unable to loosen bolts on planer head

[Zach England]

I am unable to loosen the allen bolts on my planer head. I have only been able to remove one and have hollowed out the heads of several and broken a few hex keys. I sprayed some penetrating oil but it has not helped. Is there any advice to be had, or do I need to throw this cheap ridgid planer out (which I am tempted to do for a number of reasons) and start over? I am extremely frustrated. Please advise.

Thanks, as always.

[george wilson]

The bolts on jointers also tend to get frozen. Maybe from moisture in the wood,a little corrosion from wood?

It isn't good you have rounded out some of the screws. I suggest putting the allen wrench into each stubborn one,and giving it a few sharp whacks with a small hammer. This helps break loose small corrosion. Next,grind the end of the allen wrench square to resharpen it. Get rid of any rounded corners on the wrench,and try again.

I ALSO RECOMMEND getting a GOOD set of Allen brand wrenches. Some cheap,or especially import wrenches are made of softer steel. Elkind are good. ALSO,if you get those stuck screws out,buy some UNBREAKO (sp?) or HOLOCHROME(sp?) screws. You'll have to buy a whole box,but it is a good investment. They are probably metric. Be sure you know what you are ordering. Take a screw you do get out to the local hardware store,and compare it till you get it identified. Don't buy them there,though. They will be the same junk. MSC,or McMaster Carr sells the top brands(they sell junk,too). Get the good brands I recommend.


AS A LAST RESORT,heat the screws that won't come out. Don't ruin your gibs. I guess the knives are worn,so they don't matter unless you want to turn them over. HSS can stand red heat,anyway. HSS is tempered at 1000º,so don't worry about it. After you heat the screws,let them cool,apply more penetrating oil. Do you have Liquid Wrench? It could be important to use it.

If they just will not come out after all that,you can buy a set of GOOD bolt extractors,but don't buy import junk. get a good($) set. Get the tapered square type. They are better than the twisted ones,buy cheap import sets may be too brittle,or too soft to bite. You may have to grind the end off the one that goes into the worn screws if it isn't tight enough. Drive it in,and try to turn the screw out.

DO leave a few days for the Liquid wrench to get in there regardless of heating,or whatever.

If I HAD to get the screws out, and all else failed,I'd buy a straight flute carbide drill that is the ROOT DIAMETER of the threads,and drill them out,and re tap the threads AFTER you have identified the thread. I used to do this several times a year for the gunsmith and blacksmith's shops.

It may be that you would have to take the cutter head out of the planer to get at it for drilling.

This may not help you much. I used to get lots of small broken off HSS taps in blind holes. I would put these in the vertical mill. I had a selection of small,solid carbide,titanium nitride coated(TIN) wend mills. I'd get the right sized one in the mill,run it about 2000 rpm,and mill out the broken taps like butter. I could mill them out so well that only the original threads would be left in the hole,but I had mills just the right diameter,and the eye to get the mill exactly centered in the hole. There isn't to much other means to get rid of HSS taps,unless you have an EDM machine(I didn't),which is the more common way to do it.

[John Bush]

I use an impact screwdriver. It produces a slight counterclockwise rotation when you strike it with a hammer. My jointer has "torx?" head screws and I use the bit that came with the machine. It does the job for me. True confessions: Harbor Freight---under $10. Good luck.

[Will Overton]

It's a good practice when trying to loosen bolts and finding them stuck, to try tightening them first. This will often free whatever is causing them to stick.

[Gary Muto]

I just went through the same ordeal. I tried penetrating oil and used a 12V impact driver and still had 4 that would not come loose. I tried tightening and then loosening and that didn't work. Then I got out my old 3/8" drive pneumatic impact driver. It spun the bolts right out. I suggest getting/borrowing one of those for the time it will save you. Once I got the bolts out I cleaned them (no rust at all) and applied anti-sieze compound before installing.

[Luther Oswalt]

I have been very pleased with "BP Blaster" when trying to remove a stubborn bolt like the ones you are having trouble with. You can get a spray can or a gallon can at a hardware store or farm store! It is amazing stuff. I like it much better than any other pentrating oil and I have used many different pentrating oils over the years!Follow the directions on the container and you may have them out soon! Good Luck!
Leo

[Zach England]

I have been very pleased with "BP Blaster" when trying to remove a stubborn bolt like the ones you are having trouble with. You can get a spray can or a gallon can at a hardware store or farm store! It is amazing stuff. I like it much better than any other pentrating oil and I have used many different pentrating oils over the years!Follow the directions on the container and you may have them out soon! Good Luck!
Leo

This is precisely what I am using. I gave the head a liberal coat of it last night. Hopefully there will be progress today.

Thanks for the advice.

That jointer/planer combo machine is suddenly looking more and more affordable...

[Matt Day]

An impact driver would be great, but I think Zach's problem now is that he's got some stripped allen bolts. Once you round them out I think there are 2 options. 1, drill out the head as the previous poster mentioned. 2, using a rotary tool with a cutting disc, cut a slot for a flat screwdriver.

Over the years as a bicycle mechanic this happens quite a bit and the 2 options above work.

Oh, and I also suggest making sure you have good allen wrenches. My favorites are Bondus with the rounded head on the long end (good for angles and removing once they're loosened, but they're more likely to strip with the rounded end).

[Zach England]

Can you suggest somewhere to get good allen wrenches? Mine are "Kobalt" (lowes house brand), and truth be told were perfectly adequate until last night. They definitely lasted a lot longer (that is they stripped more bolts) than the grossly useless "wrench" that came with the planer.

What I'd like to know is why I stripped 5-6 of these things. In retrospect it seems I should have taken a different approach after stripping one.

I like the slot cutting with the angle grinder. If nothing else it will hasten the destruction of the entire cutter head and force me to move on from this quixotic nonsense.



An impact driver would be great, but I think Zach's problem now is that he's got some stripped allen bolts. Once you round them out I think there are 2 options. 1, drill out the head as the previous poster mentioned. 2, using a rotary tool with a cutting disc, cut a slot for a flat screwdriver.

Over the years as a bicycle mechanic this happens quite a bit and the 2 options above work.

Oh, and I also suggest making sure you have good allen wrenches. My favorites are Bondus with the rounded head on the long end (good for angles and removing once they're loosened, but they're more likely to strip with the rounded end).

[george wilson]

Zach,re-read my post#1 above. I told you where to get them. Good luck. Others made good tips,too,but take advantage of my tips,too.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

1. Using punch, tap on the punchd and deliver physical shock to the allen hole in the screw.

2. Then using an "easy out", tap it into the screw and try backing it out.

[Zach England]

Thanks, everyone.

If you can't tell, I don't work on cars and have never really been exposed to mechanical work. When others were taking high school shop I was taking art history.

[Jason Roehl]

Popular Mechanics did a test of several penetrating-type lubricants, and the one that came up best by quite a bit was a homebrew of 1/2 acetone and 1/2 automatic transmission fluid.

[Mark Patoka]

I had that happen with my Ryobi planer. I ended up drilling into the bolt, using a smaller-than-the-hole diameter bit and then used those square tapered extractors and was able to remove what was left of the bolt. I was fortunate and didn't ruin the threads in the hole so I replaced those screws with some hex-head bolts. If you use hex-head, make sure they don't protrude too far above the knife to cause clearance issues.

[keith micinski]

Penetrating oil is a scam. None of them do anything. If the bolt is stuck in there because of rust they aren't going to dissolve rust I don't care what they say. Stick a rusty bolt in a cup for a few days and at the en you still have a rusty bolt. If the bolt has been over tightened the penetrating oil isn't all of the sudden going to apply torque to the bolt and loosen it. Two things take bolts out. Heat and more Torque.

[Zach England]

Would it be foolish to remove the head and mount it between some scrap wood in my bench vise so I can fit my impact driver in there?

[Gary Muto]

I would remove the head if you plan on using a hammer actuated impact driver, but it sounds like you don't have much left to grab. I've had luck with the Craftsman bolt removers that fit around the outside of a stripped hex bolt. If your allen head bolts have tapered sides (pan head?) then these would not work. George recommended the bolt removers that go into Phillips/torx/Allen screws and that is probably more appropriate. I haven't tried those but they look promising.

Anyway, I think removing the head will prevent further damage and make the rest of this process go easier for you.
FWIW, earlier in the discussion I mentioned the pneumatic impact driver for general information since the percussion removes stubborn bolts w/o breakage or stripping. The impact is also rotary so there is no chance of bending the shaft/head. It's an ounce of prevention that may help others in the future. My 2¢

[Chuck Wintle]

what has worked for me is to heat the stuck bolt with a propane torch, getting it as hot as possible, and cool the bolt completely by spraying it with WD 40. Repeat this sequence several times, 2 or 3 times at least. Use an impact driver to remove the bolt.

[dan petroski]

try oil of wintergreen for a penetrant. pb is good,acetone and atf is better this stuff is 5 times better. my wife's is a antique sewing machine restorer. she swears by it.

[Zach England]

Got the impact driver in there, but no luck on the really stuck ones. By this point the heads are trashed beyond any use. Tonight I am going to remove the cutterhead completely so I can get an angle grinder to them (won't fit with head in machine) and do what someone mentioned about cutting them into slot screws.

[Gary Pennington]

Wondering about the use of anti seize compounds??

I'm ready to change my jointer and planer blades for the first time. I'm expecting some issues removing bolts, but am wondering about the value of using Never Seeze (I think is the spelling) or other product on the threads at reassembly that supposedly keeps threads from locking. Does anyone have experience with these compounds in this application?

Thanks, Gary

[Rod Sheridan]

Wondering about the use of anti seize compounds??

I'm ready to change my jointer and planer blades for the first time. I'm expecting some issues removing bolts, but am wondering about the value of using Never Seeze (I think is the spelling) or other product on the threads at reassembly that supposedly keeps threads from locking. Does anyone have experience with these compounds in this application?

Thanks, Gary

I always use a very small amount of copper anti-sieze compound on the screws.

I do mean a very small amount, brush some on, clean most of it off with a paper towel.

Bear in mind that if you torque the fastener, you'll have to determine what to use as the new torque if you aren't using dry fasteners.

Regards, Rod.

[del schisler]

I am unable to loosen the allen bolts on my planer head. I have only been able to remove one and have hollowed out the heads of several and broken a few hex keys. I sprayed some penetrating oil but it has not helped. Is there any advice to be had, or do I need to throw this cheap ridgid planer out (which I am tempted to do for a number of reasons) and start over? I am extremely frustrated. Please advise.

Thanks, as always.

life time warrenty ?? Is it the T1300? I have taken a drum sander back once. It was way over a yr old. They gave me a new one. Take it to a warrenty center?

[del schisler]

I am unable to loosen the allen bolts on my planer head. I have only been able to remove one and have hollowed out the heads of several and broken a few hex keys. I sprayed some penetrating oil but it has not helped. Is there any advice to be had, or do I need to throw this cheap ridgid planer out (which I am tempted to do for a number of reasons) and start over? I am extremely frustrated. Please advise.

Thanks, as always.

i made a post already got to thinking My planer has bolt's?? The jointer has allen's? How old is your planer . They have a life time warrenty ??

[Zach England]

i made a post already got to thinking My planer has bolt's?? The jointer has allen's? How old is your planer . They have a life time warrenty ??


The Ridgid has a lifetime warranty? I bought mine "reconditioned" and any warranty I HAD has probably been voided considering the thing is in a bazillion pieces at the moment. I'll check my paperwork.

[scott spencer]

I also use an impact driver with a hex bit...works like a charm.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I would refrain from using an impact driver (the kind you hit with a hammer) on any sort of rotating machinery unless you plan to replace the bearings- you will damage them. You might also bend the shafts, which is just as bad.

If these are screws with heads (not set screws) holding down the gib, go ahead and grind the heads off. Once the tension is released on the shank of the screw, they should be easy to back out with a pair of vise grips over the stump.

[Zach England]

I hate to keep bumping this, as everyone has been so gracious to offer help for such a moronic problem, but I need to know if anyone can advise on the necessary steps to remove the cutterhead entirely. I am having trouble figuring out the pieces I need to remove first and the manual is predictably useless. Do I need to remove the rollers and chains? I removed those once and it was a real PITA to get them back on.

[Callan Campbell]

I feel you pain. I deal with seized, rusted, or stripped fasteners of all types, and all good to really bad locations on a daily work basis. Everyone listed great tips, I really only added one to the list, that you may or may not be able to use.
+1 on planning to get better Allen Wrench Sets in the future. Won't help your already stripped bolts, but may prevent future headaches. If the head material of the bolts are soft, no wrench helps much if the torque required to loosen the fastener exceeds what the bolt will put up with without distorting/stripping out. Allen head bolts are notorious for this if they're of a cheap/soft variety.

Vise Grips, plus 1, if you have the room to swing them once you've clamped onto the bolt head. Sometimes the Needle-nose versions get me out of a jam when there's not enough room for the full sized pliers

Cutting a slot into the bolt head with an abrasive disc cutter, great tip, and one we mechanics use all the time for rusted out Phillips headed screws that we see on a daily basis. A Dremel tool with its tiny wheels will get into a tight spot really nice.

Hand Impact drive , or a power impact. good, but if the bolt material is soft, will possibly speed up stripping a fastener head if too much power is applied. Sometimes the "Tighten first, then loosen" trick works well with the power tools.

Use Valve Grinding compound paste, apply it to your Allen wrench or stick some in the hole of the bolt head. Won't save a stripped bolt head, but can REALLY help grip with decent shaped fasteners openings that haven't fallen apart yet. Acts like sandpaper, grabbing all the surfaces and increasing your grip on a poor looking bolt due to rust or surface degrading of the bolt material. You can buy it at Auto Parts Stores, or some better equipped hardware stores. works great for Phillips or other internal grip fasteners like Torx or Square Drive too.

Heat, yes, the "Flame Wrench" works, but can also RUIN ANYTHING if you're not careful. Depending on what's around the bolts in question, and what they're screwed into, you may or may not cause problems you didn't have from warped/damaged due to excessive heat.

Penetrating Oil a SCAM? What? I have to differ with this statement. Some work well, some don't. some are being used in applications that no oil would have worked well in, or can't reach the rust/corrosion to begin working at all. As a Tech, Liquids are all we have at times if there's anything flammable near the seized fastener we want to remove like, umm, a gas line or gas tank. I've used lots of penetrating oil over the past 2 decades, save my butt plenty of times.

What no one mentioned ,I think, and you need an Air Compressor for, is using an Air Hammer with a straight chisel bit to hit/drive the side of the fastener head loose. You're walking the bolt loose a bit, till you can either use the tool that normally works with it to fully remove it, or that pair of vise grips. Takes some getting used to to angle the chisel bit just right, at an angle that is in the direction you need the bolt to rotate and loosen, but this trick works well for many applications.
Using a hammer and chisel by hand might also work, but the force applied to your planer or machine parts while using hand power may also break or bend something else. The air hammer, set to a low power setting, will act like thousands of small blows, that trying to match by human power would tire you out right away. It's that repetition of the hammering force that often shocks the threads loose on a stubborn bolt. Much like using a socket and Impact Air Wrench to loosen a bolt.

Anti-Seize Compound. YESSSSSSSSS. Oneway Lathe Company out of Canada practically begs you to use it on their latch chuck hardware since they are fully aware that the shock from lathe work can tighten up the bolts during normal use, and yep, they're using small Allen head bolts for their chuck hardware. Apply a dap on all the bolts as you install them back into the tool.I have all 3 main types, zinc based, copper based, and the Ceramic type that I get from Griots Garage for applications where I don't want the mess of the first two to get on my clothing from accidental contact[ Anti-seize compound in a clothes washer can be a real marriage strain/relationship hazard....:p:p:D]
Zach, I hope this helps you out.

[Matt Day]

Zach,

Could you post some pictures fo the cutterhead and screws? That might help some of us.

Bondhus allen wrenches are available at some bicycle shops, and they all can order them if they aren't in stock. And there are plenty of bike shops here in SLC - try calling around and seeing if any have them in stock. Sorry, but I haven't been here long enough to recommend one to you.

[Scott Velie]

if your still at a loss finding good Allen wrenches stop by your local auto shop or dealer and ask them what day the Snap-on guy comes. Come back on that day and see him. You will have to pay cash but they are excellent. I usually use the socket wrench type Allen's. It is easier to both strike the screw and put inward pressure on it while turning.

[Ronald Blue]

If the head still has some holding power then the hammer blow impact driver may work. The combination of shock combined with the twist action sometimes will do the job. The other option is to drill them using a drill the same size as the screw. If it's a 1/4-20 then use a 1/4" drill. Go easy and when you get to the base of the head it will pop off because you have removed all the material but you should still have ample bolt remaining to grip with vise grips or pliers. Use a good high quality high speed drill. If these were good quality screws then they will not drill easily. As for damaging the bearings with an impact driver. The bearings are much tougher then that. However since they are almost certainly ball bearings don't side load them because that is the easiest way to wreck them. Good luck and keep us posted.

[David Woodruff]

Torque, Impact, Heat, Impact, Torque, Remove. In that order.
It is good thing to conclude early on that mere grunt ain't working. Heat works wonders and I am only talking about 700-800 degrees F. Propane torch heat. Good Luck. When you put the beast back together use Loctite Copper anti-seize on the threads.

[Tom Esh]

Mild heating is usually my first choice (and if thread-locking compound was used in assembly often the only choice). I've used a torch in a pinch, but it can be tricky not to overheat or damage something else nearby. A cheap variable-temp heat gun is one of the handiest things you can have in a shop. Just a minute or two on low heat and most things pop right loose. About the only time I need penetrating lube is for rusted parts.

[Zach England]

Some asked for pictures, so here is what I am looking at now. I've got everything disassembled to the point where I have access to the drive mechanism of the cutterhead and I am having trouble loosening the nut you see from the arbor. Does that make sense? Basically, I cannot immobilize the head adequately to remove the nut.

[Josiah Bartlett]

If the head still has some holding power then the hammer blow impact driver may work. The combination of shock combined with the twist action sometimes will do the job. The other option is to drill them using a drill the same size as the screw. If it's a 1/4-20 then use a 1/4" drill. Go easy and when you get to the base of the head it will pop off because you have removed all the material but you should still have ample bolt remaining to grip with vise grips or pliers. Use a good high quality high speed drill. If these were good quality screws then they will not drill easily. As for damaging the bearings with an impact driver. The bearings are much tougher then that. However since they are almost certainly ball bearings don't side load them because that is the easiest way to wreck them. Good luck and keep us posted.

Bearings are only tough when they are spinning and developing an oil film under the balls. It is amazingly easy to damage a ball bearing race with an impact when it is not rotating due to the nearly point contact of a ball on the race. Barrel/roller and sleeve bearings are a different story.

[keith micinski]

Put the belt back on and then put a small clamp on the belt to hold the arbor from spinning. Also there might be a head lock on that planer when the belt is on and the cover is open. My dewalt is that way but I am not sure about yours. Also if you had any kind of an impact it would take the nut right off and you could hold the pulley with your hand. I think your best bet for getting those bolts out that are stripped is to take a dremmel and cut the slot in it for a large flat blade screw driver. The bigger the better. If the slots still strip out then I would take the Dremmel tool and grind the tops of the heads off. This should leave you with enough room once the blade is removed to get a pair of vise grips on it to remove it. Also you have not said if you are using heat to remove any of this stuff but I can not stress enough that a little heat in the right area ALWAYS works every time.

[Zach England]

Put the belt back on and then put a small clamp on the belt to hold the arbor from spinning. Also there might be a head lock on that planer when the belt is on and the cover is open. My dewalt is that way but I am not sure about yours. Also if you had any kind of an impact it would take the nut right off and you could hold the pulley with your hand. I think your best bet for getting those bolts out that are stripped is to take a dremmel and cut the slot in it for a large flat blade screw driver. The bigger the better. If the slots still strip out then I would take the Dremmel tool and grind the tops of the heads off. This should leave you with enough room once the blade is removed to get a pair of vise grips on it to remove it. Also you have not said if you are using heat to remove any of this stuff but I can not stress enough that a little heat in the right area ALWAYS works every time.


Thanks. I will try that. There is a head lock, but it does not stay in position when I try to turn the nut. I can actually disengage is just by spinning the wheel slightly with my hand, so I removed it to keep it out of the way. The slot screwdriver is precisely what I am trying to do, but I cannot get my angle grinder in there without removing the head. I didn't consider a dremel tool, though. I'll re-visit that tonight.

[Chip Lindley]

...What I'd like to know is why I stripped 5-6 of these things. In retrospect it seems I should have taken a different approach after stripping one.


Let's never overlook the "obvious!" Are you turning in the "wrong" direction? These are headless Allen-head screws? To loosen those for knife removal, they must be turned counterclockwise, just as a regular RH screw.

This conventional wisdom is just opposite of loosening hex-head jib bolts, which must be tightened, by turning clockwise into the jib.

Did Ridgid become dyslexic and use LH-threaded jib screws just to confuse everyone? Makes me wonder!

IMO, the whole mess should be bundled up and returned to where you bought it. If you express enough intense displeasure over the machine (aka Ranting) you should receive a replacement or a refund. If all else fails, disclose that you are on the virge of an accute mental breakdown, and Ridgid will receive the bills for your diagnosis, treatment, and continued rehab therapy!

[Ronald Blue]

Ball bearings run in a track just as a cylindrical roller bearing does. Take one apart and see for yourself. I spent 19 years in bearing manufacturing so I have saw what bearings can and can't take. If you are concerned though replacement bearings are pretty cheap. I am sure they will be a double shielded metric series ball bearing.

[mickey cassiba]

About 3/4s of the time, if you can remove the head of a bolt/screw, the press of thread against thread are relieved, allowing the resulting stub to be removed fairly easily.
!!!Disclaimer!!!
I did say "about 3/4s of the time"
YMMV
Mick

[Keith Weber]

I had a tough time getting out some inset allen screws that were seized on an impeller shaft. The L-shaped allen wrenches felt like they were going to break or strip under torque. Penetrant overnight didn't seem to help. I ended up using my ratchet-style pneumatic impact wrench with a hex socket and it worked like they were never stuck in the first place. A little impact action goes a long way. Don't use an impact hammer that you strike with a hammer. You could damage something on your planer with those. As others have said, use quality tools. There's no comparing a Snap-On wrench to a Made in China one. One is designed to perform a function, and the other is made to look like the one that performs.

Keith