Plywood Management

[Jeremy Greiner]

I'm fairly new to wood working, and I'm building a workbench, and I've run into a dilemma.

I'm very short (5 foot even) and have several sheets of 4x8 plywood that I bought and I'm having a difficult time moving them about. It's not so much the weight as it is just very awkward due to their size (though the 3/4'' inch pieces are heavy which doesn't help)

I want to rip one of the sheets in half with my table saw (I have a porter cable contractor saw, so far I love it) but I don't see how I can do this safely.

Since it's late and the neighbors don't think too kindly to drilling and sawing at midnight, I've been pondering this dilemma and thought of a plywood lift jig of sorts.

I've attached a rough sketch of the jig, I was inspired by this other device I found online, however it's over 1,000$ (with fancy hydrolic lifts and so forth) more than what I really need.

I was curious if there are any other shorter wood workers out there and how you manage large plywood sheets and also what people think of my jig or have suggestions?

-jeremy

[Gordon Eyre]

Your jig looks like it would work but I still would not cut a full sheet of plywood on a contractors saw. If you use four sawhorses and set the plywood sheet on them then you can clamp a guide board across it and with a hand circular saw cut it in half so that you can handle it on your table saw

[ian maybury]

It's a bit of a perennial problem, and i suppose in the end the reason why full size panel saws that will support and align a full 8x4 exist - despite the fact that they take up lots of space.

+1 on using a straight edge to guide a hand held circular saw - at least for initial cuts to reduce a sheet to a usable size. Better still a rail guided version like the Festool or one of the others. The Festool has some very nifty features like non slip pads under the rail, and a very clean cutting blade and set up that delivers results to match any table saw.

I've been doing this on carefully positioned battens on the floor (never got around to making trestles), but there was a tip suggesting using a sheet of rigid insulating foam in one of the mags recently which sounded like a good idea. The problem the foam should solve is tipping/movement of the panels coming to the end of a cut, leading to splintering and inaccuracies.

The problem if you try to cut down big sheets on a saw with a smallish table is that you will be left struggling to support (especially on the outfeed side), keep the sheet against the fence and feed the saw at the same time - it leaves lots of scope for getting one or the other wrong, and for damaging especially lighter saws. (you can apply a lot of force with the leverage given by a big sheet of ply - especially a heavy one that you are anyway struggling to support)

Which is why most making more than occasional cuts build and use side and outfeed extension tables for their table saw, or invest in a panel saw - or at least set up effective support arrangements to help them use a hand held circular saw...

ian

[Rich Engelhardt]

I was curious if there are any other shorter wood workers out there and how you manage large plywood sheets and also what people think of my jig or have suggestions?

Well. at an even 6', I'm not really short - but - height and humping around full sheets of ply don't seem to go hand in hand. I had plenty of trouble doing it, as have a lot of other people - tall, short and in between.

Buy one of these:

Stanley Panel Carrier
Lowes or Home Depot should have one for about 7 bucks.

There's also the Gorilla Gripper that runs about $60.

Build one of these:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?referrerid=5960&t=89903

It folds up flat for storage - plus - it's good a horizontal surface for staging things on. I set mine up every time I'm working on something, whether I'll be using the track saw or not.

Make a saw guide for a circular saw - there's tons of plans that show how to do it.
Cut your pieces to approx size and trim them on the TS once they are down to safe and manageble size.
Pick up a Freud blade for the circ saw from Home Depot for around 20 bucks.
Even though I have the Festool track saw, I still resort to the home brew setup for things like B/C ply, pressed wood and MDF at times.

Better yet, if the budget allows, look into the Festool or DeWalt track saw systems - or the EZ guided system.
Any of these will deliver near - euro slider saw cut quality.
With a little extra effor and time, these systems can eliminate the need to trim down the pieces, since they are so accurate and deliver such a superior quality cut.

I had the blade bind on me while trying to cut a full sheet of 4x8 ply using my contractor saw. It was nasty. The ply was stuck under the prawls so I couldn't back the sheet out. The blade was binding so I couldn't continue to feed the sheet.
Worst part was, I was too far from the on/off switch to shut down the saw.
All I could do was force the sheet sideways to really bind the blade and stall the motor so the breaker would trip.

[Frederick Rowe]

I agree with Gordan and Ian's assessment. Virtually all woodworkers find themselves needing to cut a large piece of wood - be it sheet goods or dimensional lumber - ripping, crosscutting, or edge routing.

There is a tipping point where you need to bring the tool to the wood, rather then bring the wood to the tool.

Cutting sheet goods to size is probably the most common instance of this conundrum. In a figurative vacuum, ripping a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood on a table saw would seem simple. When you begin to factor weight, the flexibility of the plywood, the relatively small area of the rip fence available at the start of the cut, and the requirement to exert force in two directions (laterally to keep the sheet in contact with the fence, and forward, to move the sheet through the blade) it becomes quite difficult. It can certainly be done, but if I needed two 2' x 8' pieces of plywood from one sheet of $100 per sheet A-1 Cherry veneer plywood - I wouldn't risk the chance of a misstep by cutting it on my table saw.

Without a doubt, there are cabinet makers who do this every day, and with a large out feed table and in feed support - or just plain skill gained through repetition, it is quite safe.

I use a sheet of rigid insulation on the floor, lay the sheet of plywood on top, and cut to rough size with a circular saw and straight edge leaving about 1/2" excess. Smaller pieces are easily carried to my shop where I cut to precise size on my table saw. With care you can certainly make your cuts to finish dimension with the circular saw - just take the time to make sure your A side of the sheet if face down when using a circular saw to ensure tear out is on the B side. I've had success making the first cut a 1/16" scoring cut, then follow with a full depth cut which can virtually eliminate tear out.

Search SMC and other woodworking sources for examples of circular saw straight edge jigs and sheet good cutting techniques - there are many. Both Felder and MiniMax have videos of sheet good cutting capabilities of their sliding table saws. It'll add some perspective to what exists outside of the U.S. style table saw.

[Will Overton]

When I was younger (and less wise) I cut full sheets of ply on a Craftsman contractor saw. As I got older and had trouble maneuvering full sheets I looked for alternatives. I started using a circular saw with a homemade guide. It worked pretty well, most of the time.

A few years ago I started using a corded track saw. That's the only way to go as you are able to do all your final cuts right on the saw horses, and you are not moving the sheet goods around. The only drawback is the cost.

Currently DeWalt cordless track saws are being sold for a pretty good price. Check out Tools-Plus for starters, but it seems every day someone else has the best price. If you get a saw and track kit there is a $50 rebate from DeWalt.

I picked one of these up about a month ago. My corded version has sat idle since then.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Currently DeWalt cordless track saws are being sold for a pretty good price. Check out Tools-Plus for starters, but it seems every day someone else has the best price. If you get a saw and track kit there is a $50 rebate from DeWalt.

Unless I'm missing something - it looks like the DeWalt rebate is on the kits only.
If you buy the saw - $239.00 and the 59" rail - $79.00 = $318.00
If you buy the 59" kit - $799 - minus $50 rebate = $739.00??

Am I reading that right or missing something?

(@ that price ($239) I'm just about sold on picking one up even though I have a TS55EQ since I believe the DeWalt fits the Festool rails <- is that correct?)

[Jeremy Greiner]

A lot of great information thank you, in my quest to make this operation safe on the table saw I guess I got too focused and didn't think about using other tools or setups.

I've ordered a gorilla gripper I'm going to build one of those sacrificial panel cutting tables if I take some time to set up some good guides and secure them properly I should be able to get the cuts I desire.

Thanks for helping me keep things safe.

-jeremy

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm going to build one of those sacrificial panel cutting tables
One suggestion if you build the Gary Williams table like I did.
Use glue and dowels to put it together.
You can screw it together while the glue sets.
I tagged one of the screws one day cutting a sheet of ply.:o

[glenn bradley]

+1 on circ-saw and shop made guide. I use pieces of 2' x 4' 2" thick white foam insulation that you can pick up at the BORG for about $6 each. I lay the play on the foam on the floor. Laying ply down is a lot easier than picking it up when it is full sized :).

My jig is just some scrap pegboard with a guide strip glued to a wide sheet. Te first cut sets your "zero" mark for setting up. Leave enough room to clamp outside the saw path so you don't bump into things.