Where to get rip chains?

[Mike Cruz]

So, with a fellow Creeker over this past weekend, I realized that I need a rip chain for my chainsaw. I stopped by my local Stihl dealer asking for a rip chain. They looked at me like I had 3 heads! I explained what I meant. They called the manager over. I explained to him what I wanted. He said, not only "we don't carry them, and I Stihl doesn't make them", but also " you don't want to use your FarmBoss for that. You'll burn up the saw." I tried to explain that I'm not trying to cut up 10' logs on endgrain. I'm cutting 14 to 19" logs along the grain. ......... Blank stare. "Nope, Stihl doesn't make that."

Hmmmmm, Tony had one on his Stihl. I've heard numberous people here talk about 'em.

Where do you all get your rip chains? Or do you just take regular chains and file them at different angles?

[Jason Roehl]

Usually a rip chain is also called a "skip-tooth" chain. And, yes, you can make your own by grinding off every other tooth on each side of the chain.

If you're not doing a lot of ripping, it's probably not worth it. Just tilting the saw slightly will keep it from producing the long, clogging shavings. It also helps to get the log off the ground a little bit so that your saw can eject the shavings without plugging the chute.

On edit: This may not be the exact chain you need, but it's a site and a start:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=WP375%2033RP

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Mike, I am very surprised that your dealer said that.:confused: My dealer sold me one when I bought my saw, a 260 Pro. There is a different color link cover to identify it. You will notice in the picture that the chain boxes are colored green and the other is yellow. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52958&d=1166566856I can't remember which is which but check another dealer. I use my rip all the time with no harm to my saw.:)

[Tony De Masi]

Mike, I'll go to the outbuilding tomorrow and get the chain number off of the label I kept.

Oh, and then I'll send it to you.:rolleyes:

Tony

[Sean Hughto]

My Stihl dealer said he'd be glad to get them for me, but that the don't regularly carry them or rerecommend them because they tend to break too often and too easily. Dunno if that was made up BS or true, but FWIW there's another county in the state of Stihl heard from.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Tony, I'd appreciate it.

Sean, sorry, don't know if it was the beer I just had or what, but I didn't quite follow your post. Please splain, if you have a dealer or something that is actually willing to order it, that would be awesome.

Does this mean that most of you don't really use rip chains? Do you just use regular ones?

[Darryl Hansen]

Baileys or Norwalk Power Supply both have them.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I've ripped a lot of blanks with my 028 and did them with the safety chain that comes with the saw. I imagine a rip chain would be quicker, but I have never experience kick back and feel the I would rather cut a little slower but be safer.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Mike,
Are you trying to rip with the log standing on end or laying it down and sawing through the side. It makes a big difference. Ripping with the log on its side is quicker. It also helps if you rock the saw occasionally to help clear chips. You may not need a rip chain, even though they are available.

[Mike Cruz]

The latter, laying down and cutting through the side, not standing up. It was my impression that you kinda need (or at least it is way more efficient) to use a rip chain for this rather than a standard chain.

If the general concensus is that most people don't use them (because of a lack of need, not because they don't want to spend the money) then I don't want to try to get something I don't need. But if the proper way to do it is to use a rip chain because it is faster (and still safe) then I'd like to get one.

Darryl, I'll give them a looksee. Thanks.

[philip labre]

Dealers told me that a rip chain is only available for the larger saws that take a 3/8" chain. My dealer recommended a full chisel chain. It's what we have been using for years to rip freehand craft lumber small enough for the bandsaw and works well for ripping bowl blanks.

[Fred Perreault]

Rip chains are available, but not required to cut our turning blanks. I have owned and used dozens of chain saws over 45 years of construction and land clearing, but I don't propose to be an authority or expert, only experienced. However, cutting with the grain, log on its' side works okay with a standard "safety" chain (yellow, anti-kickback). A less safe but much better option is the non-anti kickback chain, with the green label (warning!). Chain saws are right up there with table saws as far as safety issues. They are both inherently dangerous. Use firm footing, proper balance, stay behind the saw, elevated work surface if possible, and no reaching.... to name a few tips. Proper maintenance will help a lot, and sharp "blades/chain" made for the task are vital. A standard non anti-kickback chisel tooth chain works great, but is dangerous when cutting near the tip of the bar. Below is just one of many links regarding chains.
A very good link is: http://www.sawmillchainsaws.com/sawchains.htm
Chainsaw Chain Types

By: Gene Rodriguez, IIIThere are a number of chainsaw chain types, each designed for specific jobs or groups of chainsaw users. Pairing the right chainsaw chain type with the particular job is the best way to saw efficiently and lower the risk of injury or damage to the chainsaw.
Know Your Chainsaw Chain Types


Low-Kickback - Low-kickback chains are designed to meet the government safety standards for kickback prevention when using a chainsaw. In The US, low-kickback chainsaw chains must meet or exceed ANSI standard ANSI B175.1. In Canada, low-kickback chains must meet or exceed the CSA Z62.3 standard. Low-kickback chains are a good choice for home use or light professional duty use.
Professional - Professional chainsaw chains are designed for durability and comfort when used over long periods of time. Professional chainsaw chains typically cut faster than other chains, requiring specialized training for safe use. Professional chainsaw chains come in number of "pitches" designed to fit chainsaw bars of different size. The available pitches for professional chainsaw chains are 0.325, 0.375 and 0.404.
Narrow Kerf - Narrow kerf chainsaw chains are narrower than standard chains. This narrow profile leaves a smaller channel (called a kerf) in the wood. Narrow kerf chainsaw chains are typically used on low powered chainsaws intended for light duty use.
Ripping - While most chainsaw chains are designed to cut perpendicular to the grain of the wood, ripping chainsaw chains are designed to cut parallel to the grain of the wood. This design feature makes ripping chains particularly useful when cutting boards from felled trees while using a chainsaw mill or similar attachment.
Self-Sharpening - Self-sharpening chainsaw chains are intended for use with chainsaws that have a self-sharpening feature. These types of saws are useful for cutting in abrasive conditions or by users who are not comfortable sharpening their own blades.

[Fred Perreault]

Sorry, but I believe that I mixed up the label colors for saw chain. Yellow is usually used for the more aggressive styles and green or blue is used for the "safer", less aggressive consumer saw chains. I have read that saws with a 3.8 c.i. engine or smaller must be sold with safety chain. After that, we are on our own.

[Pete Jordan]

I used to buy ripping chains from Granberg but now I just buy skip tooth chains from my Stihl dealer.

[Sean Hughto]

My Stihl dealer said he doesn't like to sell "rip" chains because they break too easily, i.e., are dangerous and cause customer complaints.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Ripping chains are really meant for milling logs with the so called Alaska mills and similar, that is across the log and then going down the log to make planks and beams from logs.
For sawing your pieces of log into bowl blanks, you don't need a ripping chain, I would classify a ripping chain on a handheld saw a not so safe setup, and there's just no need to use a chain like that.
Most every turner that saws his own blanks does use a regular chain, and lays the log on edge and saws with the grain while holding the saw at a slight angle so the shavings don't get toooo long and plug-up the saw.
Also a ripping saw doesn't work well for cutting across the log to cut your log into shorts, and you than would need a regular chain and change it every time, not something I want to do ;-))

[Joe Bradshaw]

Mike, I took the cheapo way to get a rip chain. I ground the tips off an old chain that I had. I tried to duplicate the way the teeth are on a ripping blade for the tablesaw. As I have used and sharpened this chain, I have gradually ground the leading edge of the tooth almost completely across. Oh, yeah, I gring the cuttung edge at 90 degrees to the bar.

[Ken Hill]

I use Baileys as well, very satisfied! I have used ripping chain to cross cut with no problems. As stated earlier in the thread, it isnt really a special chain but the teeth are filed in a way that can promote kick back so care needs to be taken nonetheless.

I wouldnt spend the extra $$ however, a regular chain works well, just keep it sharp and block your log up so it doesnt move around.

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/DSC00040/825968755_pyxFf-O.jpg

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Ken I found with half the amount of teeth and the square grind that the chain didn't cut as well as a regular chain, just IMO, and yes it is also more likely to kick back, as I referred to in the "not so safe setup" :).

Thanks for adding the mill picture that should make it more clear as for what this chain is really made for :D :cool: :)

[Jake Helmboldt]

Skip tooth isn't a ripping chain, it simply has fewer cutters and is typically used on longer bars to avoid bogging when in a large cut (much like you want fewer teeth in the wood on a bandsaw when resawing).

A rip chain has the cutters ground at about a 10 degree angle (almost square across the top) to better slice endgrain. Ripping in general causes the saw to be a bit grabby and want to bounce as you are starting the cut, especially if you cut down through the end of the log, as opposed to the length of the log. Kickback, regardless of cut/chain, etc is from the upper half of the tip of the bar contacting the wood, thereby pushing the bar up and back (quickly). Avoid that, and you avoid kickback almost completely.

As has been noted, Baileys online is probably the best source for saw supplies and they have rip chains in most any size. But as has been said, unless you have a saw that is dedicated to ripping, you probably don't need it. A regular chain (full chisel, semi chisel, safety, whatever) will do the job on short logs for turning blanks. Just take your time and keep the long stringy shavings from clogging the saw.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Jake is right on the money. Ripping has nothing to do with the number of cutters. There are skip tooth rip chains, and skip tooth crosscut chains, and full comp (full complement of cutters) chains of both rip and crosscut. Rip chains have generally a 10 or 15deg. top angle, sometimes 5deg. "Regular" chains, i.e. those made for typical use, and not fixed position cutting-(milling), are generally 30 or 35degrees.


You do not need rip chain for a farm boss. It is not meant to do that kind of cutting. You can cut a single, 16-18" log in half along the grain (as described--NOT down the length of the end grain), very easily with a standard chain. Don't complicate things! Trust me; you don't want the number of chains and saws, and different angles, bars, etc. :cool:

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, guys. It looks like I may have been down the wrong path. While I wouldn't mind a dedicated chain for when I'm cutting blanks, this seems WAY too complicated to be worth the effort. I'll just stick with my regular chains. At least now I know, if I ever DO need a rip chain, I know where to find them. ;)

[bob svoboda]

I have the Farm Boss and use a skip tooth. 33 RSC3 84 Stihl chain. I get great results ripping with it. Just finished making bowl blanks out of well seasoned walnut chunks with no problem.

[Neil Strong]

Skip tooth isn't a ripping chain, it simply has fewer cutters and is typically used on longer bars to avoid bogging when in a large cut (much like you want fewer teeth in the wood on a bandsaw when resawing).

A rip chain has the cutters ground at about a 10 degree angle (almost square across the top) to better slice endgrain.

Exactly.

I use a 'square chisel rip/skip tooth chain' on my 72cc chain saw with a 28" bar. For me it's worth changing bars and chain when I need to rip a batch of larger blanks up to that size. Skip chain is needed to avoid clogging on cuts of that length. I don't bother with a bar/chain changeover if it's a batch of 12" blanks.

Carlton (http://www.sawchain.com/products/productdescChain.asp?SeriesID=1) make a chisel/rip chain.

.....

[Mike Cruz]

Okay, I just found out a little info. Thought I ought to post this because I ripped (no pun intended) my local Stihl dealer for not knowing what I meant by a Rip Chain.

When Tony came over to cut up a bunch of wood with/for me, he had a chain that was under the impression was a rip chain. It did such a good job, that I must have just assumed it was one. Tony PM'ed me the numbers associated with the chain that he uses. I went to my local dealer again, armed with what I want, and here is the explantaion:

The chain Tony was using (which, BTW, did a fantastic job...) is what Stihl refers to as a more aggressive chain. The pitch and number of the teeth are the same as the regular anti kickback chain. There is a difference though... When looking at the tooth (head on with the sharp edge pointing at you) the normal chain is rounded over on the side. The aggressive chain, from the same view, is however not rounded over and at a 90 degree point. In other words, what it looks like they did (figuratively speaking) was they took the aggressive chain and used a roundover router bit to soften the sife edge of the tooth...from the front view. This makes the the aggressive tooth a faster cutter, BUT much less forgiving when it comes to hitting things that can dull your chain...like rocks and dirt.

So, I am now the owner of a total of 3 normal chains (for cutting firewood) and 1 of the aggressive chains for when I want to cut up chunks for blanks.

Hope that created a little perspective for anyone that was as confused as I was...

[Jim King]

For ripping hardwood cants to manageble size peices I simply file down the guide between the teeth to allow more depth per cut. Works great. I have at least 20 teams in the jungle and they cut about 1000 bf per team per day and no damage to the jungle with a large tractor. The young kids in the families carry out the cants up to 6 or 7 kilometers and dont even break a sweat.

[Mike Cruz]

Ummmm, what kinda wood is that? For those boys to be carrying those be pieces, they must not be that dense? :confused: Right? :eek:

[Rich Aldrich]

I have never used a rip chain, so I cant comment on the advantage.

Cutting the rakers down like Jim suggests does make the saw cut faster, but especially in hardwood, it can make the saw kick much easier - just a warning - not knocking the advise. I keep the rakers cut on my saw to optimize the chip size and speed.

Remember, a kick back normally happens when the top 90 degrees of the tip is cutting. I try to avoid this situation.

When I was a young and working in the woods for my family's logging business, I had a 16" bar. Large aspen was interesting to cut with a short bar and was where I had issues with kick backs. The 16" bar might not fit all the way through the pieces I now cut for turning. The shorter bar might make it more difficult to keep the tip out of the wood, depending on the size of wood you are cutting.

The saw I now have for firewood and now turning, has a 20" bar. I have yet to cut a piece that the tip of the bar did not stick through. I also have not had a kick back yet due to clogging. My saw has the dogs where the bar mounts to the saw, so I use these to apply pressure to the bar while cutting.

My saw is a 365 Huskvarna and is around 5 HP. I dont really have a power issue.

IMHO, the most important safety feature on the saw is the chain brake. These new saws are so much different than the saws we used back in 70's. On my new saw, the chain brake is activated if the saw kicks back toward you (up) or if it kicks down. It took a while to get used to this when I got my new saw 5 years ago, but I really like it.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Rich. Yeah, I too, have a 20" bar...on a Stihl Farm Boss, though. Likely that your saw is much more of a saw. My Stihl is just fine for me and what I do (4 cords of firewood a year, and now getting into turning). A friend of mine has the saw (I believe) that you have. Yeah, it cuts faster. But it's a beast. It is in a different class.

I, unlike you, have buried my my tip many times. I fell a couple of oaks about 3 years ago that were 32" and 36" at the base. Ended up taking them to the local mill and selling him the 10-12 foot logs.

The reason for my posting this thread was that I originally thought I kinda needed a rip chain for cutting up blanks. It seems that there are plenty of folks that don't use them or even any kind of modified chains and get by just fine. I thought that like regular wood working, unless you have a combo blade, you need dedicated blades for ripping and crosscuting. I didn't really realize that unless you are doing this for extended periods or a living, a normal chain will work just fine.

When Tony was over, the chain he had on his Stihl Farm Boss (with a 20" bar) was the "aggressive" tooth cut chain that local Stihl dealers carry. It cut great, not clogging much if any. It went through Oak burl, Walnut, Cherry, Dogwood, and some others quite sufficiently quickly for my taste. Sure, there are probably other chains that will be more efficient, but I don't sharpen my own chains. I used to, but at $4 a pop for the dealer to do it, it really isn't worth my time. I have 4 chains for my saw. When three are dull, I take 'em in to town. :) So modifying them would mean me taking care of them. I think I'll be set for now. I do have a little research to do based on an email I just got, but think I'm gonna be set.

Thanks, everyone for your replies, comments and advice. I love this place. The knowledge base is so deep. Experience from the casual to the expert. And since I fall somewhere in there, hearing all of it was perfect.

[Fred Perreault]

Saw chains are mfg'd in numerous configurations for assorted special and general operations. The shape of the cutting link, coupled with the various sharpening angles and the number of cutting links per foot in association with the style of raker link or links all go into making a useful chain saw chain. By design, some styles are very safe, but there are others that by design are very dangerous. 3 of the same style chain, all sharpened/tuned differently, might perform in a different manner from one to the other. It is not rocket science, but there is much to know about chain saw chain. And even the people who make a living every day with one, or more, of these roaring death threats don't often agree on what's better or best. Most retailers and marketers may not know enough to send you in the right direction, but there is enough info as near as a computer keyboard to answer nearly any questions. Below are some pics, showing cutting link configuration. The links that join the cutters have many configurations and uses, as well. Sorry about the small size os some, but enlarging causewd pixelation.

[Mike Cruz]

Ya see, Fred? Ya see? Pictures I tell ya...they say more than 1000 words! That is exactly what I was trying to explain. The one on the far left (in the drawing) is the safety chain that I generally use. The middle one is the one I have now designated as my lathe blank cutting chain. I don't have, don't plan to have, and don't need the one on the right. I, too, am experienced in cutting wood, I just never knew this much about chains... Thanks for the pics, info and clarification. Again, I love this place.

[Neil Strong]

I don't have, don't plan to have, and don't need the one on the right.

And, you are also saving yourself the rigors of sharpening a full square chisel chain. Something that you wouldn't want to tackle until you are very proficient with round and semi-chisel chain.

.....

[Frank Drew]

I know Oregon used to sell a rip tooth chain, and may still; I found that it ripped a bit faster than the regular chain I was using, not unlike the advantage of a ripping blade on a table saw. But a square tooth chain is a great improvement over a round tooth and if you don't like changing chains is probably good enough unless all you're doing if rip cutting.

[Mike Cruz]

Oops, Fred, I replied to this post but I seem to have done it after one of your other posts. Sorry. Here's what I said:

Ya see, Fred? Ya see? Pictures I tell ya...they say more than 1000 words! That is exactly what I was trying to explain. The one on the far left (in the drawing) is the safety chain that I generally use. The middle one is the one I have now designated as my lathe blank cutting chain. I don't have, don't plan to have, and don't need the one on the right. I, too, am experienced in cutting wood, I just never knew this much about chains... Thanks for the pics, info and clarification. Again, I love this place.

[Jim King]

Ummmm, what kinda wood is that? For those boys to be carrying those be pieces, they must not be that dense? :confused: Right? :eek:


Mike:
The cants weigh more than the little guys carrying them. Most of our woods wont float. To make it worse they come out laughing and joking and run back for the next one. I have a hard time lifting one end.

[Neil Strong]

Mike:
The cants weigh more than the little guys carrying them. Most of our woods wont float. To make it worse they come out laughing and joking and run back for the next one. I have a hard time lifting one end.

Looks like the ears of your chainsawyers are extra tough too. Most Westerners would be stone deaf after a year of doing that without hearing protection.

.

[Mike Cruz]

Neil, your D-KE sig is priceless. My wife loves it, BTW...

[Neil Strong]

Neil, your D-KE sig is priceless. My wife loves it, BTW...

What can I say, Mike.... let's drink to the D-KE... :D

.