pictures.)

[John Miliunas]

Josh, there are a number of folks around here with any number of Ridgid tools. I've seen pretty good opinions of the Ridgid jointers. In the grand scheme of things, jointers are pretty straightforward and uncomplicated machines. I believe most every jointer sold today will have adjustable infeed/outfeed tables, as that's really the only way to adjust for a flat final product. Speaking of flat, in a jointer, you want to check the in/out-feed tables for flatness and make sure the fence is at 90*deg. to the tables. That will be pretty much global requirements to ALL jointers. You'll find differences in width size, horsepower, in/out-feed table lengths, the way the fence attaches to the unit, ets... Without getting too complex about it, if your space and budget are limited, the 6" Ridgid should do you well. The nice thing about that unit is, if you have problems "out of the box" with it, you just drive right back on over to HD! :) The above are just my opinions and general observations, but given the limitations you need to stay within, I think you'd be OK with it. :) :cool:

[Mark J Bachler]

Welcome, I agree that a jointer & planer are essential in a shop. Always buy the very best machine that you can possibly afford, espically now with all the China motors out there. I'm up here in Shell Lake WI, Washburn Co. Stop in if you're ever in the great white north.

[Scott Behrens]

Welcome to the creek. I think the jointer question is best answered by assessing how much woodworking you plan to do. If you will use it at least occassionaly for a few years, it will be well worth your money and they hold their value extremely well. On that note, I spent a few months running around wasting my time trying to find a used jointer in the paper or at an auction. Never managed to catch one in the paper and bought a new RIDGID cheaper than most the comparable 6" models sell for used at auctions. I paid $265 plus tax. If you go to HD, make sure to get one of their 10% off coupons. That'll knock the price down to $315, and if you can wait for a rebate or sale, that could happen here just before chrismas (no guarantee on the sale). I haven't looked at the Craftsman but I like my RIDGID just fine and it is $50 cheaper. If you decide on the Craftsman, be sure to join the "Craftsman Club" for a 10% discount. I hear all kinds of good things about the value of Grizzly machines. Might be important to note that the resale may be highest for a Grizzly, then RiDGID, then Craftsman. I'm sure you'll be happy with any of them.

[Peter Gavin]

Josh,

Welcome to the Creek. I am also relatively new here and have found the advise I've gotten priceless. I'm also in Madison WI (there seem to be a lot of Cheeseheads popping up on the board lately) and am trying to learn woodworking and outfit a shop on a limited budget. If you want to give a jionter a test run give me a holler and I'll let you test drive mine. Maybe we can take a drive out to Spring Green to meet John and he can clue us into his hardwood suppliers. The biggest reason I'm going to buy a planer soon is because I'm tired of paying ridiculous prices for finished lumber and would like to find try some new varieties which seem to be available only in rough sawn form.

Take care,

Peter Gavin

[Josh Kandiko]

Hi all,


Question about the Grizzly jointer. The maximum width that the 6" models offer is 6" (duh!). But the Ridigid offers 6 1/8". I read that it is important to consider this because if you buy 6" stock that is maybe an 1/8 over, it won't fit. Is that true? Is this a valid concern?

Thanks
Josh

[Peter Gavin]

Josh,

Most 6" stock is actually only 5 1/2 inches, so unless you are cutting larger stock to 6" it shouldn't really matter. I noticed in your list that you didn't have a compound mitre saw. That is probably the most used tool in my shop as it prevents constantly changing the table saw from rip to cross cut. I've never had a radial arm saw or a band saw so others may consider those to take the place of the mitre saw.

Peter

[Josh Kandiko]

Hi Peter,

I don't think I need a miter right now because I have been able to get by with the radial and band saw (like you said). I have decided that I will get a Ridgid jointer because from what I have read, it is a quality tool and is the right size and price for what I need. Now I am going to see if any sales at the Home Depots in town will get me a better deal. Thanks all for the help!


Thanks
Josh

[Mike Cutler]

Josh. I'm going to post a slightly dissenting opinion.
There are two machines, that woodworkers buy initially, and then want to get a larger one very soon thereafter. The first is a jointer, and the second is a bandsaw.
A larger jointer does give you more capacity for initial face planing, but they also give you a longer table length. This is important when you begin to work with longer boards. The weight of the board can be difficult to control once it gets too far past the end of the outfeed table.
It may seem that Bob Smalser has some unique requirements for wanting a longer jointer due to boat building, but a 2"x12"x 8' long board made of oak, maple or in my case jatoba, can be very heavy and require extra table length or additional outfeed tables to control properly.
My advice; If you think that woodworking may become a larger part of your life buy the biggest jointer (read as longest) that you can afford. I've never heard someone comment, that they would really like a smaller jointer or bandsaw ;) My .02 on the subject fwiw

[Frank Pellow]

Josh, welcome to Saw Mill Creek and I concur that YES you need a jointer. By the way, I don't have one but I do hope to purchase an 8" jointer early next year.

[John Miliunas]

Josh,

Welcome to the Creek. I am also relatively new here and have found the advise I've gotten priceless. I'm also in Madison WI (there seem to be a lot of Cheeseheads popping up on the board lately) and am trying to learn woodworking and outfit a shop on a limited budget. If you want to give a jionter a test run give me a holler and I'll let you test drive mine. Maybe we can take a drive out to Spring Green to meet John and he can clue us into his hardwood suppliers. The biggest reason I'm going to buy a planer soon is because I'm tired of paying ridiculous prices for finished lumber and would like to find try some new varieties which seem to be available only in rough sawn form.

Take care,

Peter Gavin

Peter, Josh...You guys are most welcome to take a run out to my shop. It's really not THAT far and a nice drive, to boot. :) In the grand scheme of things, I'm a relative "newbie" myself, but am always willing to share what little knowledge I have and that would include introductions to lumber suppliers. Give me a yell and we'll make it happen! :) :cool: