Older Dewalt RAS vs SCMS

[david brum]

You might think this is a little crazy, but I've been idly thinking of replacing my Hitachi slider with a veteran De Walt RAS. I keep reading glowing reports of how accurate, versatile and smooth these older RASs are. They are also plentiful and cheap around here. So here are my questions (and please understand that I have zero experience with a RASs and already have a good slider):

1) In the final analysis, all nostalgia aside, IS a really good, really well tuned De Walt RAS as accurate as my slider? For both miters and crosscutting? Does it replace a miter saw?

2) Can I count on doing an accurate miter cut and having the saw return to a perfect 90 degrees for crosscutting without a cumbersome jig? Reports seem a little vague about this. Many state that they keep their saws only for crosscuts.

I like old iron as well as the next guy, but am not willing to sacrifice performance. I also don't want to spend a bunch of time setting everything up, only to discover that I wish I'd kept the slider. Thanks in advance for your comments. Please keep in mind that I'm specifically asking advice about older, cast iron De Walt RASs.

[Matt Hankins]

David,

I don't think that you can expect a radial arm saw to be a permanent precision tool. It certainly can be tuned to be precise, but it never seems to stay that way. I feel that a RAS is useful for bucking up rough material and giving you that extra cutting width when you need it. It can also be used with a dado head for joinery work. Setting it up for a specific task like that works well. I just don't think you can expect it to be true and precise every time you turn it on. If you have the room, get the RAS and keep the slider as well. I think you will find that each has its place and use. If it has to be one or the other I would hold on to your miter saw. Just one guy's opinion.

Matt

[david brum]

Thanks Matt. That's what I was wondering. I thought maybe I was missing out on something. My slider does a 12" crosscut which works OK for me for most applications. Since it would be an either/or situation for me, I think I'll stick with what I've got. Too bad, those RASs look cool.

[Neal Clayton]

you can get them precise for crosscuts but moving it away from that requires a painful re-alignment back to 90 degrees. the only exception to this is the unipoint saws, since they have a much better design on miter/bevel movement than column style arm saws do. i use my unipoint as a miter saw replacement, but wouldn't try to use a column/arm style saw in the same way due to the re-alignment headaches.

monitor craigslist for 30-50 year old unipoints, if one ever comes up for sale cheap, you have your solution ;). the smaller ones from around the time northfield bought out the company that originally made them are getting kinda rare, though. they aren't as common as the old dewalts.

[david brum]

Thanks Neal, I'll keep my eyes peeled. Sounds like a good solution.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Don't forget that a well tuned RAS with a dado cutter can be most useful.

[Chip Lindley]

The RAS/SMCS debate is eternal! I have never found that one necessisarily replaces the other. Apples & Oranges! Both do similar work, but have different strengths/weaknesses. Cast iron wears LESS than aluminum. It also weighs MORE. A SCMS has worksite portability when needed. A "good" RAS can have accurate, repeatable settings when it was accurately factory-machined, then maintained, adjusted and not abused. Each RAS or SCMS must be accessed on it's own merits. Any blanket approval (or disapproval) is meaningless. With either tool you can find Trash or Treasure!

[Homer Faucett]

David,

I don't think that you can expect a radial arm saw to be a permanent precision tool. It certainly can be tuned to be precise, but it never seems to stay that way. I feel that a RAS is useful for bucking up rough material and giving you that extra cutting width when you need it. It can also be used with a dado head for joinery work. Setting it up for a specific task like that works well. I just don't think you can expect it to be true and precise every time you turn it on. If you have the room, get the RAS and keep the slider as well. I think you will find that each has its place and use. If it has to be one or the other I would hold on to your miter saw. Just one guy's opinion.

Matt
I'm not sure which RAS's you're using, but all the old DeWaltsI've owned stay locked in where I put them. The CI makes them FAR more accurate than most SCMS's.

[Neal Clayton]

The RAS/SMCS debate is eternal! I have never found that one necessisarily replaces the other. Apples & Oranges! Both do similar work, but have different strengths/weaknesses. Cast iron wears LESS than aluminum. It also weighs MORE. A SCMS has worksite portability when needed. A "good" RAS can have accurate, repeatable settings when it was accurately factory-machined, then maintained, adjusted and not abused. Each RAS or SCMS must be accessed on it's own merits. Any blanket approval (or disapproval) is meaningless. With either tool you can find Trash or Treasure!

you can have a portable RAS! it says so right here in the 1948 marketing brochure for mine...

it only weighs ~300 pounds, and has a 110v single phase motor. all cast, but cast from a 'modern' magnesium alloy rather than iron (i'm guessing the magnesium factory fires were why they named this model TNT)

i figure if you're an NFL lineman, olympic wrestler, heavyweight boxer, or equivalent you should have no trouble carrying it around by yourself.

[Sam Layton]

Hi David,

I am doing just as you are thinking. I purchased a 1957 DeWalt 10" GWI radial arm saw that I am restoring. I am going to replace my scms with it. I will use the ras for only 90 deg cuts, and keep the scms portable for miter cuts.

A good friend of mine has an older DeWalt radial arm saw for 90 deg cuts only, and his scms for miter cuts. His DeWalt has cut perfect 90's for years without adjustment.

Sam

[Steve Griffin]

I worked in a million dollar shop that had a mint condition RAS. We nicknamed it the "finicky old lady".

If you don't care about portability, and are convinced you only need to cut 90Degrees, and like hanging with finicky old ladies, then RAS is the only way to go.:D

-Steve

[Don Jarvie]

An old Dewalt or Delta from the 50s/early 60s tuned up and setup correctly will be a better performer than a SCMS.

I've used sliders in the past and always have trouble with the 45 deg cut ((think straight cut at 45 deg) and on my Delta RAS its no issue. Sets back to 90 deg everytime.

Keep in mind most of these saws need work and not everyone wants to tear it aprt and put it back together.

[Phil Thien]

I'm surprised you guys with experience with radial arm saws didn't find them accurate and repeatable. Didn't they have 90-degree locks or anything like that?

The arms on every SCMS I've used have deflected enough with pressure to make me thing a RAS would be more accurate. But I haven't used one (RAS) much.

[Myk Rian]

I'm surprised you guys with experience with radial arm saws didn't find them accurate and repeatable. Didn't they have 90-degree locks or anything like that?

The arms on every SCMS I've used have deflected enough with pressure to make me thing a RAS would be more accurate. But I haven't used one (RAS) much.
I'm with you Phil. They must have been using newer C-man RASs.

My DeWalt MBF has held alignment no matter how many times I change the cut angle. It is a rock solid saw. You just can't say that about an SCMS.
You can have problems if you don't know how to adjust it properly in the first place. Once you get it right, they stay right.

[david brum]

Oh man, I was all set to give up on a RAS and now you guys are making think that I need one. I just watched Mark Duginske's video (on Utube) about setting up an accurate RAS. It doesn't really seem like much more work than setting up a table saw, and definitely less than setting up a planer.

I'm hearing that most De Walts are pretty good, but especially the ones with elevation cranks on the column. Does that sound right?

[rick bear]

David,

I've owned one of he newer RAS saws from Sears for several years. It was easily knocked out of alignment and was a hassle to realign.

I now own several Dewalt GWIs with the heavy cast iron arm. Stays in alignment, has a 90 degree lock and is a wonderful saw to use. The last one I bought was in perfect alignment and has been going strong for 2 years, no adjustments needed.

Be prepared if you buy one to possibly replace the bearings, align, and build a new table top.



- Rick

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David,

I have a SCMS.

At the time I bought it, I had no source for a RAS.

The most accurate MS I have ever used was a very simple 8" Craftsman..no slider.....just a very plain CMS.

If I had my druthers, I would have a RAS and a simple CMS.

I can use my stacked dado blade on a RAS. That isn't an option on my SCMS.

The SCMS...it's accurate but it seems like I have to realign it alot.

It's really a matter of personal taste and useage.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I have an even newer dewalt from the 70's with the crank up front ..
The crank introduces a few problems with belt stretch etc so I can't repeat height measurements by counting turns -- but I've been cutting miters and compound miters over the past 4 months while framing an addition with a pitched roof and I've been able to get the miters right with the scale and always return to an accurate 90 degrees. One of my best purchases. I'd like to restore a classic sometime,
but not many in this area.. Not as much population in the 50's and 60's so not many old machines in garages.

[Sean lennon]

I have a DeWalt MBF and its slightly larger brother the GWI.
Both saws use a wedge type stop on the column for positioning at 45 and 90 degrees and are extremely repeatable.

as said in above posts, there are places in the shop for both the scms and the ras in the shop, I would not want to have to carry either DeWalt very far to a worksite but so far as a precision tool for cutting at any angle I set it at and returning to a perfect 90(or 45) they are excellent.
Get the Mr. Sawdust book and remember "you need to be smarter than the machine you are running"

Have fun!
Sean