Bandsaw or Tablesaw

[Ashwini Kaul]

I have been looking to purchase a bandsaw and have been debating between a Griz 513x2 vs a Laguna LT14 SUV. While agonizing over this decision and also looking over other machines, I have continued working on my first project of such dimensions - a hulking Roubo with a 4.5" top. While working on these large pieces of Doug fir - I have come to the painful realisation that my TS sucks! I have a Ryobi BTS 21 - it was the first woodworking machine I purchased on a whim 2 years ago. While it has worked OK for small projects... it has been very reluctant to work on 2x12s... even with good dedicated ripping blades. I had anticipated this to some extent... but on more than one occasion... the motor jammed, the wood got stuck, I got covered in wood chips and a few times it was ready to tip over... while its running! You get the picture!!
While originally I had thought about getting a bandsaw for now.... delegate ripping to the BS and get by for the time being, waiting to upgrade to a Sawstop or a nice Unisaw in the not so distant future... I am wondering if I should rethink this strategy.

So here's the question:
1. Should I stick to the original plan - get the BS and then eventually upgrade the TS or
2. Shelf the BS for now and just get a nice Cabinet saw from Griz or something similar (cant afford the big guns right now).

What do you guys recommend?

[Lance Norris]

Ashwini... first, welcome. Now to your question... I would purchase the bandsaw now and get the cabinet saw when you can. You can rip on your bandsaw, but the cuts wont be as clean as a table saw. You will need to clean them up with a jointer, handplane, router, or sandpaper. You also need to do this with many cuts on the tablesaw as well, but depending on the blade and you skill level, not as much work is involved cleaning up the tablesawn edge. The bandsaw is more versitle than the tablesaw, being able to do curves and thick resaw. Many home shops could get by without a table saw, but if you do lots of large scale ripping for cabinets and the like, a table saw is the machine for that.

[Curt Harms]

if you went with a band saw for ripping, you'd need a way set up joint--IMO smaller band saws won't produce the clean straight edge a good table saw/blade combo will. There's a few ways to get a clean straight edge.
1) Power jointer
2) Jointer plane
3) Offset fence on a router table. I'm sure there are more.
If you had a saw that would handle a good carbide band like the trimaster, a bandsaw might come pretty close to a table saw cut quality. I have no experience there. I've ripped flat stock with a jointed edge on my Rikon 10-325 band saw with a Lenox carbon steel blade. I then measured several points along the ripped stock. The width was within .02" measured with a digital caliper. The piece did not have measurable bow, but the sawn edge was certainly not glue ready. Ripping on a band saw feels "uneventful", especially if ripping stock that may have reaction wood in it. My setup does require jointing after ripping on the band saw. I can get glue ready rips off a table saw with a good quality sharp blade.

[John Thompson]

I'd go for TS first over any other machine in the shop... Building a Roubo or any massive work-bench on a BT 21 is akin to digging a grave with a table-spoon. For very small projects the 21 is OK but it just won't cut in when you enter into larger carcass work. And my comments are not a bad reflection on the capabilities of a BS as I have both a 14" and 18" but.. the TS is what most shops are centered around IMO.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Ashwini,

Welcome to the Creek.

To answer your question, just my opinion, but I think the type of projects you have in mind to build will dictate which tools to obtain.

For me, my main tools are the table saw, jointer, planer, dust collector, SCMS, hollow chisel mortiser as these tools get used on every project.

Band Saw, Drill Press, Shaper after that as my use for these tools is just occasional.

Good luck with your decision and purchase.

PHM

[Willard Foster]

I would buy the Laguna.

1. You can do the rough ripping on the bandsaw, then rip a small amout (1/8") on the tablesaw to have a smoothe, straighter surface.

2. By buying the bandsaw, you will have more versatility (i.e cutting curves, resawing...)

3. Just my opinion, but if you buy the Laguna, you won't need to "upgrade" for a while. I would sugggest that you get a motor a little bigger right away. (Sorry Grizzly folks, I'm not a fan of this tool line)

Good luck,

Bill

[glenn bradley]

First off, welcome. This is a tough call for me. I am a power tool using, flatwork guy mostly. I also do scroll and fret work and use hand planes, rasps, etc. on almost every project. All that being said, the tablesaw is the cornerstone of my approach to breaking down and making parts for projects however, you would have to hold me at gunpoint to get either of my bandsaws from me.

If you already have a large jointer and planer I would get the larger bandsaw first while realizing that a tablesaw bump would be in my very near future. If you do not have a way to create a flat face on a board, the tablesaw can be a problem. Inadequately prepared stock has got to be the leading cause of tablesaw "accidents" (most aren't accidents IMHO).

If you have a way to prepare your stock, I could live without a bandsaw a lot longer than I could without a tablesaw . . . . Hmmmm I am NO help whatsoever . . . I guess if I had to choose one or the other I would take the tablsaw.

[Ashwini Kaul]

Ashwini... first, welcome. Now to your question... I would purchase the bandsaw now and get the cabinet saw when you can. You can rip on your bandsaw, but the cuts wont be as clean as a table saw. You will need to clean them up with a jointer, handplane, router, or sandpaper. You also need to do this with many cuts on the tablesaw as well, but depending on the blade and you skill level, not as much work is involved cleaning up the tablesawn edge. The bandsaw is more versitle than the tablesaw, being able to do curves and thick resaw. Many home shops could get by without a table saw, but if you do lots of large scale ripping for cabinets and the like, a table saw is the machine for that.

Thanks Lance! Been a long time lurker... only recently got the posting privileges! I am still leaning towards a bandsaw by a hair. Since I have a jointer and planer and am getting a little better each month at using my handplanes, I could deal with the roughness of the BS rips. As if figuring out which BS to purchase wasn't agonizing enough...

[Von Bickley]

I'd go for TS first over any other machine in the shop... Building a Roubo or any massive work-bench on a BT 21 is akin to digging a grave with a table-spoon. For very small projects the 21 is OK but it just won't cut in when you enter into larger carcass work. And my comments are not a bad reflection on the capabilities of a BS as I have both a 14" and 18" but.. the TS is what most shops are centered around IMO.

I agree with Sarge..... Everybody has a different opinion, but I have always built my shops around a good table saw. I know some people don't want or need a table saw, but the table saw has always been the heart of my shop.

[Ashwini Kaul]

I'd go for TS first over any other machine in the shop... Building a Roubo or any massive work-bench on a BT 21 is akin to digging a grave with a table-spoon.

Thats hilarious :)
I did feel close to it many times during milling the lumber for the top!
But in a way I am glad I endured this experience... I will definitely appreciate a nice saw when I finally get one!
Here's the kicker... One of my shoulder planes from LN costs more than my TS... my router table top costs more than my table saw... my DT saw costs close to this TS and very soon my new bench vise will cost more than my TS. If I get a bandsaw first... a nice blade is going to cost more than my TS!! You get the picture.
If I spring for the Tablesaw right now... I can only afford to go upto $2000 - which will get me a nice mid-level TS and will likely mean an upgrade in the next year or two. For the same money I can get a nice mid-level BS... large enough for a while...

[ian maybury]

Seems to me that the most fundamental disadvantage of a bandsaw is that it's hard to get really clean and accurate cross cuts off one. (unless i've been missing something that is)

Drift means that the blade won't always cut precisely in line with the mitre slot, and unless it's a big saw with lots of blade tension and band stiffness the blade will as a result tend to deflect a bit if you try to use the mitre gauge to force a straight cut. (a normal thickness circular saw blade on the other generally will cut to the line of the slot even if it's slightly out of alignment)

Lighter blades will likewise tend to deflect if you try to make a clean up cut with the blade e.g. half buried in the work.

ian

[Ashwini Kaul]

Hi Ashwini,

Welcome to the Creek.

To answer your question, just my opinion, but I think the type of projects you have in mind to build will dictate which tools to obtain.

For me, my main tools are the table saw, jointer, planer, dust collector, SCMS, hollow chisel mortiser as these tools get used on every project.

Band Saw, Drill Press, Shaper after that as my use for these tools is just occasional.

Good luck with your decision and purchase.

PHM

hey Paul,
Thanks!

Since I am weekend hobbyist with a recently arrived infant on our hands, I have no idea what I might make or have the time to accomplish. Usually follow my whims. So no clue. The last 2 finished projects have been a changing station for the baby and a footstool with aromatic cedar for the wife.
Currently I feel I *Need* a nice TS a BS for resawing and curves, and a drill press. But I am able to make up for their lack one way or the other. Except for resawing.... I get by with most other thing... maybe not ideal but I get there.

[Jacob Mac]

I think it depends on what you want to do. I do not believe Sam Maloof ever owned a TS, and he did alright for himself. :D

But if you already have a TS, albeit a weak one, you can always rip to within 1/8 or so on the bandsaw and then take it over to the TS for clean up.

I just sold both my BS and TS. Yesterday, I started on a new project and had to rip a bunch of boards. Since my panel saw kinked, I used a jigsaw to do some ripping and then cleaned the boards up with a #8 plane. It was hardly efficient, but it worked.

I think you will find that with wwing, there is almost always another solution. That is the great thing about this hobby. If you hang out around the projects section of this forum, you will see things that people have built with very modest tools. But they found a way to make it work. I always love looking at those projects.

Either way you go will have advantages and disadvantages. So just figure out what you want to do and how you want to do it.

[Eiji Fuller]

I met Sam and took a tour of his shop before he passed. He had and used at least 2 tablesaws. I enjoy the bandsaw alot more than the tablesaw but I couldn't do without it.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

If you upgrade the table saw, you will be that much further from the bandsaw purchase.
I vote for bandsaw.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I'll vote for the bandsaw. At one point I went some years with a tablesaw, without using it. A bandsaw and some good planes can do a lot. I think when its time to upgrade your tablesaw.. you have a much better chance of finding something like a good deal on a used unisaw or similar than finding a really nice bandsaw.

[Gordon Eyre]

I struggled along for years with a small craftsman table saw. I will never forget the day I bought a Powermatic 66 cabinet saw as any table saw is the most used tool in a woodworking shop. What a difference a good cabinet saw makes. There is no question what I would buy if I were in your position, go for the cabinet saw.

[Clint Olver]

$2000? Why choose one?

Grizzly 513X2 Bandsaw $895
http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Bandsaw-2HP-w-Cast-Iron-Trunnion/G0513X2

Grizzly 1023RLW Cabinet Saw $1175
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-220V-Cabinet-Left-Tilt-Tablesaw/G1023RLW

Both tools perform tremendously well, will last a life-time, and can be found in cabinet and furniture shops all across North America. Several woodworkers, myself included, use these tools and similar to build quality furniture, cabinets, and the like, without the need to upgrade. Are there better tools? Of course! But, these two saws will handle 98% of projects or better, and are a pleasure to use.

C

[Will Blick]

Tool choices really are dependent on what you plan to cut...how much of it, how big is the starting pieces, etc.

IMO, BS has one HUGE draw back, it can only cut-off the diameter of the wheels...so a 14" saw will only cut 14" off a board. What if you have a 36" board and you need to cut it in half?

OTOH, a TS biggest limitation (vs. a BS) is its cut depth...about 3" with a 10" blade. As mentioned, the BS can cut curves..... a big +, if that if you plan to do that kind of work. As you can see, both saws are unique, and only share small common grounds.

If you ned / want to cut curves, its a no brainer. If you need accurate clean cuts that are glue ready, its a no brainer (TS). If you cut thick wood, its a no brainer (BS). If you want to veneer, its a new brainer (BS).

TS takes up a lot of space.... a good power jig saw can cut any length you need, a nice alternative. And a good circular saw with a track system can give you awesome clean cuts...but can be annoying to constantly set up and break down. But the track / circ. saw combo can sometimes replace a table saw...and does not take up space....

confused more now? half the battle is trying to predict what you will be cutting the most of in the future....

[Cary Falk]

$2000? Why choose one?

Grizzly 513X2 Bandsaw $895
http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Bandsaw-2HP-w-Cast-Iron-Trunnion/G0513X2

Grizzly 1023RLW Cabinet Saw $1175
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-220V-Cabinet-Left-Tilt-Tablesaw/G1023RLW

Both tools perform tremendously well, will last a life-time, and can be found in cabinet and furniture shops all across North America. Several woodworkers, myself included, use these tools and similar to build quality furniture, cabinets, and the like, without the need to upgrade. Are there better tools? Of course! But, these two saws will handle 98% of projects or better, and are a pleasure to use.

C

This sounds like a plan to me. I have both and am very happy with them. I think a Table saw is more important than a Bandsaw. I went years without a bandsaw. If had to give up one it would be the BS. You would have to pry the table saw out of my cold dead hands.

[Matt Armstrong]

My vote is strongly in favor of the table saw.

[Dave MacArthur]

I'd get the tablesaw. From your description of your woodworking status, I'd expect small flatwork projects and cabinets/tables to be more likely, which would be produced easier by a tablesaw.

However, I do agree with Clint-- for $2000 you could just have both, both nice tools WELL above what most folks used most of their woodworking life.

Additionally, you need to start looking at CraigsList. Not sure where you live, but...
for $2000 I got a PM66, a 14" Delta bandsaw, a DJ20 8" Delta Planer, a DeWalt 735 planer, a router table., and a 1.5HP Delta dust collector. For $1200 I got a 20" Agazzani bandsaw. For $1600 I got a SawStop 5HP ICS...
you get my point. With a budget of $2000, and some patience, you can really have a nice shop!

I'm about to sell my Delta contractor saw for $500ish w/ 52" biesmeyer, and my PM66 for $1200ish, to someone soon, so there's two more good examples for you ;)

[Tom Rick]

Another vote for the band saw.

I would not have a shop without both the TS and BS.

Now that you see the utility of having a decent tool from your TS experience, by a good quality BS then upgrade the TS in time.
Either way; the upgraded TS or new BS, will be an eye opener for you and a pleasure to use in the shop.

[Ashwini Kaul]

[QUOTE=Tom Rick;1501599]Another vote for the band saw.

I would not have a shop without both the TS and BS.

Now that you see the utility of having a decent tool from your TS experience, by a good quality BS then upgrade the TS in time.

QUOTE]


This is probably the route I am going to proceed.
Although I like the suggestion of getting both machines from Griz... I dont think it would be ideal.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with their valuable suggestions!
Helped clear the fog!

[Scot Ferraro]

Hi Ashwini,

Welcome to the Creek! There has been a lot of good advice given to you and as you can see, there are arguments for both sides. I use both in my shop and I actually got a BS after a TS. However, if I were starting out again I think I would opt for a good BS to start and maybe supplement it with a track saw (Festool, DeWalt, Makita, etc...) for all of the wide rips and cross-cuts and for working with sheet goods. A well-tuned BS is one of the most versatile machines you can own and with a good quality resawing blade likes a Resaw King or Lenox, you can get very smooth cuts that require little clean-up. In fact, since getting my track saw I have started debating the need for my cabinet saw -- do not get me wrong, I love it and it is a very useful tool, but it takes up a huge amount of shop space and I can accomplish everything I need using other tools and methods.

Good luck!

Scot

[Harold Burrell]

$2000? Why choose one?

Grizzly 513X2 Bandsaw $895
http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Bandsaw-2HP-w-Cast-Iron-Trunnion/G0513X2

Grizzly 1023RLW Cabinet Saw $1175
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-220V-Cabinet-Left-Tilt-Tablesaw/G1023RLW

Both tools perform tremendously well, will last a life-time, and can be found in cabinet and furniture shops all across North America. Several woodworkers, myself included, use these tools and similar to build quality furniture, cabinets, and the like, without the need to upgrade. Are there better tools? Of course! But, these two saws will handle 98% of projects or better, and are a pleasure to use.

C


Absolutely. I went quite sometime without a "real" BS (I had a 10" Hitachi :(). And I started with a cheap Craftsman TS. I have since upgraded to a Griz G0661 TS ($795) and a Griz G0513X2 BS ($895). I am VERY happy with both and cannot imagine anything being much better.

[Brian Kincaid]

.....I actually got a BS after a TS. However, if I were starting out again I think I would opt for a good BS to start and maybe supplement it with a track saw (Festool, DeWalt, Makita, etc...) for all of the wide rips and cross-cuts and for working with sheet goods. A well-tuned BS is one of the most versatile machines you can own and with a good quality resawing blade likes a Resaw King or Lenox, you can get very smooth cuts that require little clean-up. In fact, since getting my track saw I have started debating the need for my cabinet saw...

I was in Scot's shoes about a year ago. I sold my TS opting for a tracksaw + BS and I haven't looked back.

Brian

[Dave Houseal]

I would rather have a good TS than a band saw, and do...though I admit the not having a band saw is a huge hole in my shop. Someday soon....someday....lol

If I were in your spot I'd pick up both tools from Grizzly like the others suggested, or stalk craig's list higher end TS and BS that I could fit in the $2k budget.

But....if you are set on going bandsaw first, and on having a new high end machine....here's what I did with my crappy table saw :-)

I had a craftsman TS that was horrible. It burned everything, it would bind and it would try to fall over cutting bigger stuff.
1.) Aligned everything perfectly. It wasn't even really that hard. I just had to figure out how to do it.

2.) Make sure you have 2 good thin kerf blades (1 cross cut, 1 rip)

3.) Find a way to bolt the thing to a plywood base and stack some bricks on it until it doesn't fall over anymore. With your setup that will be a little harder to pull off than mine, but I'm sure you could manage something.

It will still be small, and definitely not what you need with the projects your tackling, but it'll at least be a lot safer. Mine worked MUCH better, but you can't imagine how much difference a good cabinet saw makes until you have one.

[Will Overton]

Aside from the logical answers you've already been given, I have always found that when I divert from my original plan I usually regret it.

Just a thought.

[Tony Bilello]

As someone else mensioned earlier, the table saw is the cornerstone of most general woodworking shops. Any time your stock is heavy enough to move your saw have an accident waiting to happen.

[Van Huskey]

Though I don't want to live without either for flatwork I would say upgrade the TS first. Then in the short term I would look for a good deal on a 14" "cast Delta clone" for a bandsaw.

[jackie gates]

I think it depends on what you want to do. I do not believe Sam Maloof ever owned a TS, and he did alright for himself. :D

But if you already have a TS, albeit a weak one, you can always rip to within 1/8 or so on the bandsaw and then take it over to the TS for clean up.

I just sold both my BS and TS. Yesterday, I started on a new project and had to rip a bunch of boards. Since my panel saw kinked, I used a jigsaw to do some ripping and then cleaned the boards up with a #8 plane. It was hardly efficient, but it worked.

I think you will find that with wwing, there is almost always another solution. That is the great thing about this hobby. If you hang out around the projects section of this forum, you will see things that people have built with very modest tools. But they found a way to make it work. I always love looking at those projects.

Either way you go will have advantages and disadvantages. So just figure out what you want to do and how you want to do it.

:) The above post is GOOD advise. Look to others for info. But look into your own mind and heart for inspriration therein is continment in your work
and your life. As for as to what tools or best or should be first depends on what you want to do. If a man gives you his opinion, it is just one man's opinion, if more men give you their own opinions, it still just more of one man's opinion. IMO you could buy the best of whatever tools someone says should be first. but if you don't have some experience of your own, it maybe wrong for you. When parents buy a first bike for a child it is usually small and has some training wheels on it. Stay within your means and learn, then with knowledge go for the GUSTO. :)Regards:jackie P.S. continue to learn what each tool will do then decide if it is right for you. Cheers and GOOD WOODWORKING. :D:D

[Randall Clark]

The table saw is the foundation of good woodworking. They make some pretty nice hand jigsaws for cutting curves. I have gone a long time without a BS. I got one and don't use it very much. But I had often wished for a stronger more stable TS. Just my very strong opinion.

or

"I feel strongly both ways; I never argue" (Billy Martin, Yankees manager)