Zero Pressure Cooling System in your car

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.evanscooling.com/npg/

Anyone have any experience here? This is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing.

BMWs are known for having their PLASTIC (yes, plastic) radiators explode.

I just picked up a myriad of items to basically replace the cooling system on my own BMW....

I have a link to a BMW forum that has a long thread discussing this very thing...PM me if you're interested in seeing it.

[Dan Hintz]

Where does the no-pressure part come in? All I see is a coolant that does not require watering down...

[Mitchell Andrus]

Cooling systems are under pressure so the coolant can exceed 212 degrees.

The coolant is rated to certain specs at 0 pressure (typically sea level bar.), it does not say the systems need to be 0 pressure.

Boiling at 375 degrees at sea level is nice but if your engine's coolant hits that, you have a problem.
.

[Chris Padilla]

It really isn't zero pressure but the boiling point of this fluid is very high so presumably, the system will not pressurize very much under normal engine operating temperatures.

As you know, when water boils and turns to steam, it expands tremendously and thus it increases the pressure inside a car's cooling system. This increase in pressure will serve to increase the boiling point of the water thus allowing it to stay liquid water at higher temperature than normal zero pressure (sea-level) conditions. Think about a pressure cooker...same thing.

So the main point is: this fluid allows zero to very low pressure in the cooling system of a car and thus this might lead one to believe that the components of the cooling system might last longer if under less pressure (i.e. less stress).

Even though I have connections that get me very very VERY good prices on OEM BMW parts, it still cost me ~$600 in parts plus several evenings of work to revamp the cooling system of my car. This fluid, while pricey, might prevent me from ever having to do this work again.

But, I wonder if there are other good reasons that one might want their car's cooling system under pressure?

I'm not sure if I'm going for it or not. Hmmm....

[Rod Sheridan]

The coolant in an engine requires corrosion inhibitors to prevent galvanic action from electrically machining your engine into crumbs.

This is what "wears out" in the coolant, so we test the coolant on annual basis in large engines, and add corrosion inhibitors.

Eventually (3 years for conventional and 6 years for long life) we change the coolant.

Then the lab analysis/corrosion inhibitor addition until the coolant once again is at end of life.

I have a hard time believing that they have a "lifetime" coolant unless lifetime is defined as the time period until it needs replacement.

Regards, Rod.

[David Woodruff]

Most vehicles, practically all run under some pressure approaching 12-15 psi. I had never heard of BMW's zero pressure system. Interesting??

[Chris Padilla]

David,

This isn't specific to BMWs...that is just what I have and they are known to have leaks and exploding cooling system components. Just one of the joys of owning one, I guess.

[ray hampton]

water boils at 212 degrees at zero psi but if the unit are sealed so that the steam can not escape then the boiling point will increase quick-----no psi/no increase in temperature

[Dan Hintz]

water boils at 212 degrees at zero psi but if the unit are sealed so that the steam can not escape then the boiling point will increase quick-----no psi/no increase in temperature
..............

[John Lanciani]

As pressure increases, so does boiling point.

[Dan Hintz]

Bah, confused myself with my own wording :rolleyes: My mind was telling me as pressure goes up, less and less material goes to vapor... but my fingers were saying otherwise. <sigh>

[Chris Padilla]

Where are all those links about learning physics now? ;) haha

[Dan Hintz]

Ouch ;) Touche...

[John Coloccia]

If only there were some substance we could make a radiator out of other than plastic... :rolleyes:

I'm on Volvo radiator number 3, by the way.

[Mitchell Andrus]

..............

I think that means Dan's biting his tongue.
.

[Mitchell Andrus]

If only there were some substance we could make a radiator out of other than plastic... :rolleyes:

I'm on Volvo radiator number 3, by the way.

Oh... oh..... I know..... Cast Iron!!!!!
.

[ray hampton]

one copper radiator=1000 dollars but will out last your car and will sell for scrap metal ---10 plastic radiator cost 2000 dollars but no scrap value [ all value are a estimated ]

[Lee Schierer]

I thought he was banging his head on the keyboard........


Ethylene glycol boiling point vs. concentration in water Weight Percent EG (%) Boiling Point (deg F)
0 212
10 215
20 215
30 220
40 220
50 225
60 230
70 240
80 255
90 285
100 387

Why not use 100% ethylene glycol solution and save some money...

[ray hampton]

I thought he was banging his head on the keyboard........


Ethylene glycol boiling point vs. concentration in water Weight Percent EG (%) Boiling Point (deg F)
0 212
10 215
20 215
30 220
40 220
50 225
60 230
70 240
80 255
90 285
100 387

Why not use 100% ethylene glycol solution and save some money...


how do we account for the temperature range between 90 and 100 %

[Chris Padilla]

I thought he was banging his head on the keyboard........


Ethylene glycol boiling point vs. concentration in water Weight Percent EG (%) Boiling Point (deg F)
0 212
10 215
20 215
30 220
40 220
50 225
60 230
70 240
80 255
90 285
100 387

Why not use 100% ethylene glycol solution and save some money...

Water has a higher specific heat...the ethylene is there for a couple reasons: lower freezing point and corrosion protection.

[Chris Padilla]

how do we account for the temperature range between 90 and 100 %

Me thinks the '3' is supposed to be a '2'. :)

[Chris Padilla]

one copper radiator=1000 dollars but will out last your car and will sell for scrap metal ---10 plastic radiator cost 2000 dollars but no scrap value [ all value are a estimated ]

Well, in all fairness...the BMW one I have is mostly aluminum but it has plastic on the sides and this is where the molded in connection point for the hoses exists. Further, this connection point is the #1 spot for failure.

[Chris Padilla]

If only there were some substance we could make a radiator out of other than plastic... :rolleyes:

I'm on Volvo radiator number 3, by the way.

About how many miles between replacement, John? I'm at 97k so we'll call mine 100k for replacement #1. :)

[John Coloccia]

About how many miles between replacement, John? I'm at 97k so we'll call mine 100k for replacement #1. :)

The first one died at 87000. Then I drove it cross country and it developped a slow leak throw death valley. That was at about 100000. Mine were developping leaks where the plastic joined the metal. I think it's just flexing because of the different CTEs. With less extreme temperatures, it seems to be OK.

[Tom Godley]

Are you talking about the end-caps? They do fail -- especially if they overheat.

Sometimes the gaskets also go.

One of the biggest problems is the upper hose connection on the end-caps. The plastic gets brittle and with the pressure of the hose clamp the connection fails.

This has been a problem with a lot of makes as the cars age -- failure is often caused when the thermostat fails and the system overheats.

I'm not sure what this product is going to achieve?

[Mitchell Andrus]

I'm not sure what this product is going to achieve?

Just guessing... It might have been developed for race cars or speed boats. Or an industrial use or potential food contact. Looking for a bigger audience.
.

[Walt Nicholson]

I've seen it used a fair amount in street rods with large, high compression engines in small confined spaces with limited space for radiators and airflow. Couple of guys said the best thing they ever tried.