Cabinet Construction Question

[Paul Halpern]

Working up a design for my kitchen cabinets. Some of the base cabinets will be on a peninsula. Face frames on the front, and frame-and-panel design for the back and exposed end. And I have a question about the construction.

At the exposed end, there will be sort of a toe kick, mostly so the side panel will match nicely with the front face frame. (I say 'sort of a toe kick" because I doubt anyone will work from the end, and the kick depth will be less than normal.) What I'm wondering about is how to build the case with the decorative end panel (and back side panels) in a way to be structurally sound.

In the past, I built a cabinet where the side panel (just 3/4 plywood) comes down flush to the floor. The cabinet bottom was dadoed into the side. So the side carried the weight of the counter straight down to the floor, and the cabinet bottom rested securely in the dado, as well as the front toe kick.

I've attached a sketch of the area in question, front view showing the side panel and the cabinet bottom. How do I make sure the structure is sound, to carry the counter weight and all that's on it, and secure it to the cabinet bottom? I can't dado -- no room. And, is the frame-and-panel construction sufficient to carry the load?

Some ideas that have come to my inexperienced, amateur mind:

- Have the side panel be strictly decorative and attach it outside a plywood case. So there's a 3/4 plywood side, plus a 3/4 inch frame-and-panel attached to it.

- Use biscuits and glue to attach the side panel to the bottom (I don't like this because then those few biscuits are carrying the load.)

- Build the case from 3/4 material, with the side panel resting on top of the bottom panel, and then apply a decorative frame to the outside made from 1/4 stock.

What's normally done for this type of design?

[Chris Padilla]

Why not dado it and miter the corners where the two sides meet?

[Richard McComas]

what I do for exposed end panels is build my cabinet box as normal and it's sits on a separate toe kick very similar to your drawing. I make the face frame and the end panel and lock miter the corner together Then attach the whole mess to the cabinet box.


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/Bloodwoodendpanel.jpg

[Leo Graywacz]

The applied panel will give you the best of both worlds. You can dado the side and have it go to the floor and give full support to the countertop.

[Nick Lazz]

I think you will find that the bottom, although needs to be attached securely, will not be as important as the sides. Here are some of my ideas that may or may not be suitable to your needs:

1. pocket screws. You could secure these from the bottom of your floor and they would not be visible.

2. Attach a ledger on the bottom of your side panel that screws down into the floor.

3. Attach a ledger on the bottom of your panel that screws up into the floor. This would not be visible.

That's all I got. Hope it helps!

[Paul Halpern]

Thanks everyone, for the replies. I'm leaning toward the applied panel approach -- seems simple and secure. And I like Richard's idea of integrating it with the face frame to start with. Nice. (And the pink wood is cool, too.)

(And thanks to whoever moved this post from the Design Forum, where it languished for a couple days.)

[Joe Chritz]

I do applied ends on almost all cabinets now. I use a very shallow toe kick, usually about the thickness of the applied end. That way the carcass side is sitting on the subbase and giving full support and the end panel just attaches.

I normally attach end panels with a HiPur former hot glue setup. No fasteners and very fast.

Joe

[Richard McComas]

Thanks everyone, for the replies. I'm leaning toward the applied panel approach -- seems simple and secure. And I like Richard's idea of integrating it with the face frame to start with. Nice. (And the pink wood is cool, too.)

(And thanks to whoever moved this post from the Design Forum, where it languished for a couple days.)I took that picture with my old cheap digital camera and it came out pink. The wood is bloodwood and a darker red that the picture show.

[Mark Rakestraw]

+1 for Rich's method. I think having the faceframe mitered to the applied ends looks much nicer and distinguishes your work from boxstore cabinets. I used to use the lock miter bit for this also, but have since switched to a plain mitered corner which I glue up using the blue tape method. The clamping takes a bit longer of course but the machining is easier (Both sides are machined face down on the table so I don't have to reconfigure the powerfeeder to push agains the fence for one side like I did for the lock miter.) The glue joint alone seems to be plenty strong according to my highly calibrated hammer test ;)
Mark

[Sam Layton]

Hi Paul,

There are as many ways to build a cabinet as there are people building them. Here is my way. I pocket screw, and tongue and Groove my cabinets, and build the bases separate. I apply the end panels to the face frame by tongue and groove, and glue. All my ends, are panels, no ply showing on the outside of the cabinet.

Sam

[brian corwin]

Hi Paul,

There are as many ways to build a cabinet as there are people building them. Here is my way. I pocket screw, and tongue and Groove my cabinets, and build the bases separate. I apply the end panels to the face frame by tongue and groove, and glue. All my ends, are panels, no ply showing on the outside of the cabinet.

Sam

In this design is the 3/4 plywood side of your cabinet resting on the edge of the ladder base? IE the toe kick space is only the thickness of the finished panel? Or is that plywood side floating out over the edge of the ladder base?

Thanks
Brian

[Sam Layton]

Brian,

I think I understanding your question. The 3/4" ply side does not rest on the base. My entire cabinet is built and rests on the 3/4" bottom, except for the face frame. The cabinet then rests on the base, allowing for a toe kick. So, the side is supported by the bottom of the cabinet. The finished panel is glued to the face frame and screwed to the 3/4" ply side. The side panel does not support any part of the cabinet.

I hope this answers your question, Sam

[Thomas love]

Heres my take on this, mitered corners .
tom.

[Paul Halpern]

Sam, thanks! A picture really is worth many words, and a half-dozen pictures, even more. Being a novice, I really appreciate this. Not only do your pics explain a lot, but the style I'm building is very close to what you are doing.

Much appreciated.

[brian corwin]

Yup thanks Sam.

I am really excited about this separate base and applied end for cabinets. Ive only done it a few times but in the past I've added integrated toe kicks on my cabinets and it seems as though the machining for this process will be much quicker.


B